Inventor General Discussion

Inventor General Discussion

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Distinguished Contributor
MechMan_
Posts: 2,037
Registered: ‎12-12-2003
Message 11 of 29 (52 Views)

Re:

11-01-2002 01:54 AM in reply to: *Frølund, Claus
Resellers are reps of Autodesk but they aren't the official word of Autodesk so saying that if a reseller lies then it's a lie from Autodesk is a bit far fetched. We've heard numerous reports in this NG about resellers saying lies about Autodesk software. If a reseller says anything about Autodesk that conflicts with Autodesk's official word then we as the Autodesk customers need to inform Autodesk of these misrepresentations. Don't take it out on Autodesk (in this case of a 6 month promise) but take it out on the reseller by reporting them to Autodesk.

Power to the people! (that's us) ;-)

As far as R6 goes I agree with you that it should have stayed in the closet a bit longer. Can't comment on Autodesks testing procedures but I doubt it's as you say.


MechMan
*Dotson, Sean
Message 12 of 29 (52 Views)

Re:

11-01-2002 02:10 AM in reply to: *Frølund, Claus
...so if a buy a car and the dealer tells me it has
lather seats (insert Spaceball jokes here) and it turns out they are
faux-leather then I should blame Chevy/Ford/etc..?  I don't think
so

 

You need to understand the relationship between
VARs and Autodesk.  (read Mechman's post below)


--
Sean Dotson, PE

href="http://www.sdotson.com">http://www.sdotson.com

remove all #s from
email
-----------------------------------------


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
The
way I look at it if an AutoDesk reseller lies than AutoDesk has lied. The
reseller is part of AutoDesk and AutoDesk is responsible for their resellers.
Maybe AutoDesk has responded well but they should have shipped a product that
didn't need much response. What would happen if Boeing sold airplanes that
crashed like R6? Would anyone talk about how well Boeing "responded"? My
theory on why software companies ship bugs is that they test their products in
excellent labs on great machines and then have them Beta tested by real sharp
guys on better than average machines. Then the product is shipped to diverse
guys on diverse machines in diverse conditions. No wonder there are crashes.
The AutoDesk genius geeks ought to visit a bunch of customers at random and
see the conditions of where their releases are going to. I loved 5.3 and
expect I will like 6 better but right now I have to agree with
Claus.
*RMD
Message 13 of 29 (52 Views)

Re: Autodesk! Will you ever learn?

11-01-2002 02:29 AM in reply to: *Frølund, Claus
I can only imagine of many lines of code it takes to make Inventor do what
is does. When you compare that against a couple hundred bugs it don't seem
that bad to me. And AutoCAD seems to do a good job at quickly resolving
these bug issues. You can always expect bugs when a new release comes. If
Autodesk devoted the resources necessary to completely test and debug their
products without our help, so they are 100 percent bug free then you would
complain about the cost of the product. Whenever I get a new release, I load
it on my system a month or so before we roll it out to everyone in the
production environment. That gives me a chance to learn all the new features
and shortcomings and develop training and gives Autodesk a chance to address
and fix the bugs. It works well for me.



The bottom line is Inventor is allowing us to be more efficient. (Read makes
us money). It's the best thing that has happened the mechanical design
industry since the introduction of AutoCAD.



Good job AutoDesk!



"Claus Frølund" wrote in message
news:99F66A06E70ABABE6B1C6E3B38ED089B@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Autodesk! Again you made a big mistake, releasing Inventor R6 in such a
> hurry, to satisfy customers with subscription.
>
> That day our company bought Inventor R4, and signed the subscription deal,
> our reseller promised us that we would get a new release approximately
every
> six month. Now we see that the thruth is something different. That promise
> you can't keep.
>
> Your subscription deals is becoming a block of cement around your legs,
and
> it forces you to send out new releases to the subscribers way to soon with
> a'lot of bugs. My reseller told me not to install R6 until the first
service
> pack. Fine man, cause he knew it was buggy (I counted on it). Autodesk
> itself says nothing to the customers... Very sad.
>
> Every time your releases hit the market to soon it costs huge amounts for
> the companies wordwide. Engineers and other technical staff are probably
> getting fired, cause they can't work with that buggy pile of junk.
>
> Autodesk! If you have to live up to the subscription aggrements, you
should
> hire more programmers, and please wait with the release until the program
is
> virtually bug free.
>
> If I buy a brand new car, I am nearly confident that it can drive. If I
buy
> a brand new Inventor, I am not!
> --
> Best regards
>
> Claus Frolund
> frolundAToncable.dk
> replace AT with @ to reply
>
>
>
*Jeffrey, Dennis
Message 14 of 29 (52 Views)

Re:

11-01-2002 02:56 AM in reply to: *Frølund, Claus
AMEN!!

