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Adesk and the Competition

36 REPLIES 36
Reply
Message 1 of 37
Anonymous
904 Views, 36 Replies

Adesk and the Competition

Group,
Most of you know the name of Adesk's strongest competitor, and that they
were releasing their 2003 version recently.
I'm randomly monitoring their NG and there is a big flame going on about the
numerous bugs and instabilities of the new package. Although the wording is
a bit more rude over there, the common sense is the same as here: The new
release is inmature, and not good for productive use before the first
servicepacks.
It is obvious that the competitive race for being the first to release the
newest version in both companies leads to serious quality issues
In both NG more and more users are demanding better stability and quality of
the package, over a faster release cycle.

So I, too, put my vote here for this demand, and ask all of you to do the
same.

Maybe Adesk is listening.

Regards,
--
Leo Laimer
Maschinen- und Fertigungstechnik
A-4820 Bad Ischl - Austria
36 REPLIES 36
Message 21 of 37
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

You could choose to wait for the big one while some
could still benefit from the small ones.

 

Dave


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
I
was just going to type the same thing. On top of that each service pack needs
testing time before deployment. Fewer SP means getting some more time to test
them before deployment. Every patch they send out also has to be deployed
across the company user base. For a large company this can be quite a bit of
work. My IS department would kill me if we ran into the number of SP that SW
typically has. I wouldn't want the quick hotfix approach of heres a bug, fix
it and quickly throw out a patch.
Message 22 of 37
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Red herring....

Dave

"Sean Dotson" wrote in message
news:276099780228E9E429B74EBB0669B595@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> "I know you run the chance of something else "breaking" with a service
pack
> but in my opinion it is worth the risk."
>
> So in your opinion it would be "worth the risk" to get a SP to fix the
Excel
> Linking Issue (for example) even if parametrics stopped working all
> together? I don't think this would be a very popular view.
>
> --
> Sean Dotson, PE
> http://www.sdotson.com
> ...sleep is for the weak..
> -----------------------------------------
> "Eric Zirkle" <@> wrote in message
> news:4CAB2AFACE45D233893ED3245ED10D25@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > What's the difference between 15 small service packs and 2 or 3 large
> > service packs. The difference is they release them as the problems get
> > found and fixed instead of sitting on the solution until there is a
large
> > enough amount to issue a SP. I know you run the chance of something else
> > "breaking" with a service pack but in my opinion it is worth the risk.
> >
> > "Purge" wrote in message
> > news:2B9062CFA565EE6E980AF0D677C5E751@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > But how many SP's do they need to have the product be stable? A lot. I
> > > personally have not seen any Autodesk SP's go pass 4. Correctly me if
I
> am
>
>
Message 23 of 37
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

My preference as well.

=======================

"Leo Laimer" wrote in message
news:BDE3CBBA6D5546C5CC028C906CF5831F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
..................
better stability and quality of the package, over a faster release cycle.
................
Message 24 of 37
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

This is not a red herring Dave. Exaggeration for effect possibly but not a
red herring.

Red Herring: a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to
divert attention from the original issue.

I was addressing a point in his argument. In my opinion it is not
acceptable for a SP to fix one issue and break another. I don't see how
that's irrelevant.

The march must be forward only. If that means only 1 or 2 big SPs then so
be it. These are my opinions. If you disagree that is your right. However
I'd get my fallacies straight before casting stones.

--
Sean Dotson, PE
http://www.sdotson.com
...sleep is for the weak..
-----------------------------------------
"David Radlin" wrote in message
news:DA453CFF836743B49944CFEC1122BA34@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Red herring....
>
> Dave
>
> "Sean Dotson" wrote in message
> news:276099780228E9E429B74EBB0669B595@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > "I know you run the chance of something else "breaking" with a service
> pack
> > but in my opinion it is worth the risk."
> >
> > So in your opinion it would be "worth the risk" to get a SP to fix the
> Excel
> > Linking Issue (for example) even if parametrics stopped working all
> > together? I don't think this would be a very popular view.
> >
> > --
> > Sean Dotson, PE
> > http://www.sdotson.com
> > ...sleep is for the weak..
> > -----------------------------------------
> > "Eric Zirkle" <@> wrote in message
> > news:4CAB2AFACE45D233893ED3245ED10D25@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > What's the difference between 15 small service packs and 2 or 3 large
> > > service packs. The difference is they release them as the problems
get
> > > found and fixed instead of sitting on the solution until there is a
> large
> > > enough amount to issue a SP. I know you run the chance of something
else
> > > "breaking" with a service pack but in my opinion it is worth the risk.
> > >
> > > "Purge" wrote in message
> > > news:2B9062CFA565EE6E980AF0D677C5E751@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > But how many SP's do they need to have the product be stable? A lot.
I
> > > > personally have not seen any Autodesk SP's go pass 4. Correctly me
if
> I
> > am
> >
> >
>
>
Message 25 of 37
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

"Exaggeration for effect..." - a fallacy none the less.

