network install on Novell netware 5.0 server

[Anonymous]

We just received our AutoCAD (2002) Mechanical 6 update, we are currently
using our Novell server to manage network licenses. Is it true that this is
no longer possible with the new Adlm? and if so what are my options? I only
have 15 licenses am I better off getting individual licenses and forget
about the network install? Anyone else facing this?

Mike Meives

[Anonymous]

Yes it is true. The FlexLM doesn't support netware. The choice to do local licenses is
up to you, but I generally recommend network licensing. Get any old workstation you have
sitting around and install NT 4 on it (or win2k). If you want to use tcp as your
licensing protocol you'll need to run a server version as the workstation version will
only allow 10 connections. You can opt out and use the udp version, but udp isn't as
reliable as tcp. (Although I don't have much trouble with the old adlm running udp).

sorry

jason martin
frankfurt-short-bruza

"Michael Meives" wrote in message
news:65F7529E6204FE6C4FE896D2BD068376@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> We just received our AutoCAD (2002) Mechanical 6 update, we are currently
> using our Novell server to manage network licenses. Is it true that this is
> no longer possible with the new Adlm? and if so what are my options? I only
> have 15 licenses am I better off getting individual licenses and forget
> about the network install? Anyone else facing this?
>
> Mike Meives
>
>

[Anonymous]

jmartin@^nospam^fsb-ae.com wrote:
>Yes it is true. The FlexLM doesn't support netware. The choice to do local licenses is
>up to you, but I generally recommend network licensing. Get any old workstation you have
>sitting around and install NT 4 on it (or win2k). If you want to use tcp as your
>licensing protocol you'll need to run a server version as the workstation version will
>only allow 10 connections. You can opt out and use the udp version, but udp isn't as
>reliable as tcp. (Although I don't have much trouble with the old adlm running udp).
>
>sorry
>
>jason martin
>frankfurt-short-bruza

OK, so FlexLM won't play on Netware. That's sad.
But FlexLM has a nice long list of supported platforms. See:
http://www.globetrotter.com/flexlm/lmplat.shtml
Great, yes? So we can move our Autodesk license server from Netware to our
Linux server, or HP-UX server, right? Oh no, I'm dreaming here, aren't I?

By the way, parking a Windows NT Workstation system in a corner somewhere
to run just server-type things like the License Manager is a violation of
the Microsoft license, which requires Workstation to be used for
workstation-type stuff; i.e. a warm body sitting in front of it I guess.
Don't encourage people to violate license agreements.

[Anonymous]

Could you please quote me the paragraph(s) where the MS EULA says that a workstation
cannot be used for network services? Or where it has to have someone actually working on
it?

jason martin
frankfurt-short-bruza

(snip)
>
> By the way, parking a Windows NT Workstation system in a corner somewhere
> to run just server-type things like the License Manager is a violation of
> the Microsoft license, which requires Workstation to be used for
> workstation-type stuff; i.e. a warm body sitting in front of it I guess.
> Don't encourage people to violate license agreements.

[Anonymous]

I'd like to see this too, because something just doesn't sound right. I
suppose that our "robot" printer running AutoCAD on Win95 (soon to be
Win98SE) is also illegal (not) as nobody even touches that PC unless it
crashes (about every other day).

Here is something else that I find really, really odd. Our IT director was
told, supposedly by someone at MS, that for *every* user account you have in
User Manager for Domains you have to have a CAL. One, of the many, things
that really strikes me as odd is in companies that have split shifts.

Example:
A company has 20 PCs, but 60 employees (20 on 3 different shifts) and maybe
70 user accounts (employees, temps, contractors, accounts for running
services, etc), but only 20 (maybe 25 for temps and contractors) people
would ever be logged onto the network at a time. But our IT director has it
in his head that we would have to own 70 CALs to be legal. I believe and
from the little that I've read and heard that you only need as many CALs as
you have concurrent users. So you wouldn't even need a CAL for those
accounts that you create to run as service as.

