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*Keefer, Bob
Message 1 of 28 (178 Views)

Drawings changing to Read Only

178 Views, 27 Replies
02-11-2000 07:25 AM
<<< Message <38A37609.4E6D5322@home.com> was originally posted to 'autodesk.autocad.2000general' on Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:38:01 -0600.>>>

We just got AutoCAD 2000 installed this week at work, and we are having
a frustrating time. Users will open drawings fine, but at some point
during editing the drawing will "change" to Read Only, displaying an
error that the drawing is in use by someone else and cannot be saved.
Naturally that is not the case. It is affecting most of our users, and
seems to be random and sporadic. It does not happen on every file with
every user, nor is there a specific amount of time the drawing can be
open or edited before it happens.

All drawings are stored on a network file server (NT Server). All
AutoCAD licenses are local installations. Machines are mostly HP Vectra
P2-200 with onboard graphics, running WinNT 4, SP 3 or 5..

AutoCAD settings: We have tried disabling Autosave, setting the "Demand
load xrefs" to disabled, and setting "Incremental save percentage".
Graphics acceleration is set to "software".

Our dealer contacted Autodesk, but no help so far. I was checking this
newsgroup for messages this past weekend, and saw several instances of
the problem, including some on computers that were not on a network. In
fact, with my personal license at home, I am getting save errors that
display a message box: "Unable to save drawing "blah-blah" as it is
being accessed by another session. Drawing saved to xxxx.ac$. I have a
P2-266 dual, with plenty of RAM, and Windows NT4, SP5.

If this has happened to you, would you please chime in? I need to
demonstrate that the problem is not unique to us to try and get some
help. Also, if you got it fixed, I would love to hear how!!

Thanks!

Bob Keefer
*Hurley, Shaan
Message 1 of 28 (178 Views)

Re: Drawings changing to Read Only

02-11-2000 07:25 AM in reply to: *Keefer, Bob
<<< Message <8806g4$sf14@adesknews2.autodesk.com> was originally posted to 'autodesk.autocad.2000general' on Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:23:59 -0800.>>>

Bob,

I would try the network discussion group as well as that may be the possible
source as the OS and network controls the read only. Try booting one of
these machines without the network connection at all and see if you get the
error. Could the file server be slower than the workstations? The AutoCAD
2000 Service Pack addressed a problem where the drawing was not being
released in a timely manner but not spontaneous read only. The issue you
have seen in this discussion group have primarily been the result of the
demand loading XREFs, a rare Win98 SE graphics acceleration read only, or
Novell's client 32 defect. I think this is most likely a network issue in
your case but without more specifics it is hard to tell.

Sincerely,

Shaan Hurley
Autodesk Beta Programs
http://betaprograms.autodesk.com

Bob Keefer wrote in message
news:38A37609.4E6D5322@home.com...
We just got AutoCAD 2000 installed this week at work, and we are having
a frustrating time. Users will open drawings fine, but at some point
during editing the drawing will "change" to Read Only, displaying an
error that the drawing is in use by someone else and cannot be saved.
Naturally that is not the case. It is affecting most of our users, and
seems to be random and sporadic. It does not happen on every file with
every user, nor is there a specific amount of time the drawing can be
open or edited before it happens.

All drawings are stored on a network file server (NT Server). All
AutoCAD licenses are local installations. Machines are mostly HP Vectra
P2-200 with onboard graphics, running WinNT 4, SP 3 or 5..

AutoCAD settings: We have tried disabling Autosave, setting the "Demand
load xrefs" to disabled, and setting "Incremental save percentage".
Graphics acceleration is set to "software".

Our dealer contacted Autodesk, but no help so far. I was checking this
newsgroup for messages this past weekend, and saw several instances of
the problem, including some on computers that were not on a network. In
fact, with my personal license at home, I am getting save errors that
display a message box: "Unable to save drawing "blah-blah" as it is
being accessed by another session. Drawing saved to xxxx.ac$. I have a
P2-266 dual, with plenty of RAM, and Windows NT4, SP5.

If this has happened to you, would you please chime in? I need to
demonstrate that the problem is not unique to us to try and get some
help. Also, if you got it fixed, I would love to hear how!!

Thanks!

