AutoCAD on virtual PC

[Anonymous]

Anyone run AutoCAD in a virtual PC environment? I am being asked by my I.T.
department to run AutoCAD (25+/- users) via virtual PC so we don't have to
spend the money on CAD workstations.
Any feedback?
Thanks in advance.

Greg Hubers
CAD Systems Manager

[Anonymous]

Others with more experience will come forth, but....
Are we to assume that you/your firm is already a Mac-based firm? Or, less
likely, you have non-workstation class windows PC and may be under a
misunderstanding that Virtualization will make a plain-jane PC a
Workstation???

From my reading, Virtualization (VMWare or Parallels) is quite viable for
intel based Macs - especially for non 3D AutoCAD use. And even at that, that
scene is changing as virtualization software makes are 'virtualizing their
virtual video' (there's a mouth full) with OpenGL and D3D capability

See this blog post
http://autodesk.blogs.com/between_the_lines/2008/12/run-autocad-on-a-mac.html

JimL

[Anonymous]

if you are a mac user that is the only way you can run ACAD is using virtual
xp world other then using apple bootcamp which allows you to either boot
into max osx or windows XP. A virtual world will be okay depending on the
type of work. Really heavy 3D will maybe struggle. If you are a PC user and
want to run another windows OS in a virtual world, this will not gain you
anything over just running ACAD in your normal windows OS mode.
The other thing your IT guy might be talking about is using a server or
single high powered workstation in a virtual state where user log in and run
ACAD off that system instead of their normal PC. This is really not advised
because of the taxing program such as ACAD. 25 users logged in at one time
running ACAD in a heavy state would require a very expensive hardware to do
this. You might as well buy workstations for everyone, plus you would get
better performance.

"Greg Hubers" wrote in message
news:6099478@discussion.autodesk.com...
Anyone run AutoCAD in a virtual PC environment? I am being asked by my I.T.
department to run AutoCAD (25+/- users) via virtual PC so we don't have to
spend the money on CAD workstations.
Any feedback?
Thanks in advance.

Greg Hubers
CAD Systems Manager

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the responses.
Right now each designer is using HP xw8200's with 2 single core 3.2Ghz Xeons
(2MB cache, 800Mhz FSB), 15K rpm scsi drives in a RAID5, Nvidia FX1400's and
2GB system RAM on 32bit WinXP pro.
We run 22 seats of AutoCAD and a seat each of Revit, AutoCAD Arch and 3DS
Max. The xw8200's handle the softwares pretty well.
My feeling was that it would probably cost more to buy a cluster of high
enough end workstations that would serve as the hardware to run the CAD
software from a central location instead of each designer having their own
workstation. But I don't think the VP of IT's idea was to buy high end
workstations as a "server pool" dedicated to our group. I think he just
wants us to join the rest of the company on the hardware (thin clients in a
virtual pc environment) that they already have planned for all the other pc
users in the corporation (around 700). I think it's the age old problem of
budget approvers not understanding what CAD admins ask for hardware wise to
avoid frustrating the design staff.
I simply haven't investigated enough to know how far virtualizing the pc has
come to date to know if it was a viable option and whether such a virtual
workstation setup would provide satisfactory performance and actually save
money.
My initial reaction was "No way" but that is simply because I have always
used a local workstation for CAD.
The fact is that I may be forced to go to a virtual pc environment and
that's why I'm wondering what others' thoughts and experiences are with this
while I read up on and eventually test the virtual CAD workstation concept.
Again, thanks.

"Greg Hubers" wrote in message
news:6099478@discussion.autodesk.com...
Anyone run AutoCAD in a virtual PC environment? I am being asked by my I.T.
department to run AutoCAD (25+/- users) via virtual PC so we don't have to
spend the money on CAD workstations.
Any feedback?
Thanks in advance.

Greg Hubers
CAD Systems Manager

[Anonymous]

> The other thing your IT guy might
be talking about is using a server or
> single high powered workstation
in a virtual state where user log in and run
> ACAD off that system
instead of their normal PC. This is really not advised
> because of the
taxing program such as ACAD. 25 users logged in at one time
> running
ACAD in a heavy state would require a very expensive hardware to do
>
this. --

That, and
it's prohibited in the AutoCAD EULA.

