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GLOBAL warming

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Message 1 of 48
Anonymous
948 Views, 47 Replies

GLOBAL warming

Well this is general discussion and i want to know what you guys feel.
It may be funny for some people to read this thread or to see it here, but i'm feeling the effects of global warming and its not funny, 49 degrees in shade. I realised that art has always been the reason the world changes( formally at least). Look at how movies influence the way we live and how we act.

How do you guys feel?
I've been trying to do a character for some time now and for 3 or 4 days i cant concentrate because of the heat.
47 REPLIES 47
Message 21 of 48
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

This whole thing has become a political bandwagon, and not only that, but its fucking over developing countries, such as in Africa, who are being told they cannot use their fossil fuel deposits, but must use alternatives -alternatives they can't afford.


This is bullshit.

But i think that earth is far more resilient than we give her credit for. She is going to be alright.


This is true, the planet will be quite happy whilst we continue to wipe ourselves out.

Whether you believe in global warming or not, fossil fuels are going to expire pretty soon.
Message 22 of 48
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

fossil fuels are going to expire pretty soon.


I hope so!
Message 23 of 48
in reply to: Anonymous



Oddity, I think you have misconception about solar energy. Solar panels are really cheap these days and the prices are continually dropping. And you only pay for them once.
When you buy fossil fuels, you pay endlessly (monthly, weekly), and the cost is, war, the destruction of lives and the land, and possibly global warming. Those people living in huts, if they could afford to pay for fossil fuels, would be better off spending their money on a 200 dollar solar panel.


How much power do you use? Could you run it off a solar panel? What happens during the rainy season?
Maybe they should build a wind turbine from bamboo and coconut shells.
Message 24 of 48
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

oddity do you have to be like this in every single post...u need like a hug or a teddy bear or something...i swear this is supposed to be a positive thread...u have to be single!
Message 25 of 48
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Curious topic for us Mudboxer's, but since I've just been pricing Solar arrays for a new home I thought I'd jump in. My quote was $30k US (installed). That's also using propane for stove, water heater, and furnace. Luckily, we have a small year round stream on the property that is capable of powering a small pelton wheel ($2k US), that surprisingly outputs about the same power. Here's a brief bit copied from howthingswork.com:

To calculate how many square inches of solar panel you need for a house, you need to know:
How much power the house consumes on average
Where the house is located (so you can calculate mean solar days, average rainfall, etc.). This question is impossible to answer unless you have a specific location in mind. We'll assume that on an average day the solar panels generate their maximum power for 5 hours.
The first question is actually pretty interesting, so let's work on it.
A "typical home" in America can use either electricity or gas to provide heat -- heat for the house, the hot water, the clothes dryer and the stove/oven. If you were to power a house with solar electricity, you would certainly use gas appliances because solar electricity is so expensive. This means that what you would be powering with solar electricity are things like the refrigerator, the lights, the computer, the TV, stereo equipment, motors in things like furnace fans and the washer, etc. Let's say that all of those things average out to 600 watts on average. Over the course of 24 hours, you need 600 watts * 24 hours = 14,400 watt-hours per day.
From our calculations and assumptions above, we know that a solar panel can generate 70 milliwatts per square inch * 5 hours = 350 milliwatt hours per day. Therefore you need about 41,000 square inches of solar panel for the house. That's a solar panel that measures about 285 square feet (about 26 square meters). That would cost around $16,000 right now. Then, because the sun only shines part of the time, you would need to purchase a battery bank, an inverter, etc., and that often doubles the cost of the installation.
If you want to have a small room air conditioner in your bedroom, double everything.
Because solar electricity is so expensive, you would normally go to great lengths to reduce your electricity consumption. Instead of a desktop computer and a monitor you would use a laptop computer. You would use fluorescent lights instead of incandescent. You would use a small B&W TV instead of a large color set. You would get a small, extremely efficient refrigerator. By doing these things you might be able to reduce your average power consumption to 100 watts. This would cut the size of your solar panel and its cost by a factor of 6, and this might bring it into the realm of possibility.
The thing to remember, however, is that 100 watts per hour purchased from the power grid would only cost about 24 cents a day right now, or $91 a year. That's why you don't see many solar houses unless they are in very remote locations. When it only costs about $100 a year to purchase power from the grid, it is hard to justify spending thousands of dollars on a solar system.