Bob Keefer
*long, mike
Message 1 of 28 (178 Views)

Re: Drawings changing to Read Only

02-11-2000 07:25 AM in reply to: *Keefer, Bob
<<< Message <881377$2n72@adesknews2.autodesk.com> was originally posted to 'autodesk.autocad.2000general' on Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:33:45 -0500.>>>

This is happening to us as well. We can not find a reason or answer
anywhere either. Our network is an NT and we are installed to the Autodesk
specifications.

Shaan Hurley wrote in message
news:8806g4$sf14@adesknews2.autodesk.com...
> Bob,
>
> I would try the network discussion group as well as that may be the
possible
> source as the OS and network controls the read only. Try booting one of
> these machines without the network connection at all and see if you get
the
> error. Could the file server be slower than the workstations? The AutoCAD
> 2000 Service Pack addressed a problem where the drawing was not being
> released in a timely manner but not spontaneous read only. The issue you
> have seen in this discussion group have primarily been the result of the
> demand loading XREFs, a rare Win98 SE graphics acceleration read only, or
> Novell's client 32 defect. I think this is most likely a network issue in
> your case but without more specifics it is hard to tell.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Shaan Hurley
> Autodesk Beta Programs
> http://betaprograms.autodesk.com
>
>
>
> Bob Keefer wrote in message
> news:38A37609.4E6D5322@home.com...
> We just got AutoCAD 2000 installed this week at work, and we are having
> a frustrating time. Users will open drawings fine, but at some point
> during editing the drawing will "change" to Read Only, displaying an
> error that the drawing is in use by someone else and cannot be saved.
> Naturally that is not the case. It is affecting most of our users, and
> seems to be random and sporadic. It does not happen on every file with
> every user, nor is there a specific amount of time the drawing can be
> open or edited before it happens.
>
> All drawings are stored on a network file server (NT Server). All
> AutoCAD licenses are local installations. Machines are mostly HP Vectra
> P2-200 with onboard graphics, running WinNT 4, SP 3 or 5..
>
> AutoCAD settings: We have tried disabling Autosave, setting the "Demand
> load xrefs" to disabled, and setting "Incremental save percentage".
> Graphics acceleration is set to "software".
>
> Our dealer contacted Autodesk, but no help so far. I was checking this
> newsgroup for messages this past weekend, and saw several instances of
> the problem, including some on computers that were not on a network. In
> fact, with my personal license at home, I am getting save errors that
> display a message box: "Unable to save drawing "blah-blah" as it is
> being accessed by another session. Drawing saved to xxxx.ac$. I have a
> P2-266 dual, with plenty of RAM, and Windows NT4, SP5.
>
> If this has happened to you, would you please chime in? I need to
> demonstrate that the problem is not unique to us to try and get some
> help. Also, if you got it fixed, I would love to hear how!!
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bob Keefer
>
>
>
*Hamelin, Krystyna
Message 4 of 28 (178 Views)

Re: Drawings changing to Read Only

02-11-2000 09:15 AM in reply to: *Keefer, Bob
Our client has exactly the same problem here. As soon as the drawing is on
the server, and not locally, he receives the message read only file. They
have Windows NT server SP5 and AutoCAD 2000 with sp1 and grapical system
update. We think that the problem is with timing. Autocad does not wait for
a permission from OS to save the file, instead it is proceeding with the
saving right away. This problem was posted to Autodesk and we are waiting
for solution.

And no, save as and then renaming the drawing is not the proper workaround.

Krystyna Hamelin
*Milana, Jerry
Message 5 of 28 (178 Views)

Re:

02-11-2000 10:56 AM in reply to: *Keefer, Bob
Hello All,

When you hit the SAVE or OPEN button in AutoCAD, a lot more goes on under the
covers than with most software. This is necessary due to complexities such as
xrefs. SAVE actually causes a series of file deletion and renaming. When you
open a file in AutoCAD, AutoCAD sends a request to lock the file via Microsoft
network API calls. Part of the SAVE process includes sending an API call to
release the lock. Performance problems and network software defects can break
this process. In some cases, a slow server does not process the lock release
request fast enough. In these cases, our instruction to rename the file
generates a sharing violation, causing the operating system to flag the drawing
read-only. Some third party network software misinterprets the API calls we
make while others drop them altogether.