Dave

"Sean Dotson" wrote in message
news:B4D8DAFCC62FAD9CC99AE9F8B88A3A37@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> This is not a red herring Dave. Exaggeration for effect possibly but not
a
> red herring.
>
> Red Herring: a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order
to
> divert attention from the original issue.
>
> I was addressing a point in his argument. In my opinion it is not
> acceptable for a SP to fix one issue and break another. I don't see how
> that's irrelevant.
>
> The march must be forward only. If that means only 1 or 2 big SPs then so
> be it. These are my opinions. If you disagree that is your right.
However
> I'd get my fallacies straight before casting stones.
>
> --
> Sean Dotson, PE
> http://www.sdotson.com
> ...sleep is for the weak..
> -----------------------------------------
> "David Radlin" wrote in message
> news:DA453CFF836743B49944CFEC1122BA34@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > Red herring....
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > "Sean Dotson" wrote in message
> > news:276099780228E9E429B74EBB0669B595@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > "I know you run the chance of something else "breaking" with a service
> > pack
> > > but in my opinion it is worth the risk."
> > >
> > > So in your opinion it would be "worth the risk" to get a SP to fix the
> > Excel
> > > Linking Issue (for example) even if parametrics stopped working all
> > > together? I don't think this would be a very popular view.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Sean Dotson, PE
> > > http://www.sdotson.com
> > > ...sleep is for the weak..
> > > -----------------------------------------
> > > "Eric Zirkle" <@> wrote in message
> > > news:4CAB2AFACE45D233893ED3245ED10D25@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > What's the difference between 15 small service packs and 2 or 3
large
> > > > service packs. The difference is they release them as the problems
> get
> > > > found and fixed instead of sitting on the solution until there is a
> > large
> > > > enough amount to issue a SP. I know you run the chance of something
> else
> > > > "breaking" with a service pack but in my opinion it is worth the
risk.
> > > >
> > > > "Purge" wrote in message
> > > > news:2B9062CFA565EE6E980AF0D677C5E751@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > But how many SP's do they need to have the product be stable? A
lot.
> I
> > > > > personally have not seen any Autodesk SP's go pass 4. Correctly me
> if
> > I
> > > am
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 26 of 37
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

actually no...

fal·la·cy Pronunciation Key (fl-s)
n. pl. fal·la·cies
1.. A false notion.
2.. A statement or an argument based on a false or invalid inference.
3.. Incorrectness of reasoning or belief; erroneousness.


--
Sean Dotson, PE
http://www.sdotson.com
...sleep is for the weak..
-----------------------------------------
"David Radlin" wrote in message
news:84D28EA9E8FE2FDF3FF9053822547A4B@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> "Exaggeration for effect..." - a fallacy none the less.
>
> Dave
>
> "Sean Dotson" wrote in message
> news:B4D8DAFCC62FAD9CC99AE9F8B88A3A37@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > This is not a red herring Dave. Exaggeration for effect possibly but
not
> a
> > red herring.
> >
> > Red Herring: a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in
order
> to
> > divert attention from the original issue.
> >
> > I was addressing a point in his argument. In my opinion it is not
> > acceptable for a SP to fix one issue and break another. I don't see how
> > that's irrelevant.
> >
> > The march must be forward only. If that means only 1 or 2 big SPs then
so
> > be it. These are my opinions. If you disagree that is your right.
> However
> > I'd get my fallacies straight before casting stones.
> >
> > --
> > Sean Dotson, PE
> > http://www.sdotson.com
> > ...sleep is for the weak..
> > -----------------------------------------
> > "David Radlin" wrote in message
> > news:DA453CFF836743B49944CFEC1122BA34@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > Red herring....
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > > "Sean Dotson" wrote in message
> > > news:276099780228E9E429B74EBB0669B595@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > "I know you run the chance of something else "breaking" with a
service
> > > pack
> > > > but in my opinion it is worth the risk."
> > > >
> > > > So in your opinion it would be "worth the risk" to get a SP to fix
the
> > > Excel
> > > > Linking Issue (for example) even if parametrics stopped working all
> > > > together? I don't think this would be a very popular view.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Sean Dotson, PE
> > > > http://www.sdotson.com
> > > > ...sleep is for the weak..
> > > > -----------------------------------------
> > > > "Eric Zirkle" <@> wrote in message
> > > > news:4CAB2AFACE45D233893ED3245ED10D25@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > What's the difference between 15 small service packs and 2 or 3
> large
> > > > > service packs. The difference is they release them as the
problems
> > get
> > > > > found and fixed instead of sitting on the solution until there is
a
> > > large
> > > > > enough amount to issue a SP. I know you run the chance of
something
> > else
> > > > > "breaking" with a service pack but in my opinion it is worth the
> risk.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Purge" wrote in message
> > > > > news:2B9062CFA565EE6E980AF0D677C5E751@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > > But how many SP's do they need to have the product be stable? A
> lot.
> > I
> > > > > > personally have not seen any Autodesk SP's go pass 4. Correctly
me
> > if
> > > I
> > > > am
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 27 of 37
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Thanks for proving my point...