Nick

[Anonymous]

You might want to review the EULA for the different software. I am pretty
sure this is not allowed under the ACAD EULA or supported. Basically this
sounds like a bad idea all around.

--
Nick

[Anonymous]

good point, Forgot to add that in.

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

"Nick" <
href="mailto:nick@vanlaardesigns.com">nick@vanlaardesigns.com> wrote in
message
href="news:6101891@discussion.autodesk.com">news:6101891@discussion.autodesk.com...

> The other thing your IT guy
might be talking about is using a server or
> single high powered
workstation in a virtual state where user log in and run
> ACAD off
that system instead of their normal PC. This is really not advised
>
because of the taxing program such as ACAD. 25 users logged in at one time

> running ACAD in a heavy state would require a very expensive
hardware to do
> this. --


size=2>

That,
and it's prohibited in the AutoCAD EULA.

style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">Nick

[Anonymous]

Greg,

Are the Autocad users, or most of them, going to be located in the same building or campus? If so, try looking at Cubix LaserCube-SX, www.cubix.com. My company just evaluated several blade computing solutions with various 3D CAD packages for a big project, and Cubix blew away SunRay and Dell on high-resolution graphics performance. Graphics are processed at the client, like a standard PC, while all files and HDDs reside on the blade workstation located in the server room, just like any thin-client configuration. However, their technology is hardware-based with no compression, and they use the latest Intel chipsets and processors. Your IT Department covers their corporate directive to go thin-client, but your AutoCAD users don't suffer from any performance issues.

dgrayson

[Anonymous]

Yes, point well taken. I will have to review it to make sure everything is
licensed properly. I wonder if a person could use network licenses in this
situation.

"Nick" wrote in message
news:6101902@discussion.autodesk.com...
You might want to review the EULA for the different software. I am pretty
sure this is not allowed under the ACAD EULA or supported. Basically this
sounds like a bad idea all around.

--
Nick

[Anonymous]

Sounds great. Thanks for the tip. I will check it out.

wrote in message news:6102148@discussion.autodesk.com...
Greg, Are the Autocad users, or most of them, going to be located in the
same building or campus? If so, try looking at Cubix LaserCube-SX,
www.cubix.com. My company just evaluated several blade computing solutions
with various 3D CAD packages for a big project, and Cubix blew away SunRay
and Dell on high-resolution graphics performance. Graphics are processed at
the client, like a standard PC, while all files and HDDs reside on the blade
workstation located in the server room, just like any thin-client
configuration. However, their technology is hardware-based with no
compression, and they use the latest Intel chipsets and processors. Your IT
Department covers their corporate directive to go thin-client, but your
AutoCAD users don't suffer from any performance issues. dgrayson

[Anonymous]

You're welcome Greg! By the way, since Cubix's technology only works in a single-user-per-blade configuration, you wouldn't violate any Autodesk EULA terms running AutoCAD on Cubix hardware. Last time I checked, they're building the blades with standard Intel chipsets and motherboards such as the new i7 and 5400/5450 for quad core Xeon configurations.

[Anonymous]

So does this mean that there is one blade server per user?
Why not just give everyone their own workstation?

wrote in message news:6105773@discussion.autodesk.com...
You're welcome Greg! By the way, since Cubix's technology only works
in a single-user-per-blade configuration, you wouldn't violate any Autodesk
EULA terms running AutoCAD on Cubix hardware. Last time I checked, they're
building the blades with standard Intel chipsets and motherboards such as
the new i7 and 5400/5450 for quad core Xeon configurations.

[Anonymous]

Yes, 1 blade per user. Why?
1. Centralized application, file, and hardware management
2. Greatly reduced PC footprint, heat, and noise in office
3. Security (which is a big one for my clients)

All PC motherboard items are located centrally within the IT data center, with the exception of the discrete graphics card(s), which is located remotely with the CAD operator. All executible files reside within the blade workstation inside the data center instead of the user's location, just like thin-client. However, since there is zero compression of the data going back and forth between client & host workstation, there is zero latency and a pristine image, regardless of network traffic.

Also, you don't have to be Citrix or VMware certified to manage the blades. There are no multimedia or local printer support issues, unlike thin-client. No blue screens of death, no 10-minute coffee breaks waiting for a screen refresh on a large CAD file, no mouse ghosting or soft images. You have Cubix tailor the blade and the client to your specific operator's needs instead of throwing as many processors and memory as you possibly can at the solution, then hoping it's enough while praying it doesn't crash and bring down multiple CAD operators. In short, I found that the Cubix solution provides 95% of the thin-client benefits while maintaining 100% of a PC workstation's performance features.