Jerry Milana,
Autodesk Product Support

Krystyna Hamelin wrote:

> Our client has exactly the same problem here. As soon as the drawing is on
> the server, and not locally, he receives the message read only file. They
> have Windows NT server SP5 and AutoCAD 2000 with sp1 and grapical system
> update. We think that the problem is with timing. Autocad does not wait for
> a permission from OS to save the file, instead it is proceeding with the
> saving right away. This problem was posted to Autodesk and we are waiting
> for solution.
>
> And no, save as and then renaming the drawing is not the proper workaround.
>
> Krystyna Hamelin
*Keefer, Bob
Message 6 of 28 (178 Views)

Re:

02-11-2000 06:52 PM in reply to: *Keefer, Bob
Mike:

Thanks for responding. Maybe this thread will help us. I'll keep checking back in with results as we try things!

Bob

mike long wrote:

> <<< Message <881377$2n72@adesknews2.autodesk.com> was originally posted to 'autodesk.autocad.2000general' on Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:33:45 -0500.>>>
>
> This is happening to us as well. We can not find a reason or answer
> anywhere either. Our network is an NT and we are installed to the Autodesk
> specifications.
>
> Shaan Hurley wrote in message
> news:8806g4$sf14@adesknews2.autodesk.com...
> > Bob,
> >
> > I would try the network discussion group as well as that may be the
> possible
> > source as the OS and network controls the read only. Try booting one of
> > these machines without the network connection at all and see if you get
> the
> > error. Could the file server be slower than the workstations? The AutoCAD
> > 2000 Service Pack addressed a problem where the drawing was not being
> > released in a timely manner but not spontaneous read only. The issue you
> > have seen in this discussion group have primarily been the result of the
> > demand loading XREFs, a rare Win98 SE graphics acceleration read only, or
> > Novell's client 32 defect. I think this is most likely a network issue in
> > your case but without more specifics it is hard to tell.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Shaan Hurley
> > Autodesk Beta Programs
> > http://betaprograms.autodesk.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Bob Keefer wrote in message
> > news:38A37609.4E6D5322@home.com...
> > We just got AutoCAD 2000 installed this week at work, and we are having
> > a frustrating time. Users will open drawings fine, but at some point
> > during editing the drawing will "change" to Read Only, displaying an
> > error that the drawing is in use by someone else and cannot be saved.
> > Naturally that is not the case. It is affecting most of our users, and
> > seems to be random and sporadic. It does not happen on every file with
> > every user, nor is there a specific amount of time the drawing can be
> > open or edited before it happens.
> >
> > All drawings are stored on a network file server (NT Server). All
> > AutoCAD licenses are local installations. Machines are mostly HP Vectra
> > P2-200 with onboard graphics, running WinNT 4, SP 3 or 5..
> >
> > AutoCAD settings: We have tried disabling Autosave, setting the "Demand
> > load xrefs" to disabled, and setting "Incremental save percentage".
> > Graphics acceleration is set to "software".
> >
> > Our dealer contacted Autodesk, but no help so far. I was checking this
> > newsgroup for messages this past weekend, and saw several instances of
> > the problem, including some on computers that were not on a network. In
> > fact, with my personal license at home, I am getting save errors that
> > display a message box: "Unable to save drawing "blah-blah" as it is
> > being accessed by another session. Drawing saved to xxxx.ac$. I have a
> > P2-266 dual, with plenty of RAM, and Windows NT4, SP5.
> >
> > If this has happened to you, would you please chime in? I need to
> > demonstrate that the problem is not unique to us to try and get some
> > help. Also, if you got it fixed, I would love to hear how!!
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Bob Keefer
> >
> >
> >
*Keefer, Bob
Message 7 of 28 (178 Views)

Re:

02-11-2000 06:59 PM in reply to: *Keefer, Bob
Krystyna:

Thank you for jumping in. It is a maddening problem. If it is a network
timing problem, the first thing I am going to hear is "well why did it work
fine with R14?". It is somewhat ironic - in the past year I have managed to
develop an updated CAD process that moved all files to a server, incorporated
xrefs, etc., against the wishes of some who preferred to keep drawing files
scattered all over the place on individual hard drives. This doesn't look good
.