So....it ain't cheap. Long term, probably a good investment, certainly an environmentally ethical one. An engineer buddy told me that the manufacturing cost of photovoltaic cells is a hangup at present, but the future should be 'bright' (!!). (sorry for the enormous post)
Message 26 of 48
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

How much power do you use? Could you run it off a solar panel? What happens during the rainy season?
Maybe they should build a wind turbine from bamboo and coconut shells.


oddity, you weren't talking about how much it cost to run our homes. You were talking about people living in huts with minimal needs. For one of these huts it would be a one time cost of about $500 and that's it! The solar panel works off light so you can fill up a battery bank even on an overcast day. If you don't think it can be done this cheaply, check out this link. Here is a real world example that is more than enough for some hut in a village in nairobi.
www.otherpower.com/wardsolar.html

zaxxon: take a look at this article to show you where solar power is going
www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biztech/10/02/solar.cells.reut/index.html
and this
www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/02/19/ccview19.xml

Here is a link that addresses some of the solar power myths
www.lilith-ezine.com/articles/2005/solarpowered_myth.html
Message 27 of 48
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

zaxxon, yea man, i am studying architecture and this is why i said that by changing the direction of your work you can influence a lot of ppl. Obviously a lot more through architecture than through 3d, but i remember i started 3d very young and the works i saw back then changed my way of thinking and working. Besides this our future will be view dependent. I mean look at all the view interactive stuff u see on the web that inventors are putting out. It's all about image and we will be the ones making those images. So a little bit of the world's future may lie on our shoulders.

This is barely something that finds its place in a sculpting forum, but i always like ppl who get involved in an (ethically) important topic
Message 28 of 48
in reply to: Anonymous

oddity, you weren't talking about how much it cost to run our homes. You were talking about people living in huts with minimal needs. For one of these huts it would be a one time cost of about $500 and that's it! The solar panel works off light so you can fill up a battery bank even on an overcast day. If you don't think it can be done this cheaply, check out this link. Here is a real world example that is more than enough for some hut in a village in nairobi.


Exactly, so you want these people to live on the edge with bare necessities while you swank about with every modern convenience, burning more power every year that 1000 of them.
It's that sort of hypocrisy I was talking about in the first place. They have plenty of natural energy reserves, and they should be allowed to freely use them. That's exactly how the west built the power base it has, but we don't want anyone else to catch up, we're talking to them now like naughty kids who dont' know what's good for them.
Message 29 of 48
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Exactly, so you want these people to live on the edge with bare necessities while you swank about with every modern convenience, burning more power every year that 1000 of them.
It's that sort of hypocrisy I was talking about in the first place. They have plenty of natural energy reserves, and they should be allowed to freely use them. That's exactly how the west built the power base it has, but we don't want anyone else to catch up, we're talking to them now like naughty kids who dont' know what's good for them.


I have to agree with you there. They should be allowed to use their own resources. But again you have a misconception, it isn't the people who believe in alternative energy that are keeping them from their resources, it's the big multinationals from the big oil-guzzling countries, that are going down and taking their resources. It's the "anti-global warming theory people" that are keeping them from their resources.

If the developed countries were to adopt alternative measures for energy, the fossil fuels would be less valuable to us and this would not even be a conversation because the amount of fossil fuels the under developed would use for their own consumption would be minimal compared to what is used today.
But as long as the developed countries are dependent on fossil fuels, they will always be taking it from the under developed and selling it back to them. Do you think that the US would be in Iraq at all if they weren't so dependent on oil?

One of the great side effects of the movement to end global warming is the search for alternative energies. Green energy would put a stop to the raping and pillaging of the resources of third world nations making it available to them without having to buy them back.

Green energy is possible. There are already several green buildings here in New York, like the Hearst Building, that use alternative methods for energy and they've proven to be very successful.
Message 30 of 48
in reply to: Anonymous

I have to agree with you there. They should be allowed to use their own resources. But again you have a misconception, it isn't the people who believe in alternative energy that are keeping them from their resources, it's the big multinationals from the big oil-guzzling countries, that are going down and taking their resources. It's the "anti-global warming theory people" that are keeping them from their resources.

If the developed countries were to adopt alternative measures for energy, the fossil fuels would be less valuable to us and this would not even be a conversation because the amount of fossil fuels the under developed would use for their own consumption would be minimal compared to what is used today.
But as long as the developed countries are dependent on fossil fuels, they will always be taking it from the under developed and selling it back to them. Do you think that the US would be in Iraq at all if they weren't so dependent on oil?


It's obviously not as easy as that to develop alternate energy sources, even for rich developed countries, never mind poor countries struggling out of wars and debt, with internal squabbles and tribalism still rife among the people in control.
Your suggestions are naive.
And it is the 'global warming is casued by humans' people who are holding them back, telling them they have to so it the hard way, and it's just not happening. The 'global warming is natural' people would be more than happy to go in and build coal and oil guzzling power plants for them.
Maybe you can buy a solar panel to run a lightbulb for $200, but the sort of energy you need to run a power plant that generates electricity for a large area is not so easy, and I don't see why developing countries should be expected to forge this new way when developed nations are the ones responsible for using the world's resources and any global warming they claim resulted from it in the first place.
'Do as we say, not as we do' is the message..