Dave

"Sean Dotson" wrote in message
news:35DFEA2B4214DE060D621617F900FE8A@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> actually no...
>
> fal·la·cy Pronunciation Key (fl-s)
> n. pl. fal·la·cies
> 1.. A false notion.
> 2.. A statement or an argument based on a false or invalid inference.
> 3.. Incorrectness of reasoning or belief; erroneousness.
>
>
> --
> Sean Dotson, PE
> http://www.sdotson.com
> ...sleep is for the weak..
> -----------------------------------------
> "David Radlin" wrote in message
> news:84D28EA9E8FE2FDF3FF9053822547A4B@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > "Exaggeration for effect..." - a fallacy none the less.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > "Sean Dotson" wrote in message
> > news:B4D8DAFCC62FAD9CC99AE9F8B88A3A37@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > This is not a red herring Dave. Exaggeration for effect possibly but
> not
> > a
> > > red herring.
> > >
> > > Red Herring: a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in
> order
> > to
> > > divert attention from the original issue.
> > >
> > > I was addressing a point in his argument. In my opinion it is not
> > > acceptable for a SP to fix one issue and break another. I don't see
how
> > > that's irrelevant.
> > >
> > > The march must be forward only. If that means only 1 or 2 big SPs
then
> so
> > > be it. These are my opinions. If you disagree that is your right.
> > However
> > > I'd get my fallacies straight before casting stones.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Sean Dotson, PE
> > > http://www.sdotson.com
> > > ...sleep is for the weak..
> > > -----------------------------------------
> > > "David Radlin" wrote in message
> > > news:DA453CFF836743B49944CFEC1122BA34@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > Red herring....
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> > > >
> > > > "Sean Dotson" wrote in message
> > > > news:276099780228E9E429B74EBB0669B595@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > "I know you run the chance of something else "breaking" with a
> service
> > > > pack
> > > > > but in my opinion it is worth the risk."
> > > > >
> > > > > So in your opinion it would be "worth the risk" to get a SP to fix
> the
> > > > Excel
> > > > > Linking Issue (for example) even if parametrics stopped working
all
> > > > > together? I don't think this would be a very popular view.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Sean Dotson, PE
> > > > > http://www.sdotson.com
> > > > > ...sleep is for the weak..
> > > > > -----------------------------------------
> > > > > "Eric Zirkle" <@> wrote in message
> > > > > news:4CAB2AFACE45D233893ED3245ED10D25@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > > What's the difference between 15 small service packs and 2 or 3
> > large
> > > > > > service packs. The difference is they release them as the
> problems
> > > get
> > > > > > found and fixed instead of sitting on the solution until there
is
> a
> > > > large
> > > > > > enough amount to issue a SP. I know you run the chance of
> something
> > > else
> > > > > > "breaking" with a service pack but in my opinion it is worth the
> > risk.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Purge" wrote in message
> > > > > > news:2B9062CFA565EE6E980AF0D677C5E751@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > > > But how many SP's do they need to have the product be stable?
A
> > lot.
> > > I
> > > > > > > personally have not seen any Autodesk SP's go pass 4.
Correctly
> me
> > > if
> > > > I
> > > > > am
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


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Message 28 of 37
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Dave I'm not sure why you are being so combative with me lately but I'm
going to do something I normally don't and let this one die. It's really
not worth arguing about.

(and don't take this a victory on your part, I don't think I proved your
point at all)