--
Kevin Nehls


"jason martin" wrote in message
news:FE4BBFEBF538E1BA69642F160DA29858@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Could you please quote me the paragraph(s) where the MS EULA says that a
workstation
> cannot be used for network services? Or where it has to have someone
actually working on
> it?
>
> jason martin
> frankfurt-short-bruza

[Anonymous]

Kevin -
Some very good points.

To take your example even further, lets say that there isn't a server. Only a
workstation, isolated, not connected to a network. 3 different people use the
workstation, hence 3 logons. Since there are no "cals" for workstation does that mean
that you have to have 3 workstation licenses for 1 piece of hardware/software?

I believe that your IT director has been mis-informed. Take a look at the MS License
logging service (it doesn't work that well to start with, but it's the idea that counts).
The license logging service counts "simultaneous connections" to a server. It doesn't
care about number of users in usermanager. Doesn't care about print connections. It
simply counts the number of users connected at any given time. If the number of users
exceeds the number of licenses it's logged in the event log.

jmo

jason martin
frankfurt-short-bruza

"Kevin Nehls" wrote in message
news:D50B22A844B15A974E21E9686BF781BD@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> I'd like to see this too, because something just doesn't sound right. I
> suppose that our "robot" printer running AutoCAD on Win95 (soon to be
> Win98SE) is also illegal (not) as nobody even touches that PC unless it
> crashes (about every other day).
>
> Here is something else that I find really, really odd. Our IT director was
> told, supposedly by someone at MS, that for *every* user account you have in
> User Manager for Domains you have to have a CAL. One, of the many, things
> that really strikes me as odd is in companies that have split shifts.
>
> Example:
> A company has 20 PCs, but 60 employees (20 on 3 different shifts) and maybe
> 70 user accounts (employees, temps, contractors, accounts for running
> services, etc), but only 20 (maybe 25 for temps and contractors) people
> would ever be logged onto the network at a time. But our IT director has it
> in his head that we would have to own 70 CALs to be legal. I believe and
> from the little that I've read and heard that you only need as many CALs as
> you have concurrent users. So you wouldn't even need a CAL for those
> accounts that you create to run as service as.
>
> --
> Kevin Nehls
>
>
> "jason martin" wrote in message
> news:FE4BBFEBF538E1BA69642F160DA29858@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > Could you please quote me the paragraph(s) where the MS EULA says that a
> workstation
> > cannot be used for network services? Or where it has to have someone
> actually working on
> > it?
> >
> > jason martin
> > frankfurt-short-bruza
>
>
>

[Anonymous]

"jason martin" wrote in message
news:41825A09BD821716A5284886E0A1219F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Kevin -
> Some very good points.
>
> To take your example even further, lets say that there isn't a server.
Only a
> workstation, isolated, not connected to a network. 3 different people use
the
> workstation, hence 3 logons. Since there are no "cals" for workstation
does that mean
> that you have to have 3 workstation licenses for 1 piece of
hardware/software?
>
> I believe that your IT director has been mis-informed.

Oh, I know he's been mis-informed.

> Take a look at the MS License
> logging service (it doesn't work that well to start with, but it's the
idea that counts).
> The license logging service counts "simultaneous connections" to a server.

Oh, I know. I tried telling him this, but he's sooooo close minded. Maybe
I'll have to show him exactly where it is on the server, because I know he
doesn't know.

[Anonymous]

Hi Guys,

You can run Flex on a Novell TCP/IP network. You would have to do it at the
local workstation, but it does work. There is no NLM so you can not put it
on the actual Netware server. Globetrotter actually had an NLM a while
back, but stopped supporting it.

Take care.