Dennis

MechMan wrote:

> Resellers are reps of Autodesk but they aren't the official word of
> Autodesk so saying that if a reseller lies then it's a lie from
> Autodesk is a bit far fetched. We've heard numerous reports in this NG
> about resellers saying lies about Autodesk software. If a reseller
> says anything about Autodesk that conflicts with Autodesk's official
> word then we as the Autodesk customers need to inform Autodesk of
> these misrepresentations. Don't take it out on Autodesk (in this case
> of a 6 month promise) but take it out on the reseller by reporting
> them to Autodesk.
>
> Power to the people! (that's us) ;-)
>
> As far as R6 goes I agree with you that it should have stayed in the
> closet a bit longer. Can't comment on Autodesks testing procedures but
> I doubt it's as you say.
>
> MechMan

--
Dennis Jeffrey
CAD Associates - Fort Wayne
Autodesk ASC
(260-432-9695 x 221
*Jeffrey, Dennis
Message 15 of 29 (52 Views)

Re: Autodesk! Will you ever learn?

11-01-2002 03:04 AM in reply to: *Frølund, Claus
Not trying to sound sarcastic, but anyone who has ever written a program knows
that bugs are a way of life. You should know that there are many bugs in Windows
that are still being fixed. It's a wonder any software works as well as they
do.

Software development is WAY different than designing and manufacturing a product
Software is less predicatable because there are so many variations in the way it
will be used, and the hardware on which it will be used. Even purchasing the
exact same "recommended hardware" will not guarantee that software will behave
correctly, because is can be configured and used in an infinite number of ways.

Most people understand that with a physical product.... but there are still
those who will cut off a finger in a power saw... and blame the saw....

I think I started a thread a few days ago suggesting we compare nots and find
out what is the same and what is different with systems that work and systems
that don't. I have some of each, but I'm not blaming the software..... yet.

Dennis

"Claus Frølund" wrote:

> Autodesk! Again you made a big mistake, releasing Inventor R6 in such a
> hurry, to satisfy customers with subscription.
>
> That day our company bought Inventor R4, and signed the subscription deal,
> our reseller promised us that we would get a new release approximately every
> six month. Now we see that the thruth is something different. That promise
> you can't keep.
>
> Your subscription deals is becoming a block of cement around your legs, and
> it forces you to send out new releases to the subscribers way to soon with
> a'lot of bugs. My reseller told me not to install R6 until the first service
> pack. Fine man, cause he knew it was buggy (I counted on it). Autodesk
> itself says nothing to the customers... Very sad.
>
> Every time your releases hit the market to soon it costs huge amounts for
> the companies wordwide. Engineers and other technical staff are probably
> getting fired, cause they can't work with that buggy pile of junk.
>
> Autodesk! If you have to live up to the subscription aggrements, you should
> hire more programmers, and please wait with the release until the program is
> virtually bug free.
>
> If I buy a brand new car, I am nearly confident that it can drive. If I buy
> a brand new Inventor, I am not!
> --
> Best regards
>
> Claus Frolund
> frolundAToncable.dk
> replace AT with @ to reply

--
Dennis Jeffrey
CAD Associates - Fort Wayne
Autodesk ASC
(260-432-9695 x 221
*Keller, Kent
Message 16 of 29 (52 Views)

Re:

11-01-2002 03:48 AM in reply to: *Frølund, Claus
System
Processor - P4 1.5
memory - 640 mb
Plenty of free drive space and swap space set min/max same
Video - Ti4600 nvidia card (leadtech if I remember right)

Software
OS - W2K all Sp's
video driver 4.0.4.1
Office 97

Problems
Initial migration bad... probably server hiccup, but some of the problems it doesn't seem
likely that was the only thing.

Second migration.
General slow response in modeling. Occasional crashes in File Open dialog (could be
related to my use of FileBX tray tool...turned it off and crashes appeared to stop... but
again Inventor is the only program that has a problem with this tool.)

Attempt to save after editing, got errors to the effect of "Error(s) detected while
writing segment PmDCSegment in database. Errors while saving object of type
RDxOccurrence. Internal error in persistence operation (Segment loading is not supported
within other persistence operations) The database in XYZ.ipt could not be saved.

I saw no obvious way to fix it and save the problem... Have since gone back to r5.3 and
only playing and drooling in R6 as time permits. 8^)

--
Kent
Member of the Autodesk Discussion Forum Moderator Program


"Dennis Jeffrey" wrote in message

> I think I started a thread a few days ago suggesting we compare nots and find
> out what is the same and what is different with systems that work and systems
> that don't.
*Radlin, David
Message 17 of 29 (52 Views)

Re:

11-01-2002 03:51 AM in reply to: *Frølund, Claus
Not to be sarcastic.... if I were a VAR I would attempt to put this sort of
spin on things.