One of the great side effects of the movement to end global warming is the search for alternative energies. Green energy would put a stop to the raping and pillaging of the resources of third world nations making it available to them without having to buy them back.


I doubt it, it would still be multinational companies going in and building their green power plants for them, and no doubt with borrowed money.
Message 31 of 48
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

oddity, you obviously misread my post. Go back and read it again.

For the record, the people who believe in global warming aren't telling them they should use alternative methods, (I don't know where you got that idea from, show me a link to a news report or something), they are telling us we need to not be so dependent on dirty energy.

By the way, solar energy isn't the only way, 20 years ago they invented a car in Brazil that runs off of alcohol made from cane sugar (but can be made from wheat, beets, etc..). It runs just as well and for a lot cheaper than oil-based cars. And it's clean energy. The development of these cars was sabotaged in the US by the big multinational oil companies.

seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002339093_brazilfuel17.html
virtualfactory.blogspot.com/2006/04/brazil-sugar-cane-bioplastics.html
www.populistamerica.com/brazil_using_sugar_cane_alcohol_instead_of_gasoline

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil

Again, one of the nice things about the crowd trying to stop global warming is that if we listen, we may possibly come up with lots better alternatives for energy production.

Read the links. This energy is so clean and it's 25% cheaper than oil. Surely there are considerably more alternatives as well.
Message 32 of 48
in reply to: Anonymous

IF it's so great and cheap, why aren't we using it then?
There have to be drawbacks.
Regardless of global warming, alternatives will have to be sought anyway, since oil, gas and coal reserves are not infinite. Alternatives were being sought long before any nonsense about global warming.

BTW, do a search on youtube for 'great global warming swindle' a documentary which went on on British TV a while ago. A lot of interesting information therein.
Message 33 of 48
A.Baroody
in reply to: Anonymous

What the hell has that got to do with a global warming topic?



What does it have to do with global warming? Its the very same exact mentality where people are expendable at all costs as long as profit is paramount to all, including basic human rights all the way up to the destruction of life itself.

That is what it has to do with it.

The exploitation of people and the environment will not end until we truly take some responsibility while making business decisions. The problem is the same.

We treat people like slaves whenever we can, and we beat the planet to death like a work mule. It's that simple.

Joe Rogan said it the best when he said we're the cancer of the planet.
Message 34 of 48
in reply to: Anonymous

Well, we are expendable, whether you like it or not. There's 7 billion of us infecting the planet, and we're all going to be dead in 100 years anyway (after using a million times the resources and energy of any other species and breeding 2 or 3 times our number) so what's the big deal. Nature won't mourn us, and neither will any other life on the planet.
Whether or not we stop putting a bit more CO2 into the atmosphere, is a complete non-issue.
Message 35 of 48
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

"If it's so great and cheap, why aren't we using it then?"

I think you failed to read the rest of his post or view the links. Its not the first alternative to oil thats been forcibly squashed by (largly) american oil companies.

Its like cigarette companies saying theres no proof they cause cancer and such. The difference is that they can't patent 'not-smoking' so they can't stop or monopolise it unlike oil companies and alternative fuels.
Message 36 of 48
A.Baroody
in reply to: Anonymous

Well, we are expendable, whether you like it or not. There's 7 billion of us infecting the planet, and we're all going to be dead in 100 years anyway (after using a million times the resources and energy of any other species and breeding 2 or 3 times our number) so what's the big deal. Nature won't mourn us, and neither will any other life on the planet.
Whether or not we stop putting a bit more CO2 into the atmosphere, is a complete non-issue.


Nature may not mourn you... but if you have children... they might be a little pissed that Daddy was so casual about their future.

You may think we're expendable, but your friends and family dont think you're expendible do they?

Yes, we live and die... i guess it just matters if you care at all about your family, your children... the people you supposedly love while you hopefully get your 100 years...

Its one big family out there Oddity. Sounds hippie, sounds religious, neither of which i am... but you surely can see how each of us have people that matter to us in our lives and i certainly dare not be so selfish with their future.
Message 37 of 48
in reply to: Anonymous

"If it's so great and cheap, why aren't we using it then?"

I think you failed to read the rest of his post or view the links. Its not the first alternative to oil thats been forcibly squashed by (largly) american oil companies.

Its like cigarette companies saying theres no proof they cause cancer and such. The difference is that they can't patent 'not-smoking' so they can't stop or monopolise it unlike oil companies and alternative fuels.