Bob

Krystyna Hamelin wrote:

> Our client has exactly the same problem here. As soon as the drawing is on
> the server, and not locally, he receives the message read only file. They
> have Windows NT server SP5 and AutoCAD 2000 with sp1 and grapical system
> update. We think that the problem is with timing. Autocad does not wait for
> a permission from OS to save the file, instead it is proceeding with the
> saving right away. This problem was posted to Autodesk and we are waiting
> for solution.
>
> And no, save as and then renaming the drawing is not the proper workaround.
>
> Krystyna Hamelin
*Keefer, Bob
Message 8 of 28 (178 Views)

Re:

02-11-2000 07:05 PM in reply to: *Keefer, Bob
Jerry:

How would you define a slow server? We are running NT Server on the server on
which our drawing files are located. I also have the Plotter definitions (.pc3
files) and Plot Style Tables (.cbt files) located on the server, with the paths set
appropriately in Options/Files.

Variances in network traffic and performance could explain the randomness of the
problem. Any recommendations or numbers on the network performance needed for
AutoCAD 2000 to open and save successfully?

Thanks for your help and detailed explanation!

Jerry Milana wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> When you hit the SAVE or OPEN button in AutoCAD, a lot more goes on under the
> covers than with most software. This is necessary due to complexities such as
> xrefs. SAVE actually causes a series of file deletion and renaming. When you
> open a file in AutoCAD, AutoCAD sends a request to lock the file via Microsoft
> network API calls. Part of the SAVE process includes sending an API call to
> release the lock. Performance problems and network software defects can break
> this process. In some cases, a slow server does not process the lock release
> request fast enough. In these cases, our instruction to rename the file
> generates a sharing violation, causing the operating system to flag the drawing
> read-only. Some third party network software misinterprets the API calls we
> make while others drop them altogether.
>
> Jerry Milana,
> Autodesk Product Support
>
> Krystyna Hamelin wrote:
>
> > Our client has exactly the same problem here. As soon as the drawing is on
> > the server, and not locally, he receives the message read only file. They
> > have Windows NT server SP5 and AutoCAD 2000 with sp1 and grapical system
> > update. We think that the problem is with timing. Autocad does not wait for
> > a permission from OS to save the file, instead it is proceeding with the
> > saving right away. This problem was posted to Autodesk and we are waiting
> > for solution.
> >
> > And no, save as and then renaming the drawing is not the proper workaround.
> >
> > Krystyna Hamelin
*Milana, Jerry
Message 9 of 28 (178 Views)

Re:

02-15-2000 11:12 AM in reply to: *Keefer, Bob
Bob,

There are so many variables, I can not place any hard numbers on this.
However, here are some typical red flags:
Workstations with faster processor than the server small variations usually work, large
variations often lead to problems.
Network traffic saturation (wire utilization) above 70%
Server resource utilization above 70%

As I mention above, these are ball parks. Also make sure that you have the latest
drivers for the Network adapters in your server and workstations, this can be a big
issue. I have also seen defective network hardware such as hubs work well enough to
provide basic connectivity but not reliable connectivity.

Jerry

Bob Keefer wrote:

> Jerry:
>
> How would you define a slow server? We are running NT Server on the server on
> which our drawing files are located. I also have the Plotter definitions (.pc3
> files) and Plot Style Tables (.cbt files) located on the server, with the paths set
> appropriately in Options/Files.
>
> Variances in network traffic and performance could explain the randomness of the
> problem. Any recommendations or numbers on the network performance needed for
> AutoCAD 2000 to open and save successfully?
>
> Thanks for your help and detailed explanation!
>
> Jerry Milana wrote:
>
> > Hello All,
> >
> > When you hit the SAVE or OPEN button in AutoCAD, a lot more goes on under the
> > covers than with most software. This is necessary due to complexities such as
> > xrefs. SAVE actually causes a series of file deletion and renaming. When you
> > open a file in AutoCAD, AutoCAD sends a request to lock the file via Microsoft
> > network API calls. Part of the SAVE process includes sending an API call to
> > release the lock. Performance problems and network software defects can break
> > this process. In some cases, a slow server does not process the lock release
> > request fast enough. In these cases, our instruction to rename the file
> > generates a sharing violation, causing the operating system to flag the drawing
> > read-only. Some third party network software misinterprets the API calls we
> > make while others drop them altogether.
> >
> > Jerry Milana,
> > Autodesk Product Support
> >
> > Krystyna Hamelin wrote:
> >
> > > Our client has exactly the same problem here. As soon as the drawing is on
> > > the server, and not locally, he receives the message read only file. They
> > > have Windows NT server SP5 and AutoCAD 2000 with sp1 and grapical system
> > > update. We think that the problem is with timing. Autocad does not wait for
> > > a permission from OS to save the file, instead it is proceeding with the
> > > saving right away. This problem was posted to Autodesk and we are waiting
> > > for solution.
> > >
> > > And no, save as and then renaming the drawing is not the proper workaround.
> > >
> > > Krystyna Hamelin
*long, mike
Message 10 of 28 (178 Views)