--
Sean Dotson, PE
http://www.sdotson.com
...sleep is for the weak..
-----------------------------------------
"David Radlin" wrote in message
news:FD7FFAF35EF7ACA9476172B606D2D5EA@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Thanks for proving my point...
>
> Dave
>
> "Sean Dotson" wrote in message
> news:35DFEA2B4214DE060D621617F900FE8A@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > actually no...
> >
> > fal·la·cy Pronunciation Key (fl-s)
> > n. pl. fal·la·cies
> > 1.. A false notion.
> > 2.. A statement or an argument based on a false or invalid inference.
> > 3.. Incorrectness of reasoning or belief; erroneousness.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sean Dotson, PE
> > http://www.sdotson.com
> > ...sleep is for the weak..
> > -----------------------------------------
> > "David Radlin" wrote in message
> > news:84D28EA9E8FE2FDF3FF9053822547A4B@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > "Exaggeration for effect..." - a fallacy none the less.
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > > "Sean Dotson" wrote in message
> > > news:B4D8DAFCC62FAD9CC99AE9F8B88A3A37@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > This is not a red herring Dave. Exaggeration for effect possibly
but
> > not
> > > a
> > > > red herring.
> > > >
> > > > Red Herring: a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in
> > order
> > > to
> > > > divert attention from the original issue.
> > > >
> > > > I was addressing a point in his argument. In my opinion it is not
> > > > acceptable for a SP to fix one issue and break another. I don't see
> how
> > > > that's irrelevant.
> > > >
> > > > The march must be forward only. If that means only 1 or 2 big SPs
> then
> > so
> > > > be it. These are my opinions. If you disagree that is your right.
> > > However
> > > > I'd get my fallacies straight before casting stones.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Sean Dotson, PE
> > > > http://www.sdotson.com
> > > > ...sleep is for the weak..
> > > > -----------------------------------------
> > > > "David Radlin" wrote in message
> > > > news:DA453CFF836743B49944CFEC1122BA34@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > Red herring....
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave
> > > > >
> > > > > "Sean Dotson" wrote in message
> > > > > news:276099780228E9E429B74EBB0669B595@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > > "I know you run the chance of something else "breaking" with a
> > service
> > > > > pack
> > > > > > but in my opinion it is worth the risk."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So in your opinion it would be "worth the risk" to get a SP to
fix
> > the
> > > > > Excel
> > > > > > Linking Issue (for example) even if parametrics stopped working
> all
> > > > > > together? I don't think this would be a very popular view.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Sean Dotson, PE
> > > > > > http://www.sdotson.com
> > > > > > ...sleep is for the weak..
> > > > > > -----------------------------------------
> > > > > > "Eric Zirkle" <@> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:4CAB2AFACE45D233893ED3245ED10D25@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > > > What's the difference between 15 small service packs and 2 or
3
> > > large
> > > > > > > service packs. The difference is they release them as the
> > problems
> > > > get
> > > > > > > found and fixed instead of sitting on the solution until there
> is
> > a
> > > > > large
> > > > > > > enough amount to issue a SP. I know you run the chance of
> > something
> > > > else
> > > > > > > "breaking" with a service pack but in my opinion it is worth
the
> > > risk.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Purge" wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:2B9062CFA565EE6E980AF0D677C5E751@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > > > > But how many SP's do they need to have the product be
stable?
> A
> > > lot.
> > > > I
> > > > > > > > personally have not seen any Autodesk SP's go pass 4.
> Correctly
> > me
> > > > if
> > > > > I
> > > > > > am
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 29 of 37
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

My thinking is there is there would be a SMALL risk in the SP causing
problems. Yes, I would be willing to take a SMALL risk to get some of my
problems fixed sooner.

"Sean Dotson" wrote in message
news:276099780228E9E429B74EBB0669B595@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> "I know you run the chance of something else "breaking" with a service
pack
> but in my opinion it is worth the risk."
>
> So in your opinion it would be "worth the risk" to get a SP to fix the
Excel
> Linking Issue (for example) even if parametrics stopped working all
> together? I don't think this would be a very popular view.
>
> --
> Sean Dotson, PE
> http://www.sdotson.com
> ...sleep is for the weak..
> -----------------------------------------
> "Eric Zirkle" <@> wrote in message
> news:4CAB2AFACE45D233893ED3245ED10D25@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > What's the difference between 15 small service packs and 2 or 3 large
> > service packs. The difference is they release them as the problems get
> > found and fixed instead of sitting on the solution until there is a
large
> > enough amount to issue a SP. I know you run the chance of something else
> > "breaking" with a service pack but in my opinion it is worth the risk.
> >
> > "Purge" wrote in message
> > news:2B9062CFA565EE6E980AF0D677C5E751@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > But how many SP's do they need to have the product be stable? A lot. I
> > > personally have not seen any Autodesk SP's go pass 4. Correctly me if
I
> am
>
>
Message 30 of 37
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Just having fun with you Sean, don't take it personally... that would be a
shame (vbg).