Yes, but nothing is ever that simple.
"Most will find Brazil's sugar-fuel strategy impossible to replicate. Few countries possess the acreage and climate needed to produce sugar cane in gargantuan quantities, much less the infrastructure to get it to the pump."
" huge investments in research are needed to bring the costs down for this so-called "cellulosic" ethanol"
Though as I said, we're going to have to find alternatives whatever happens, there will soon be no choice, it has nothing to do with global warming.
Now, instead of having to buy oil from the middle east, we'll have to buy ethanol form brasil.

Plus the fact that once the big multinationals really get their claws into sugar cane production, and the world really needs it, they'll think nothing of cutting down the rainforest to grow more of it.
Message 38 of 48
in reply to: Anonymous

Nature may not mourn you... but if you have children... they might be a little pissed that Daddy was so casual about their future.

You may think we're expendable, but your friends and family dont think you're expendible do they?

Yes, we live and die... i guess it just matters if you care at all about your family, your children... the people you supposedly love while you hopefully get your 100 years...

Its one big family out there Oddity. Sounds hippie, sounds religious, neither of which i am... but you surely can see how each of us have people that matter to us in our lives and i certainly dare not be so selfish with their future.


Dot worry about future generations, If they want to see a tree they can download a hologram of one from the internet.
Increases in technology will make up for any other deficit.
If I could choose any point in history to live, it would be now. Not 50 years ago, not 500 years ago, not 5000 years ago, and the same will be true if you ask someone in 2100.
The people driving the industrial revolutions in the 19th century could have thought pretty much the same thing. 'think of our great great grandchildren in 2000, their lives are going to be shit if we carry on raping the environment like this for our own profit', but they would have been wrong you see, our lives are much better than theirs, and the same will be true in 100 years time.
Message 39 of 48
A.Baroody
in reply to: Anonymous

The people driving the industrial revolutions in the 19th century could have thought pretty much the same thing. 'think of our great great grandchildren in 2000, their lives are going to be shit if we carry on raping the environment like this for our own profit', but they would have been wrong you see, our lives are much better than theirs, and the same will be true in 100 years time.


Yes, our lives are so great now because those in the industrial revolution were solving their own problems of their own era.

Perhaps this is the problem of our era to solve.

We have certainly created a lot of technology, that can not be denied... but many are using that technology to simulate global climate change, the formation of galaxies, the trajectories of space flights to other planets and others are sculpting creatures in 3d 😉

We've certainly come a long away, and we have many problems which need solving, many of which begin with a little bit of giving of ourselves. The first gift being that we recognize that we need each other and start acting like it. Thats not saying we cant profit, nor does that say that we'll solve all of our problems and start living in a utopian society. But it is certainly true that necessity is the mother of invention and many of our necessities specifically relate to the well being of humanity. Certainly that includes the need to not destory the only planet we have currently, if we can help it, we should try.

The history books will decide what to call this "revolution" and if it were even effective or needed.... but it is a problem in front of us (of course some disagree) but how would it hurt?
Message 40 of 48
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

IF it's so great and cheap, why aren't we using it then?
There have to be drawbacks.
Regardless of global warming, alternatives will have to be sought anyway, since oil, gas and coal reserves are not infinite. Alternatives were being sought long before any nonsense about global warming.

BTW, do a search on youtube for 'great global warming swindle' a documentary which went on on British TV a while ago. A lot of interesting information therein.

Come on oddity, you're too smart to use this argument. A lot of it comes down to business and luck. Windows is arguably the inferior to linux, osx, os/2, beos, and freebsd, so why is it in 90% of all the computers in the world. Because of some very smart manuevering from Bill Gates.

When I was a kid, I heard an interview on the radio with a guy who had invented a car that runs off the alcohol produced by wheat. He thought it would change the world. General Motors or one of those big multinationals bought the patent and shelved the technology. This kind of thing happens all the time.

The Brazilian cars run off ethanol made from cane suger because that's their biggest industry. But ethanol can be made from lot's of things, wheat, beets, rice, wood, grasses, grains, corn cobs, straw, sawdust, grapes, even from waste! In the US ethanol is made from wheat. In France it's made from grapes. The technology is all there, it's very similar to making beer or wine. The major oil copanies will go under if we all adopt ethanol so it is in their best interest to stifle the technology. And they are very powerful. Ethanol isn't more widely adopted because of them. It's the same with marijuana. It isn't legalized because the tobacco and alcohol industries are so powerful.

Back to the "Global warming" issue. (I happen to be completely agnostic on the issue). You are right, global warming isn't the only reason that we need to find other sources of energy. There are plenty of other reasons and they have been around for a while, but I welcome the fact that fear of global warming adds another reason to do this, because I do want to help try to pass this world on to my daughter in better shape than it is now.

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