[Anonymous]

I work at a University as the tech and have looked into virtualizing our lab computers since they sit there idle at least 80% of the time. We are replacing 70 computers this summer in the Ind Tech department which use CAD (ProE, AutoDesk, etc) software. Using VMware View they wouldn't get (any?) 3D capabilities. So I'm interested in the Cubix solution. However, would that really mean I would need 70 blade servers? Our workstations aren't going to be that high end anyway (one dual-core 3GHz, 3GB RAM, 256mb Radeon GPU) as we only get about $1000 per computer, so I was think I could build a nice "backend" server setup for $70K. Any suggestions on a setup for us? I don't see all 70 being used at once for CAD drawing, but obviously professors wouldn't like it if we said only "these" computers will work for 3D drawings - plus I don't want to support the multiple setups there. Any ideas/suggestions???? Please! 🙂

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you are attempting. I do know
that Autodesk doesn't license Citrix server usage of the software (at
least not in a commercial environment) Contact Autodesk sales about what
options might be available. Probably just the usage of a license server
is available, and as long as there is no speed requirement, even the
systems specified will work in 3d, just at tortoise speed.

tailwindALWAYS wrote:
> I work at a University as the tech and have looked into virtualizing our
> lab computers since they sit there idle at least 80% of the time. We are
> replacing 70 computers this summer in the Ind Tech department which use
> CAD (ProE, AutoDesk, etc) software. Using VMware View they wouldn't get
> (any?) 3D capabilities. So I'm interested in the Cubix solution.
> However, would that really mean I would need 70 blade servers? Our
> workstations aren't going to be that high end anyway (one dual-core
> 3GHz, 3GB RAM, 256mb Radeon GPU) as we only get about $1000 per
> computer, so I was think I could build a nice "backend" server setup for
> $70K. Any suggestions on a setup for us? I don't see all 70 being used
> at once for CAD drawing, but obviously professors wouldn't like it if we
> said only "these" computers will work for 3D drawings - plus I don't
> want to support the multiple setups there. Any ideas/suggestions????
> Please! 🙂

[Anonymous]

I'm trying to attempt to save money! 🙂 Here's my thought/hope ...

We have 70 machines to replace with roughly $70K. After looking at VMware View I was thinking we could use the current workstations, Dell Optiplex GX280's, as fat clients and use the $70K for back end infrastructure. Handful of servers with 2-4 Quad-core Xeons and 64GB RAM running VMware ESX/View sharing the load across them all and one or more SANS for storage. Then next year, rather than replacing 60 other desktops, we put in more and/or upgrade servers and thus both labs now (the one with 70 and the one with 60) get a bump in resources we can hand out. So, rather than us putting average to nice desktops this year (probably Dell Optiplex 755's) and in 4 years they are bad machines, they would be getting a refresh every year!

Doesn't that make sense? It would be a perfect solution without CAD software. That's why I'm looking for other solutions/options.

[pcook12]

I do and don't. AutoCAD runs fine in the Fusion Virtual Machine environment but I can't find any mouse/driver combination that will allow the mouse to behave as in a normal PC environment - no pan function holding down the wheel. MIghty Mouse has a ball so I tried Fusion's recommendation of using MS bluetooth mouse. Still no functionality in trying to pan the view screen by holding down the wheel. Does anyone have any experience with this particular issue?

Pierre Cook
Houston TX

[Anonymous]

Hi Greg,

For what it's worth, at home I'm running AutoCad 2010 with Parallels, on a MacBook Pro, 2.3 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2GB 667 MHZ DDR2 Sdram. Mac OS x 10.5.7

Parallels allocating 512 mb of memory and 128 mb video memory, Windows XP. When I bump these up manually, performance drops.

AutoCad is fairly stable but runs very slow on this particular set up.

[Anonymous]

Did you guys succeed in Virtualizing, if so I would be very interested in knowing more...

Sanjay

[Anonymous]

I am a solutions provider looking to assist a client to replace his workstations running CAD products in a virtural environment.  they are running VMware Essentials Plus on the server side and View Premier on the desktop.

I wanted to know what a build would be for CAD on View %