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Polylining and BOMA Standard

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Message 1 of 41
josrios
1661 Views, 40 Replies

Polylining and BOMA Standard

I read that FmDesktop doesn't need plining because it automatically recognize de spaces. But for those whom understands BOMA, you know that each space type has a different perimeter or bounding line depending if its a floor common space, building common , vertical or usable area. How the automatic room recognition of FMDEsktop deals with the BOMA standard?
40 REPLIES 40
Message 2 of 41
Anonymous
in reply to: josrios

that's sort of true and sort of not quite true...

FMD recognizes spaces from ADT and Revit.
But, those have to be set up beforehand. I believe in ADT you can
manually create spaces or you can automatically generate spaces.
In Revit rooms (I believe! <- there's my disclaimer) are always measured
face to face.
And the Auto-generation of spaces done with ADT is also face to face
(not from center of wall or whatever other measurement you use).

So, bottom line is that FMD can record which type of space each is, but,
you still have to have some manual up front input into it.


Melanie Perry
***not all who wander are lost***
http://mistressofthedorkness.blogspot.com


josrios wrote:
> I read that FmDesktop doesn't need plining because it automatically recognize de spaces. But for those whom understands BOMA, you know that each space type has a different perimeter or bounding line depending if its a floor common space, building common , vertical or usable area. How the automatic room recognition of FMDEsktop deals with the BOMA standard?
Message 3 of 41
josrios
in reply to: josrios

What about using conventional AutoCAD? Does it work with AutoCAD , or justo with ADT or Revit? And how do I Change de boundaries in ADT or Revit if I need to go BOMA wish have diferent boundaries situations depending on space types?
Message 4 of 41
Anonymous
in reply to: josrios

In plain autocad our option is only plining (if we get to do fmd here,
I've requested a cross-grade to ADT... a couple hundred dollars)...

changing boundaries... I *believe* with ADT (i've created them, but, not
changed them yet and I don't have adt on this pc to try it out) you can
select a space and drag the corners where you need them.

But, with Revit, I'm pretty sure you don't have a choice (I'd like to be
proven wrong on that...) if I'm recalling correctly from my classes at
AU in December.


Melanie Perry
***not all who wander are lost***
http://mistressofthedorkness.blogspot.com




josrios wrote:
> What about using conventional AutoCAD? Does it work with AutoCAD , or justo with ADT or Revit? And how do I Change de boundaries in ADT or Revit if I need to go BOMA wish have diferent boundaries situations depending on space types?
Message 5 of 41
josrios
in reply to: josrios

Thanks for all that input!

I have 1.5 million SqFeet p-lined in AutoCAD, I use Facility Center (Tririga). I don' t see like a good idea to change all that to ADT room boundary method. So a migration from Facility Center to FMD should include all my AutoCAD files with p-lines. After all, the dirty job was made allready. Would that be your recomendation too?
Message 6 of 41
josrios
in reply to: josrios

I made a Space boundary in ADT. The trick is to change from left, right or center, as you make the space boundary. Then you can edit it, but as far as I went, if you make the change, all the boundary will get the selected trace,( If you pick Left, all the boundary will go left).
Message 7 of 41
josrios
in reply to: josrios

Also:

If your space has walls allready, you can set your space boundary to 0 thicknes and then trace around your walls like a conventional P-line. You can also create a Space around your walls and then convert it into a boundary. So far this is as tedious as p-lining is. I do not see the advantages! Maybe you have other opinion. Can you bring some light here?
Message 8 of 41
Anonymous
in reply to: josrios

No problem, I'm just happy to have another FMer to talk to, this group
is becoming more active and it's great (there is also an FMDesktop forum
on AUGI.com, I haven't logged in in awhile, so I'm not sure how busy it is)!

I suppose if your plining is already done, there wouldn't be all that
much use in going back and creating Spaces in ADT like someone starting
from scratch, but, I'd be interested in hearing other opinions on that
as well.


I haven't played with the space creation too much, but, I didn't do the
manual one.
I used the Space Auto-Generate command (I was using ADT 2007, I'm not
sure if it was available in previous versions).

josrios wrote:
> Also:
>
> If your space has walls already, you can set your space boundary to 0 thicknes and then trace around your walls like a conventional P-line. You can also create a Space around your walls and then convert it into a boundary. So far this is as tedious as p-lining is. I do not see the advantages! Maybe you have other opinion. Can you bring some light here?
Message 9 of 41
josrios
in reply to: josrios

In fact, I'm the new AUGI's hot news CAFM columnist begining (I think) March. I was here cheking on FMDesktop because Its been realy hard to find a trial version. Anyway, I'm doing some research here cheking on users issues, and also my own personal issues as you can see. I think I'll be doing a lot of this until I get my trial version "hopefully". I'm planning to review FMD on June so I'm gathering as much information as I can. I'll be talking about CAFM in general in my frist column and the typical p-line integration with AutoCAD. THen some tricks and tips about p-lining, BOMA, IFMA and then FMD.
Message 10 of 41
Anonymous
in reply to: josrios

oh. *very* cool. hopefully that will stir up discussions in my forums then.
:-) I should get back in there and make sure they're nice and tidy.
After all the time I spent harassing my husband, ever since he took on
the forum manager role, to put in the FM forums he is getting miffed
that I haven't been in there moderating them. HA! 😉 But, I've been busy
at night with a side gig and he knows that.