Dave

"Sean Dotson" wrote in message
news:07F119829832E2B869C1FE5B49DEF5A3@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Dave I'm not sure why you are being so combative with me lately but I'm
> going to do something I normally don't and let this one die. It's really
> not worth arguing about.
>
> (and don't take this a victory on your part, I don't think I proved your
> point at all)
>
> --
> Sean Dotson, PE
> http://www.sdotson.com
> ...sleep is for the weak..
> -----------------------------------------
> "David Radlin" wrote in message
> news:FD7FFAF35EF7ACA9476172B606D2D5EA@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > Thanks for proving my point...
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > "Sean Dotson" wrote in message
> > news:35DFEA2B4214DE060D621617F900FE8A@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > actually no...
> > >
> > > fal·la·cy Pronunciation Key (fl-s)
> > > n. pl. fal·la·cies
> > > 1.. A false notion.
> > > 2.. A statement or an argument based on a false or invalid
inference.
> > > 3.. Incorrectness of reasoning or belief; erroneousness.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Sean Dotson, PE
> > > http://www.sdotson.com
> > > ...sleep is for the weak..
> > > -----------------------------------------
> > > "David Radlin" wrote in message
> > > news:84D28EA9E8FE2FDF3FF9053822547A4B@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > "Exaggeration for effect..." - a fallacy none the less.
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> > > >
> > > > "Sean Dotson" wrote in message
> > > > news:B4D8DAFCC62FAD9CC99AE9F8B88A3A37@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > This is not a red herring Dave. Exaggeration for effect possibly
> but
> > > not
> > > > a
> > > > > red herring.
> > > > >
> > > > > Red Herring: a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented
in
> > > order
> > > > to
> > > > > divert attention from the original issue.
> > > > >
> > > > > I was addressing a point in his argument. In my opinion it is not
> > > > > acceptable for a SP to fix one issue and break another. I don't
see
> > how
> > > > > that's irrelevant.
> > > > >
> > > > > The march must be forward only. If that means only 1 or 2 big SPs
> > then
> > > so
> > > > > be it. These are my opinions. If you disagree that is your
right.
> > > > However
> > > > > I'd get my fallacies straight before casting stones.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Sean Dotson, PE
> > > > > http://www.sdotson.com
> > > > > ...sleep is for the weak..
> > > > > -----------------------------------------
> > > > > "David Radlin" wrote in message
> > > > > news:DA453CFF836743B49944CFEC1122BA34@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > > Red herring....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dave
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Sean Dotson" wrote in message
> > > > > > news:276099780228E9E429B74EBB0669B595@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > > > "I know you run the chance of something else "breaking" with a
> > > service
> > > > > > pack
> > > > > > > but in my opinion it is worth the risk."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So in your opinion it would be "worth the risk" to get a SP to
> fix
> > > the
> > > > > > Excel
> > > > > > > Linking Issue (for example) even if parametrics stopped
working
> > all
> > > > > > > together? I don't think this would be a very popular view.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Sean Dotson, PE
> > > > > > > http://www.sdotson.com
> > > > > > > ...sleep is for the weak..
> > > > > > > -----------------------------------------
> > > > > > > "Eric Zirkle" <@> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:4CAB2AFACE45D233893ED3245ED10D25@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > > > > What's the difference between 15 small service packs and 2
or
> 3
> > > > large
> > > > > > > > service packs. The difference is they release them as the
> > > problems
> > > > > get
> > > > > > > > found and fixed instead of sitting on the solution until
there
> > is
> > > a
> > > > > > large
> > > > > > > > enough amount to issue a SP. I know you run the chance of
> > > something
> > > > > else
> > > > > > > > "breaking" with a service pack but in my opinion it is worth
> the
> > > > risk.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Purge" wrote in message
> > > > > > > > news:2B9062CFA565EE6E980AF0D677C5E751@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > > > > > But how many SP's do they need to have the product be
> stable?
> > A
> > > > lot.
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > personally have not seen any Autodesk SP's go pass 4.
> > Correctly
> > > me
> > > > > if
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > am
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > ----
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > ----
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > ----
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > ----
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 31 of 37
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Precisely.

Dave

"Eric Zirkle" <@> wrote in message
news:A92DAB4CFC2B6D188AB9CD2E59726E0B@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> My thinking is there is there would be a SMALL risk in the SP causing
> problems. Yes, I would be willing to take a SMALL risk to get some of my
> problems fixed sooner.
>
> "Sean Dotson" wrote in message
> news:276099780228E9E429B74EBB0669B595@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > "I know you run the chance of something else "breaking" with a service
> pack
> > but in my opinion it is worth the risk."
> >
> > So in your opinion it would be "worth the risk" to get a SP to fix the
> Excel
> > Linking Issue (for example) even if parametrics stopped working all
> > together? I don't think this would be a very popular view.
> >
> > --
> > Sean Dotson, PE
> > http://www.sdotson.com
> > ...sleep is for the weak..
> > -----------------------------------------
> > "Eric Zirkle" <@> wrote in message
> > news:4CAB2AFACE45D233893ED3245ED10D25@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > What's the difference between 15 small service packs and 2 or 3 large
> > > service packs. The difference is they release them as the problems
get
> > > found and fixed instead of sitting on the solution until there is a
> large
> > > enough amount to issue a SP. I know you run the chance of something
else
> > > "breaking" with a service pack but in my opinion it is worth the risk.
> > >
> > > "Purge" wrote in message
> > > news:2B9062CFA565EE6E980AF0D677C5E751@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > But how many SP's do they need to have the product be stable? A lot.
I
> > > > personally have not seen any Autodesk SP's go pass 4. Correctly me
if
> I
> > am
> >
> >
>
>
Message 32 of 37
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