Re:

02-15-2000 01:51 PM in reply to: *Keefer, Bob
Our Network Administrator tells me that our server is much faster thatn any
machine. We changed auto Save to local drives and this, I thought helped.
However, the problem still persists.

Bob Keefer wrote in message
news:38A4CAD2.A6A84D1D@home.com...
> Mike:
>
> Thanks for responding. Maybe this thread will help us. I'll keep
checking back in with results as we try things!
>
> Bob
>
> mike long wrote:
>
> > <<< Message <881377$2n72@adesknews2.autodesk.com> was originally posted
to 'autodesk.autocad.2000general' on Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:33:45 -0500.>>>
> >
> > This is happening to us as well. We can not find a reason or answer
> > anywhere either. Our network is an NT and we are installed to the
Autodesk
> > specifications.
> >
> > Shaan Hurley wrote in message
> > news:8806g4$sf14@adesknews2.autodesk.com...
> > > Bob,
> > >
> > > I would try the network discussion group as well as that may be the
> > possible
> > > source as the OS and network controls the read only. Try booting one
of
> > > these machines without the network connection at all and see if you
get
> > the
> > > error. Could the file server be slower than the workstations? The
AutoCAD
> > > 2000 Service Pack addressed a problem where the drawing was not being
> > > released in a timely manner but not spontaneous read only. The issue
you
> > > have seen in this discussion group have primarily been the result of
the
> > > demand loading XREFs, a rare Win98 SE graphics acceleration read only,
or
> > > Novell's client 32 defect. I think this is most likely a network
issue in
> > > your case but without more specifics it is hard to tell.
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > >
> > > Shaan Hurley
> > > Autodesk Beta Programs
> > > http://betaprograms.autodesk.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bob Keefer wrote in message
> > > news:38A37609.4E6D5322@home.com...
> > > We just got AutoCAD 2000 installed this week at work, and we are
having
> > > a frustrating time. Users will open drawings fine, but at some point
> > > during editing the drawing will "change" to Read Only, displaying an
> > > error that the drawing is in use by someone else and cannot be saved.
> > > Naturally that is not the case. It is affecting most of our users,
and
> > > seems to be random and sporadic. It does not happen on every file
with
> > > every user, nor is there a specific amount of time the drawing can be
> > > open or edited before it happens.
> > >
> > > All drawings are stored on a network file server (NT Server). All
> > > AutoCAD licenses are local installations. Machines are mostly HP
Vectra
> > > P2-200 with onboard graphics, running WinNT 4, SP 3 or 5..
> > >
> > > AutoCAD settings: We have tried disabling Autosave, setting the
"Demand
> > > load xrefs" to disabled, and setting "Incremental save percentage".
> > > Graphics acceleration is set to "software".
> > >
> > > Our dealer contacted Autodesk, but no help so far. I was checking
this
> > > newsgroup for messages this past weekend, and saw several instances of
> > > the problem, including some on computers that were not on a network.
In
> > > fact, with my personal license at home, I am getting save errors that
> > > display a message box: "Unable to save drawing "blah-blah" as it is
> > > being accessed by another session. Drawing saved to xxxx.ac$. I have
a
> > > P2-266 dual, with plenty of RAM, and Windows NT4, SP5.
> > >
> > > If this has happened to you, would you please chime in? I need to
> > > demonstrate that the problem is not unique to us to try and get some
> > > help. Also, if you got it fixed, I would love to hear how!!
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Bob Keefer
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
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