I look forward to your column with interest! I'm hoping to get approval
for at least a pilot project in FMD here this year. ~fingers crossed~
for me.

Did you get to go to AU this year? There were a lot of great FMDesktop
classes and I'm hoping there are even more this year.

The 2005 AU handouts are live on the augi site now, which will get some
good FM handouts from last year (including one on BOMA and IFMA
standards), but, nothing about FMD yet.



josrios wrote:
> In fact, I'm the new AUGI's hot news CAFM columnist begining (I think) March. I was here cheking on FMDesktop because Its been realy hard to find a trial version. Anyway, I'm doing some research here cheking on users issues, and also my own personal issues as you can see. I think I'll be doing a lot of this until I get my trial version "hopefully". I'm planning to review FMD on June so I'm gathering as much information as I can. I'll be talking about CAFM in general in my frist column and the typical p-line integration with AutoCAD. THen some tricks and tips about p-lining, BOMA, IFMA and then FMD..
Message 11 of 41
josrios
in reply to: josrios

Hi

THe thing with FM or CAFmM is that is almost new grounds for Autodesk. And the core of CAD users don't deal with CAFM. so now with all this new era of FMD I hope AU to include something this year. I've never been at an AU seminar or convention. I hope I can make it this year. I'm also planing something with FMD, but I want a trial demo. My company is under a cost control program, but at the same time we are going on SAP /ERP and i have to wrok something to improve our actual CAFM system, Facility Center.
Message 12 of 41
pajamabob
in reply to: josrios

All great discussions here. The bottom line is this...

If your drawings are already polylined for use in another CAFM system, no need to redo the work. FMDesktop can use what you have swimmingly. FMDesktop can work with AutoCAD, ADT and Revit, so choose your weapon.

As for AU...

One of my favorite places in the world to talk with facility professionals is AU. This year was a good preview of what you can expect for improvements in the Facilities track. More content, more training, more professionals, and yes...more FMDesktop!

Back on polylines for a minute...I would love to hear more about what works best. The spaces in ADT are very powerful, but can be complex. They are actually five separate polyamines that comprise a space object. Would a two component object (gross and net) be sufficient for most facility professionals?
Message 13 of 41
josrios
in reply to: josrios

I agree that spaces in ADT are very powerful and holds a lot of useful information. And we all know that the more information we have, the more precise we can be. For example, Spaces can give you information on heights and volume, this is great information for storage needs, also wall areas, useful for finishes estimates. But we have to go then to the industry standard practice. What is practical?, Vs. What is superb? I think that for a first step, and for most FM issues, bi-dimensional information is enough to do a great job. For that purpose, I don't see a big difference between p-lining or using space boundaries in terms of the manual entry of vector points. This is taking in consideration than when you use floor measuring standardsa as IFMA or BOMA you have to work around the boundaries of a spaces depending on its calsification. If you want to go CAFM today, My recommendation will be to go with spaces. You can use all that data as you wish by manipulating your DB and producing reports. If you need is just gross and Net area, you can get that from a the space object too. If you wish to change that in the future, just use your extra powerful data to take you beyond the standard practice. It is also about where you are standing with you actual FM software. In my case, with 1.5M SqFt. of p-lines, theres nothing much to do. But if I have a tool with the capability of handling more than bi-dimensional data, you bet I will go with better information with space objects. I want to add that not all CAFM software offers fields in their DB records to obtain all the data provided by objects. And most of them are designed to work with p-lines. Can Archibus handle ADT spaces?
Message 14 of 41
Anonymous
in reply to: josrios

AU had their first FM-specific courses back in 2004. Each year they add
a little bit more.
http://mistressofthedorkness.blogspot.com/2006/11/au2006-keys-to-successful-cafm.html
ah, I did write it down...
""This year at AU, there were 11 FM specific courses with a 71% signup
increase over last year. More than 500 individuals registered for the
various courses.
I've heard through the grapevine ~shifty eyes~ that if there are enough
good course proposals, that next year there could be a full Facilities
Management Track (16 courses). I've got my fingers crossed.""

So, there ya go.

Of course 2006 was the first year that there were any FM Desktop
classes, I'm asking for LABS! next year as they were all lectures this year.