no problem...truce..at least till the next thread

--
Sean Dotson, PE
http://www.sdotson.com
...sleep is for the weak..
-----------------------------------------
"David Radlin" wrote in message
news:CB488E8D6492DED956F627503F85EA84@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Just having fun with you Sean, don't take it personally... that would be a
> shame (vbg).
>
> Dave
>
> "Sean Dotson" wrote in message
> news:07F119829832E2B869C1FE5B49DEF5A3@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > Dave I'm not sure why you are being so combative with me lately but I'm
> > going to do something I normally don't and let this one die. It's
really
> > not worth arguing about.
> >
> > (and don't take this a victory on your part, I don't think I proved your
> > point at all)
> >
> > --
> > Sean Dotson, PE
> > http://www.sdotson.com
> > ...sleep is for the weak..
> > -----------------------------------------
> > "David Radlin" wrote in message
> > news:FD7FFAF35EF7ACA9476172B606D2D5EA@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > Thanks for proving my point...
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > > "Sean Dotson" wrote in message
> > > news:35DFEA2B4214DE060D621617F900FE8A@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > actually no...
> > > >
> > > > fal·la·cy Pronunciation Key (fl-s)
> > > > n. pl. fal·la·cies
> > > > 1.. A false notion.
> > > > 2.. A statement or an argument based on a false or invalid
> inference.
> > > > 3.. Incorrectness of reasoning or belief; erroneousness.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Sean Dotson, PE
> > > > http://www.sdotson.com
> > > > ...sleep is for the weak..
> > > > -----------------------------------------
> > > > "David Radlin" wrote in message
> > > > news:84D28EA9E8FE2FDF3FF9053822547A4B@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > "Exaggeration for effect..." - a fallacy none the less.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave
> > > > >
> > > > > "Sean Dotson" wrote in message
> > > > > news:B4D8DAFCC62FAD9CC99AE9F8B88A3A37@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > > This is not a red herring Dave. Exaggeration for effect
possibly
> > but
> > > > not
> > > > > a
> > > > > > red herring.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Red Herring: a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented
> in
> > > > order
> > > > > to
> > > > > > divert attention from the original issue.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I was addressing a point in his argument. In my opinion it is
not
> > > > > > acceptable for a SP to fix one issue and break another. I don't
> see
> > > how
> > > > > > that's irrelevant.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The march must be forward only. If that means only 1 or 2 big
SPs
> > > then
> > > > so
> > > > > > be it. These are my opinions. If you disagree that is your
> right.
> > > > > However
> > > > > > I'd get my fallacies straight before casting stones.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Sean Dotson, PE
> > > > > > http://www.sdotson.com
> > > > > > ...sleep is for the weak..
> > > > > > -----------------------------------------
> > > > > > "David Radlin" wrote in message
> > > > > > news:DA453CFF836743B49944CFEC1122BA34@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > > > Red herring....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dave
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Sean Dotson" wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:276099780228E9E429B74EBB0669B595@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > > > > "I know you run the chance of something else "breaking" with
a
> > > > service
> > > > > > > pack
> > > > > > > > but in my opinion it is worth the risk."
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So in your opinion it would be "worth the risk" to get a SP
to
> > fix
> > > > the
> > > > > > > Excel
> > > > > > > > Linking Issue (for example) even if parametrics stopped
> working
> > > all
> > > > > > > > together? I don't think this would be a very popular view.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Sean Dotson, PE
> > > > > > > > http://www.sdotson.com
> > > > > > > > ...sleep is for the weak..
> > > > > > > > -----------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > "Eric Zirkle" <@> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > news:4CAB2AFACE45D233893ED3245ED10D25@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > > > > > What's the difference between 15 small service packs and 2
> or
> > 3
> > > > > large
> > > > > > > > > service packs. The difference is they release them as the
> > > > problems
> > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > found and fixed instead of sitting on the solution until
> there
> > > is
> > > > a
> > > > > > > large
> > > > > > > > > enough amount to issue a SP. I know you run the chance of
> > > > something
> > > > > > else
> > > > > > > > > "breaking" with a service pack but in my opinion it is
worth
> > the
> > > > > risk.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > "Purge" wrote in message
> > > > > > > > >
news:2B9062CFA565EE6E980AF0D677C5E751@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > > > > > > But how many SP's do they need to have the product be
> > stable?
> > > A
> > > > > lot.
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > personally have not seen any Autodesk SP's go pass 4.
> > > Correctly
> > > > me
> > > > > > if
> > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > am
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> > > ----
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> > > ----
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> > > ----
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> > > ----
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 33 of 37
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

One point we all forget just so easily is that we Assume that Autodesk has
OUR best interest as users right at the top of their priority list. This is
simply not the case. We have seen Autodesk products time and again proven to
be driven by the marketing machine, and end user interest comes way down the
list compared to company profit-market share and others.
I know many developers will contest this but it is simply true. The
developers are an enthusiastic & talented bunch but they too are driven by
marketing and management. There has been many posts here to prove this.
Autodesk wants to survive this tough time for MCAD, plain and simple. And if
the marketing team thinks that rushing software out the door (or any other
method) to beat the competition or gain market share or whatever is the best
way to survive then that is simply what they will do. Maybe they are right
cos No Autodesk = No Inventor.
Don't get me wrong i'm sure that Autodesk do have users best interest on the
list, its just not at the top like we all presume it is when making
suggestions on how to make INV a better product for us...

Brian

"Jeff Howard" wrote in message
news:5CC74BB2CB7FCCA9E78829FC14E61446@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> My preference as well.
>
> =======================
>
> "Leo Laimer" wrote in message
> news:BDE3CBBA6D5546C5CC028C906CF5831F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> ..................
> better stability and quality of the package, over a faster release cycle.
> ................
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 34 of 37
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I've said it before - gain market share by selling
a quality product at a justifiable cost.