But as a business owner who uses the product, I am much less forgiving for
errors when they cost me money on an ongoing basis.

While I understand zero defects to be unattainable I do expect it to be the
constant goal and root of all priorities.

Dave

Spoken like a true
"Dennis Jeffrey" wrote in message
news:3DC2D033.B42DD3E6@cadassociates.com...
> Not trying to sound sarcastic, but anyone who has ever written a program
knows
> that bugs are a way of life. You should know that there are many bugs in
Windows
> that are still being fixed. It's a wonder any software works as well as
they
> do.
>
> Software development is WAY different than designing and manufacturing a
product
> Software is less predicatable because there are so many variations in the
way it
> will be used, and the hardware on which it will be used. Even purchasing
the
> exact same "recommended hardware" will not guarantee that software will
behave
> correctly, because is can be configured and used in an infinite number of
ways.
>
> Most people understand that with a physical product.... but there are
still
> those who will cut off a finger in a power saw... and blame the saw....
>
> I think I started a thread a few days ago suggesting we compare nots and
find
> out what is the same and what is different with systems that work and
systems
> that don't. I have some of each, but I'm not blaming the software.....
yet.
>
> Dennis
>
> "Claus Frølund" wrote:
>
> > Autodesk! Again you made a big mistake, releasing Inventor R6 in such a
> > hurry, to satisfy customers with subscription.
> >
> > That day our company bought Inventor R4, and signed the subscription
deal,
> > our reseller promised us that we would get a new release approximately
every
> > six month. Now we see that the thruth is something different. That
promise
> > you can't keep.
> >
> > Your subscription deals is becoming a block of cement around your legs,
and
> > it forces you to send out new releases to the subscribers way to soon
with
> > a'lot of bugs. My reseller told me not to install R6 until the first
service
> > pack. Fine man, cause he knew it was buggy (I counted on it). Autodesk
> > itself says nothing to the customers... Very sad.
> >
> > Every time your releases hit the market to soon it costs huge amounts
for
> > the companies wordwide. Engineers and other technical staff are probably
> > getting fired, cause they can't work with that buggy pile of junk.
> >
> > Autodesk! If you have to live up to the subscription aggrements, you
should
> > hire more programmers, and please wait with the release until the
program is
> > virtually bug free.
> >
> > If I buy a brand new car, I am nearly confident that it can drive. If I
buy
> > a brand new Inventor, I am not!
> > --
> > Best regards
> >
> > Claus Frolund
> > frolundAToncable.dk
> > replace AT with @ to reply
>
> --
> Dennis Jeffrey
> CAD Associates - Fort Wayne
> Autodesk ASC
> (260-432-9695 x 221
>
>
*Shelton, Joseph
Message 18 of 29 (52 Views)

Re: Autodesk! Will you ever learn?

11-01-2002 04:55 AM in reply to: *Frølund, Claus
To be honest who really cares how fast they come out with new releases?
All I 'd like to see is Inventor perform basic functions like I was told it
would do when
I bought it. R4

It would be nice to be able to accurately write out AutoCAD *.dwg's without
having to proof everyone of them because something is always wrong! In the
real world I have to provide
accurate dwg's to my customers. For some reason this seems to be the
industry standard
format, or has Autodesk forgot how many seats of Autocad there is out there?
It would be nice to have the basic 2D dimensioning functions that I had
AcadR12.
It would be nice to not be told every 6 months that my NEW computer needs to
be
upgraded AGAIN because AutoDesk's new software requires it. (Earlier Post
ticked me off stating
that the ones who are having problems are running on old junk that needs to
be replaced anyway.)

I guess I wish they would just fix what is wrong and leave the bells and
whistles alone. MOST
of us have to produce or we're out of business.
--
Joseph Shelton
Partner
Mechtronic Technology LLC



"Claus Frølund" wrote in message
news:99F66A06E70ABABE6B1C6E3B38ED089B@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Autodesk! Again you made a big mistake, releasing Inventor R6 in such a
> hurry, to satisfy customers with subscription.
>
> That day our company bought Inventor R4, and signed the subscription deal,
> our reseller promised us that we would get a new release approximately
every
> six month. Now we see that the thruth is something different. That promise
> you can't keep.
>
> Your subscription deals is becoming a block of cement around your legs,
and
> it forces you to send out new releases to the subscribers way to soon with
> a'lot of bugs. My reseller told me not to install R6 until the first
service
> pack. Fine man, cause he knew it was buggy (I counted on it). Autodesk
> itself says nothing to the customers... Very sad.
>
> Every time your releases hit the market to soon it costs huge amounts for
> the companies wordwide. Engineers and other technical staff are probably
> getting fired, cause they can't work with that buggy pile of junk.
>
> Autodesk! If you have to live up to the subscription aggrements, you
should
> hire more programmers, and please wait with the release until the program
is
> virtually bug free.
>
> If I buy a brand new car, I am nearly confident that it can drive. If I
buy
> a brand new Inventor, I am not!
> --
> Best regards
>
> Claus Frolund
> frolundAToncable.dk
> replace AT with @ to reply
>
>
>
*Jeffrey, Dennis
Message 19 of 29 (52 Views)