Bud Schroeder
Autodesk Inc.
Test Development



"ljb" wrote in message
news:C08466F00013F188B78098DEBEF1DEAB@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> jmartin@^nospam^fsb-ae.com wrote:
> >Yes it is true. The FlexLM doesn't support netware. The choice to do
local licenses is
> >up to you, but I generally recommend network licensing. Get any old
workstation you have
> >sitting around and install NT 4 on it (or win2k). If you want to use tcp
as your
> >licensing protocol you'll need to run a server version as the workstation
version will
> >only allow 10 connections. You can opt out and use the udp version, but
udp isn't as
> >reliable as tcp. (Although I don't have much trouble with the old adlm
running udp).
> >
> >sorry
> >
> >jason martin
> >frankfurt-short-bruza
>
> OK, so FlexLM won't play on Netware. That's sad.
> But FlexLM has a nice long list of supported platforms. See:
> http://www.globetrotter.com/flexlm/lmplat.shtml
> Great, yes? So we can move our Autodesk license server from Netware to our
> Linux server, or HP-UX server, right? Oh no, I'm dreaming here, aren't I?
>
> By the way, parking a Windows NT Workstation system in a corner somewhere
> to run just server-type things like the License Manager is a violation of
> the Microsoft license, which requires Workstation to be used for
> workstation-type stuff; i.e. a warm body sitting in front of it I guess.
> Don't encourage people to violate license agreements.

[Anonymous]

jmartin@^nospam^fsb-ae.com wrote:
>Could you please quote me the paragraph(s) where the MS EULA says that a workstation
>cannot be used for network services? Or where it has to have someone actually working on
>it?

Cannot be used *only* for network services, I think said.

This from the Microsoft Windows NT Workstation EULA, item 1:

| You may install the SOFTWARE PRODUCT on a single computer
| ("Workstation Computer") for use as interactive workstation
| software, but not as server software.

Seems pretty clear to me.

Notwithstanding this:

| However, you may permit a maximum of ten (10) computers to connect to the
| Workstation Computer to access and use services of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT,
| such as file and print services and peer web services.

Which says that in addition to interactive use, up to 10 computers can
connect over the network.

So how about it... will we be able to get FlexLM on Linux serving
AutoCAD licenses and all stay nice and software-legal?

[Anonymous]

bud.schroeder@autodesk.com wrote:
>Hi Guys,
>
>You can run Flex on a Novell TCP/IP network. You would have to do it at the
>local workstation, but it does work. There is no NLM so you can not put it
>on the actual Netware server. Globetrotter actually had an NLM a while
>back, but stopped supporting it.

No such thing really as a "Novell TCP/IP network". The issue is the
platform for running the Autodesk licensing server itself. The network
itself is irrelevant.

We can't run it on a workstation because people turn their workstations
off at night, and anyway interactive Windows boxes are too unreliable
for this and they need to be rebooted too often.

I don't blame Autodesk for not supporting Novell since FlexLM doesn't
support it. But how about considering supporting some of the other server
platforms which FlexLM does support? Put in my vote for Linux.

[Anonymous]

Actually I have visited a lot of customers that did not want to run the NLM
for Elan. They used a Windows 95 box that was put in a corner that it ran
just fine. Not something I would recommend, but it did work.

Netware 5.1 can run as pure IP. We have it running in our LAB and it works
GREAT, so yes it does exist and Flex runs fine on it. The idea would be to
not use a workstation that someone actually sits at and uses, but to setup a
Windows 2000 or NT 4 box just for the license manager. This works fine with
Flex.

Take care.

Bud



"ljb" wrote in message
news:7C660750FEC48B3CCEE558DCE6A90264@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> bud.schroeder@autodesk.com wrote:
> >Hi Guys,
> >
> >You can run Flex on a Novell TCP/IP network. You would have to do it at
the
> >local workstation, but it does work. There is no NLM so you can not put
it
> >on the actual Netware server. Globetrotter actually had an NLM a while
> >back, but stopped supporting it.
>
> No such thing really as a "Novell TCP/IP network". The issue is the
> platform for running the Autodesk licensing server itself. The network
> itself is irrelevant.
>
> We can't run it on a workstation because people turn their workstations
> off at night, and anyway interactive Windows boxes are too unreliable
> for this and they need to be rebooted too often.
>
> I don't blame Autodesk for not supporting Novell since FlexLM doesn't
> support it. But how about considering supporting some of the other server
> platforms which FlexLM does support? Put in my vote for Linux.