 

The industry has gone awry and we are doomed to
stay there until someone takes the high road.

 

The Japanese auto industry did it and battered
the North American auto industry... "He who does not learn from history is
doomed to repeat it.".
(author unknown)

 

Dave

 

>
> One
point we all forget just so easily is that we Assume that Autodesk has
>
OUR best interest as users right at the top of their priority list. This
is
> simply not the case. We have seen Autodesk products time and again
proven to
> be driven by the marketing machine, and end user interest
comes way down the
> list compared to company profit-market share and
others.
> I know many developers will contest this but it is simply true.
The
> developers are an enthusiastic & talented bunch but they too are
driven by
> marketing and management. There has been many posts here to
prove this.
> Autodesk wants to survive this tough time for MCAD, plain
and simple. And if
> the marketing team thinks that rushing software out
the door (or any other
> method) to beat the competition or gain market
share or whatever is the best
> way to survive then that is simply what
they will do. Maybe they are right
> cos No Autodesk = No
Inventor.
> Don't get me wrong i'm sure that Autodesk do have users best
interest on the
> list, its just not at the top like we all presume it is
when making
> suggestions on how to make INV a better product for
us...
>
> Brian
>
> "Jeff Howard" <

href="mailto:REMOVE_THISjeff4136@mindspring.com">
size=2>REMOVE_THISjeff4136@mindspring.com
>
wrote in message
>

href="news:5CC74BB2CB7FCCA9E78829FC14E61446@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb">
face=Arial
size=2>news:5CC74BB2C...

face=Arial size=2>...
> > My preference as well.
> >
>
> =======================
> >
> > "Leo Laimer"
<

size=2>leo.laimer@eunet.at
> wrote in
message
> >

href="news:BDE3CBBA6D5546C5CC028C906CF5831F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb">
face=Arial
size=2>news:BDE3CBBA6...

face=Arial size=2>...
> > ..................
> > better
stability and quality of the package, over a faster release cycle.
> >
................
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 35 of 37
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Didn't ol' Adolph say that about the Treaty of
Versi? <G>

~Larry

 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

I've said it before - gain market share by
selling a quality product at a justifiable cost.

 

The industry has gone awry and we are doomed to
stay there until someone takes the high road.

 

The Japanese auto industry did it
and battered the North American auto industry... "He who does not learn
from history is doomed to repeat it.".
(author unknown)

 

Dave

 

>
> One
point we all forget just so easily is that we Assume that Autodesk has
>
OUR best interest as users right at the top of their priority list. This
is
> simply not the case. We have seen Autodesk products time and again
proven to
> be driven by the marketing machine, and end user interest
comes way down the
> list compared to company profit-market share and
others.
> I know many developers will contest this but it is simply
true. The
> developers are an enthusiastic & talented bunch but they
too are driven by
> marketing and management. There has been many posts
here to prove this.
> Autodesk wants to survive this tough time for
MCAD, plain and simple. And if
> the marketing team thinks that rushing
software out the door (or any other
> method) to beat the competition or
gain market share or whatever is the best
> way to survive then that is
simply what they will do. Maybe they are right
> cos No Autodesk = No
Inventor.
> Don't get me wrong i'm sure that Autodesk do have users best
interest on the
> list, its just not at the top like we all presume it
is when making
> suggestions on how to make INV a better product for
us...
>
> Brian
>
> "Jeff Howard" <

href="mailto:REMOVE_THISjeff4136@mindspring.com">
size=2>REMOVE_THISjeff4136@mindspring.com

size=2>> wrote in message
>

href="news:5CC74BB2CB7FCCA9E78829FC14E61446@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb">
face=Arial
size=2>news:5CC...

face=Arial size=2>...
> > My preference as well.
> >
>
> =======================
> >
> > "Leo Laimer"
<

size=2>leo.laimer@eunet.at
> wrote in
message
> >

href="news:BDE3CBBA6D5546C5CC028C906CF5831F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb">
face=Arial
size=2>news:BDE...

face=Arial size=2>...
> > ..................
> > better
stability and quality of the package, over a faster release cycle.
>
> ................
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 36 of 37
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Not that one more opinion matters, but I
would support the fewer, larger service packs that presumably are more
thoroughly tested.  My experience with SW (although admittedly limited) was
that the service packs appeared to have little testing.  These packs were
thought to solve specific problems and not "known" to introduce new ones. 
Others have complained that R6 Beta testing was not thorough enough.  That
testing was probably several thousand times the testing devoted to a
small service pack.  Service packs without enough testing are common
sources of problems.  If the problems do not hit your work, they are
insignificant.  If they hit your work or key functions, they are
monumental.  IMO more people will benefit from the larger, less frequent
service packs.