I would STRONGLY STRONGLY STRONGLY recommend going to AU. You'll be
taught by the best in the business with less expense than going to a
local center for training AND you get to hand-pick your classes. And
this year the FM group was bigger than ever and I had SUCH a great time
pumping them for info. I hardly even saw my husband all week since he
was doing AutoCAD classes and working the Exhibit hall. So, yes,
something going on at all times. There was even a little private
reception for the FM'ers before the General Building reception one
night. That's enough to make you feel special right there. 😉

I'm afraid I don't know what SAP/ERP is and know less than nothing about
Facility Center. 🙂

I was told they don't have demos freely available because it's such a
recent acquisition that there are no licensing controls built into the
program yet.

Have you spoken with a reseller about getting some facetime with the
product? Personally, if I get FMD, I can't go through my current
reseller because they aren't handling it yet, but, there is a bigger
firm in town that's been answering all of my questions and provided me
with a quote, etc. 🙂

Melanie Perry
***not all who wander are lost***
http://mistressofthedorkness.blogspot.com

josrios wrote:
> Hi
>
> THe thing with FM or CAFmM is that is almost new grounds for Autodesk. And the core of CAD users don't deal with CAFM. so now with all this new era of FMD I hope AU to include something this year. I've never been at an AU seminar or convention. I hope I can make it this year. I'm also planing something with FMD, but I want a trial demo. My company is under a cost control program, but at the same time we are going on SAP /ERP and i have to wrok something to improve our actual CAFM system, Facility Center.
Message 15 of 41
Anonymous
in reply to: josrios

well, PjBob... about spaces... I'm thinking they're promising because
they have dimensions in 3D. I'm assuming that ALL comes into FMD? (I
haven't had time to try it yet).

I'm going to be using this for *Systems* Management before I do for
Asset Management, so the ability to see the volume of all spaces served
by a specific AHU 'zone' would be something I wouldn't want to give up.

oh, yeah, and let me show my noobness... what's a polyamine?

thanks. 🙂

Melanie Perry
***not all who wander are lost***
http://mistressofthedorkness.blogspot.com


pajamabob wrote:
> All great discussions here. The bottom line is this...
>
> If your drawings are already polylined for use in another CAFM system, no need to redo the work. FMDesktop can use what you have swimmingly. FMDesktop can work with AutoCAD, ADT and Revit, so choose your weapon.
>
> As for AU...
>
> One of my favorite places in the world to talk with facility professionals is AU. This year was a good preview of what you can expect for improvements in the Facilities track. More content, more training, more professionals, and yes...more FMDesktop!
>
> Back on polylines for a minute...I would love to hear more about what works best. The spaces in ADT are very powerful, but can be complex. They are actually five separate polyamines that comprise a space object. Would a two component object (gross and net) be sufficient for most facility professionals?
Message 16 of 41
josrios
in reply to: josrios

Hello!

This forum is getting very interesting. I'm working with a local dealer. My contact is getting in touch with Autodesk. He think maybe he can adquiere a license for me so I can work around FMD. This dealer is not into FM, but I think there is always a posibilty of a new sale. What I dont like is to feel compromised on doing an adquisition in the future.

About SAP/ERP

For the big enterprise, SAP (DB managemnet and fierest Oraccle Competitor) offeres tons of financial solutions.Contract management, tracking of internal transactions between units and departments, etc. These ERP (Enteprise Resources Planning) tools is a business management system that integrates all facets of the business, including planning, manufacturing, sales, and marketing. As the ERP methodology has become more popular, software applications have emerged to help business managers implement ERP in business activities such as inventory control, order tracking, customer service, finance and human resources. The thing is that all the operations of the enterprise are made under a roof, in a facility. So space data is a most. ERP tools are including some space tables to relate properties with buildings, rooms, departments and personel alocation, asset management,etc. very similar to CAFM. But in depth, ERP is not CAFM so the best practice is to integrate your current FM system with the new ERP so ERP can obtain all space information from CAFM. This can gets as comlpex as you like because now everything wil be measured, more than ever, in dollars and cents. Is very hard for me to get a view in where both systems overlaps. This friday I will have a Meeting with the SAP ERP people to debate if ERP should replace CAFM, and of course I'm against that. I will let you know!

Facility Center was pregrine flag ship CAFM software. Then it passed to Tririga wish has a join venture with Autodesk for the Hospitality Iindustry( I dont have the details about this). I have a feeling about something happening between Tririga and Autodesk in the future, but I will keep that for me.
Message 17 of 41
pajamabob
in reply to: josrios

So...

More data from spaces, and, maybe the BIM model too! Sounds interesting... 🙂
Message 18 of 41
josrios
in reply to: josrios

Your right! Why not? BMI can bring important fixed assets information. One thing is for sure. I see FMers going from a backstage postiton to key excecutives in the future. As web based aplications brings to the spot light many facility related issues that were not that present years ago, the Facility Department and Corporate Real Estate gets a key importance in the organization strategic planning. We can expect then that CAFM and BMI will be discussed widely algon with ERP in business magazines.
Message 19 of 41
josrios
in reply to: josrios

I mean BIM!
Message 20 of 41
Anonymous
in reply to: josrios

good... cause Body Mass Index isn't one of my favorite topics.
;-p

josrios wrote:
> I mean BIM!

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