[Anonymous]

It appears that you have a different EULA than I.
From
End-User License Agreement for Microsoft Desktop Operating Systems
Microsoft(r) Window NT(r) Workstation Version 4.0
Maximum Number of Processors:2
My item 1 is
Software Installation and Use. You may only install and use one copy of the SOFTWARE
PRODUCT on the COMPUTER.
Item 2
Network Services. Except as otherwise provided below, if the SOFTWARE PRODUCT
documentation indicates that the SOFTWARE PRODUCT includes functionality that enables the
COMPUTER to share resources over a network with other computers or workstations, any
number of computers or workstation may access or other wise utilize the basic network
services of SOFTWARE PRODUCT on the COMPUTER. The basic network services are more fully
described in the printed materials accompanying the SOFTWARE PRODUCT and include file and
print services and peer Web services.
Item 3
Windows NT Workstation Network Services. If the SOFTWARE PRODUCT is Windows NT
Workstation, a maximum of ten (10) inbound peer connections may simultaneously access or
otherwise utilize the basic network services of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT or COMPUTER. The
ten-connection maximum includes any indirect connections made through software or hardware
that pools or aggregates connections.

Item 3 would seem to be a "gotcha". It clearly states 10 inbound peer connections. My
argument is over the term connections. The MS license logging service doesn't count udp
as a connection. It can't, because there are no connections when using udp, it is a
connectionless protocol. If you use tcp then the case would be different. In fact it
would appear that globetrotter added udp as a supported protocol in V3 to handle similar
unix situations. From the FlexLM documentation:

When using UDP, there is no limit to the number of end users per vendor daemon process,
because they can share a single socket in the vendor daemon (UDP has other drawbacks, and
TCP is preferred).

jmho

jason martin
frankfurt-short-bruza


"ljb" wrote in message
news:EFD053AF3120CD79F1127353C007C0E7@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> jmartin@^nospam^fsb-ae.com wrote:
> >Could you please quote me the paragraph(s) where the MS EULA says that a workstation
> >cannot be used for network services? Or where it has to have someone actually working
on
> >it?
>
> Cannot be used *only* for network services, I think said.
>
> This from the Microsoft Windows NT Workstation EULA, item 1:
>
> | You may install the SOFTWARE PRODUCT on a single computer
> | ("Workstation Computer") for use as interactive workstation
> | software, but not as server software.
>
> Seems pretty clear to me.
>
> Notwithstanding this:
>
> | However, you may permit a maximum of ten (10) computers to connect to the
> | Workstation Computer to access and use services of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT,
> | such as file and print services and peer web services.
>
> Which says that in addition to interactive use, up to 10 computers can
> connect over the network.
>
> So how about it... will we be able to get FlexLM on Linux serving
> AutoCAD licenses and all stay nice and software-legal?

[dgard]

We are looking at another licensing manager software to handle many licensing issues. You should check out Sassafras NetWorking software at http://www.keyserver.com.au. They allow you to license almost any software and it works with Novell and Linx. Give it a look because it is cheaper than setting up a NT/2000 server just to do license management.

Dennis

[Anonymous]

jmartin@^nospam^fsb-ae.com wrote:
>It appears that you have a different EULA than I.
>From
>End-User License Agreement for Microsoft Desktop Operating Systems
>Microsoft(r) Window NT(r) Workstation Version 4.0
>...

I stand corrected, sort of. It turns out there are at least 2 different NT
licenses. The OEM version ("for sale only with a new computer"), which you
quoted, does not have the "for use as interactive..." restriction, which is
in the full version. Why the more expensive "full" version should be more
restricted then the low-cost OEM bundled version is beyond me.

>Item 3 would seem to be a "gotcha". It clearly states 10 inbound peer connections. My...

Actually, it isn't clear at all that the 10 inbound connections limit
applies to anything but those services which are included in NT itself,
such as peer web server, SMB networking, and printing:
"However, you may permit a maximum of ten (10) computers to connect to the
Workstation Computer to access and use services of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT..."
One could read this as meaning that an add-on service, such as FlexLM,
would not at all be included in this restriction.

In spite of all the above, it would still be much better to be able to run
it on a real server, including non-Windows servers.