 

    Ed R

 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

Didn't ol' Adolph say that about the Treaty of
Versi? <G>

~Larry

 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

I've said it before - gain market share by
selling a quality product at a justifiable cost.

 

The industry has gone awry and we are doomed to
stay there until someone takes the high road.

 

The Japanese auto industry did it
and battered the North American auto industry... "He who does not learn
from history is doomed to repeat it.".
(author unknown)

 

Dave

 

>
> One
point we all forget just so easily is that we Assume that Autodesk
has
> OUR best interest as users right at the top of their priority
list. This is
> simply not the case. We have seen Autodesk products
time and again proven to
> be driven by the marketing machine, and end
user interest comes way down the
> list compared to company
profit-market share and others.
> I know many developers will contest
this but it is simply true. The
> developers are an enthusiastic &
talented bunch but they too are driven by
> marketing and management.
There has been many posts here to prove this.
> Autodesk wants to
survive this tough time for MCAD, plain and simple. And if
> the
marketing team thinks that rushing software out the door (or any
other
> method) to beat the competition or gain market share or
whatever is the best
> way to survive then that is simply what they
will do. Maybe they are right
> cos No Autodesk = No Inventor.
>
Don't get me wrong i'm sure that Autodesk do have users best interest on
the
> list, its just not at the top like we all presume it is when
making
> suggestions on how to make INV a better product for
us...
>
> Brian
>
> "Jeff Howard" <

href="mailto:REMOVE_THISjeff4136@mindspring.com">
size=2>REMOVE_THISjeff4136@mindspring.com

size=2>> wrote in message
>

href="news:5CC74BB2CB7FCCA9E78829FC14E61446@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb">
face=Arial
size=2>ne...

face=Arial size=2>...
> > My preference as well.
>
>
> > =======================
> >
> > "Leo
Laimer" <

size=2>leo.laimer@eunet.at
> wrote in
message
> >

href="news:BDE3CBBA6D5546C5CC028C906CF5831F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb">
face=Arial
size=2>ne...

face=Arial size=2>...
> > ..................
> > better
stability and quality of the package, over a faster release cycle.
>
> ................
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 37 of 37
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

IV6 had TWO betas, I think that was plenty IF they
took the knowledge gained and applied it to the final product AND if the Beta
testers did their job in finding the bugs. Although it is hard to find the
problems without committing the Beta to actual production work.


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

Not that one more opinion matters, but
I would support the fewer, larger service packs that presumably are more
thoroughly tested.  My experience with SW (although admittedly limited)
was that the service packs appeared to have little testing.  These packs
were thought to solve specific problems and not "known" to introduce new
ones.  Others have complained that R6 Beta testing was not thorough
enough.  That testing was probably several thousand times the
testing devoted to a small service pack.  Service packs without enough
testing are common sources of problems.  If the problems do not hit your
work, they are insignificant.  If they hit your work or key functions,
they are monumental.  IMO more people will benefit from the larger, less
frequent service packs.

 

    Ed R

 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

Didn't ol' Adolph say that about the Treaty
of Versi? <G>

~Larry

 


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I've said it before - gain market share by
selling a quality product at a justifiable cost.

 

The industry has gone awry and we are doomed
to stay there until someone takes the high road.

 

The Japanese auto industry did it
and battered the North American auto industry... "He who does not
learn from history is doomed to repeat it.".
(author
unknown)

 

Dave

 

>
>
One point we all forget just so easily is that we Assume that Autodesk
has
> OUR best interest as users right at the top of their priority
list. This is
> simply not the case. We have seen Autodesk products
time and again proven to
> be driven by the marketing machine, and
end user interest comes way down the
> list compared to company
profit-market share and others.
> I know many developers will
contest this but it is simply true. The
> developers are an
enthusiastic & talented bunch but they too are driven by
>
marketing and management. There has been many posts here to prove
this.
> Autodesk wants to survive this tough time for MCAD, plain
and simple. And if
> the marketing team thinks that rushing software
out the door (or any other
> method) to beat the competition or gain
market share or whatever is the best
> way to survive then that is
simply what they will do. Maybe they are right
> cos No Autodesk =
No Inventor.
> Don't get me wrong i'm sure that Autodesk do have
users best interest on the
> list, its just not at the top like we
all presume it is when making
> suggestions on how to make INV a
better product for us...
>
> Brian
>
> "Jeff
Howard" <

href="mailto:REMOVE_THISjeff4136@mindspring.com">
size=2>REMOVE_THISjeff4136@mindspring...

size=2>> wrote in message
>

href="news:5CC74BB2CB7FCCA9E78829FC14E61446@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb">
face=Arial
siz...

face=Arial size=2>...
> > My preference as well.
>
>
> > =======================
> >
> > "Leo
Laimer" <

size=2>leo.laimer@eunet.at
> wrote in
message
> >

href="news:BDE3CBBA6D5546C5CC028C906CF5831F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb">
face=Arial
siz...

face=Arial size=2>...
> > ..................
> > better
stability and quality of the package, over a faster release cycle.
>
> ................
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

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