Re:

11-01-2002 05:31 AM in reply to: *Frølund, Claus
David, although I'm a VAR, I don't spin.... ask anyone on the group who knows
me... I tend to call a spade a spade....

I understand your pain... but problems cost me money also.... I've also been
programming for 28 + years, and I understand the programmers pain.

Dennis


David Radlin wrote:

> Not to be sarcastic.... if I were a VAR I would attempt to put this sort of
> spin on things.
>
> But as a business owner who uses the product, I am much less forgiving for
> errors when they cost me money on an ongoing basis.
>
> While I understand zero defects to be unattainable I do expect it to be the
> constant goal and root of all priorities.
>
> Dave
>
> Spoken like a true
> "Dennis Jeffrey" wrote in message
> news:3DC2D033.B42DD3E6@cadassociates.com...
> > Not trying to sound sarcastic, but anyone who has ever written a program
> knows
> > that bugs are a way of life. You should know that there are many bugs in
> Windows
> > that are still being fixed. It's a wonder any software works as well as
> they
> > do.
> >
> > Software development is WAY different than designing and manufacturing a
> product
> > Software is less predicatable because there are so many variations in the
> way it
> > will be used, and the hardware on which it will be used. Even purchasing
> the
> > exact same "recommended hardware" will not guarantee that software will
> behave
> > correctly, because is can be configured and used in an infinite number of
> ways.
> >
> > Most people understand that with a physical product.... but there are
> still
> > those who will cut off a finger in a power saw... and blame the saw....
> >
> > I think I started a thread a few days ago suggesting we compare nots and
> find
> > out what is the same and what is different with systems that work and
> systems
> > that don't. I have some of each, but I'm not blaming the software.....
> yet.
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> > "Claus Frølund" wrote:
> >
> > > Autodesk! Again you made a big mistake, releasing Inventor R6 in such a
> > > hurry, to satisfy customers with subscription.
> > >
> > > That day our company bought Inventor R4, and signed the subscription
> deal,
> > > our reseller promised us that we would get a new release approximately
> every
> > > six month. Now we see that the thruth is something different. That
> promise
> > > you can't keep.
> > >
> > > Your subscription deals is becoming a block of cement around your legs,
> and
> > > it forces you to send out new releases to the subscribers way to soon
> with
> > > a'lot of bugs. My reseller told me not to install R6 until the first
> service
> > > pack. Fine man, cause he knew it was buggy (I counted on it). Autodesk
> > > itself says nothing to the customers... Very sad.
> > >
> > > Every time your releases hit the market to soon it costs huge amounts
> for
> > > the companies wordwide. Engineers and other technical staff are probably
> > > getting fired, cause they can't work with that buggy pile of junk.
> > >
> > > Autodesk! If you have to live up to the subscription aggrements, you
> should
> > > hire more programmers, and please wait with the release until the
> program is
> > > virtually bug free.
> > >
> > > If I buy a brand new car, I am nearly confident that it can drive. If I
> buy
> > > a brand new Inventor, I am not!
> > > --
> > > Best regards
> > >
> > > Claus Frolund
> > > frolundAToncable.dk
> > > replace AT with @ to reply
> >
> > --
> > Dennis Jeffrey
> > CAD Associates - Fort Wayne
> > Autodesk ASC
> > (260-432-9695 x 221
> >
> >

--
Dennis Jeffrey
CAD Associates - Fort Wayne
Autodesk ASC
(260-432-9695 x 221
*Howard, Jeff
Message 20 of 29 (52 Views)

Re:

11-01-2002 05:42 AM in reply to: *Frølund, Claus
I understand the problems, and I understand that quality costs and it
ultimately comes down to who's energy / money it's going to be; Adesk's or
the users'.

Rhino and Pro are both undergoing major rewrites, not conventional upgrades.
I'll be interested to see how they fare on release.

Jeff
====================


"Dennis Jeffrey" wrote in message
news:3DC2F2CA.89D1326F@cadassociates.com...
David, although I'm a VAR, I don't spin.... ask anyone on the group who knows
me... I tend to call a spade a spade....

I understand your pain... but problems cost me money also.... I've also been
programming for 28 + years, and I understand the programmers pain.

Dennis
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