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Active Member
m.soderlund
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎09-30-2011
Message 1 of 15 (2,166 Views)
Accepted Solution

Add custom render parameters to Radiance export

2166 Views, 14 Replies
11-21-2011 05:19 AM

Good afternooon,

 

I'm having trouble adding my own custom parameters whilst exporting daylight factor calculations to Radiance. Radiance/Ecotect ignores the custom parameters you've specified in the "Radiance analysis" wizard.

 

According to this post (http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/Autodesk-Ecotect-Analysis/Ecotect-does-not-keep-my-Radiance-parameters... ) the workaround would be to go through the Radiance Control Panel and save the "render="-parameters to the RIF file manually, which I've done. The problem tho is that when I now try to make a new export thro the wizard, it just overwrites my modified RIF file with the standard file and the radiance command prompt just shows the standard parameters. 

 

Is there any way to export to Radiance without writing over the RIF file?

 

I know I can use Radiance Control Panel and make a calculation from there but, as far as I know, you can only render a image from RCP and not import any grid/point values back to Ecotect, or have I missed something?

 

I'm running Ecotect Analysis 2011 with Desktop Radiance v.2.00 Beta or MinGW Radiance 2008-08-14 (tried both versions).

 

Please get back to me, it would be appreciated.

 

Regards

Mikael

 

Nevermind, I figured it out eventually.

 

Solution:

Change the .RIF file to your liking (the render= parameter) and then manually run the .BAT file Ecotect created for the project. When done calculating import the results in the newly created .OK file to Ecotect thru Grid Management -> Manage Grid Data -> Import Data. 

 

Voilá

 

 

Active Member
m.soderlund
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎09-30-2011
Message 2 of 15 (2,163 Views)

Re: Add custom render parameters to Radiance export

11-21-2011 06:09 AM in reply to: m.soderlund

I've done some more investigating and found out that it seems like the actual parameters that Radiance are using is inside the BAT file and not the RIF file. The BAT file includes the rtrace command with all parameters, and it looks like the standard -ab is set to 8 bounces. Is that correct? Doesn't radiance take the parameters set in the RIF file into consideration? 

 

I do get different results if I, for example, set the "Indirect Reflections" to different values in the Radiance Analysis wizard so the RIF file must be of some importance but it's quite unclear for me how right now.

 

Please share me your thoughts on the subject

 

Regards

Mikael

Active Member
m.soderlund
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎09-30-2011
Message 3 of 15 (2,157 Views)

Re: Add custom render parameters to Radiance export

11-23-2011 02:59 AM in reply to: m.soderlund

Nevermind, I figured it out eventually.

 

Solution:

Change the .RIF file to your liking (the render= parameter) and then manually run the .BAT file Ecotect created for the project. When done calculating import the results in the newly created .OK file to Ecotect thru Grid Management -> Manage Grid Data -> Import Data. 

 

Voilá

 

 

Member
javeds
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎12-02-2010
Message 4 of 15 (1,330 Views)

Re: Add custom render parameters to Radiance export

03-16-2013 10:14 PM in reply to: m.soderlund

I am trying to import data that I have generated using the rediance control panel into an ecotect analysis grid without success.  You seem to have solved the problem but I could not replicate your solution.  I would appreciate if you can explain your steps a bit further.  Thanks in advance!

Contributor
mercyfull_fate
Posts: 12
Registered: ‎09-23-2014
Message 5 of 15 (108 Views)

Re: Add custom render parameters to Radiance export

09-23-2014 06:17 AM in reply to: m.soderlund

my question seems related to the other questions:

 

What is the diference between the rtrace settings in the batch-file and the settings in the rif-file?

which should be altered for diferent settings in rtrace for grid calculations?

 

I would asume that the rif-file would only effect the radiance calculation and therefor the oct-file that is made and then used by rtrace, i would therefor assume the amount of reflections (-ab) set in the rif-file should have no effect on results in rtrace. However the amount set for -ab in the rif-file seems to have more effect then the amount for -ab in the batch-file on grid-calculation results.

Distinguished Contributor
Pennetier1
Posts: 138
Registered: ‎04-23-2010
Message 6 of 15 (91 Views)

Re: Add custom render parameters to Radiance export

09-24-2014 02:41 PM in reply to: mercyfull_fate

Hello mercyfull_fate, 

 

The rtrace settings in the batch file are originally created based on the settings set within the Ecotect wizard; this batch file is created from the settings of the RIF file.  Now, you can edit the settings of the RIF file with the RCP, save back as the same .rif file and re-run the file.  You will see that the DOS windows will first list the original settings - as per the first run based on the batch file - but then your modified .rif file will overwrite these original values.  You can see the new values in the DOS window if you keep reading the settings. So the settings in the batch file are the original settings from the first run, and the .rif settings are what will be used, as they are overwriting the original batch parameters.

 

The parameters of the batch file are derived from the original .rif file, so there should not be any differences in results.  Are you saying that when you edit your .rif file to have the same -ab value as your original batch file, the results come out different?

 

Cheers,

Olivier A. PENNETIER
Autodesk Ecotect Support Specialist
Contributor
mercyfull_fate
Posts: 12
Registered: ‎09-23-2014
Message 7 of 15 (85 Views)

Re: Add custom render parameters to Radiance export

09-25-2014 03:37 AM in reply to: Pennetier1

Hello Olivier A. Pennetier,

The general settings at the end of the export wizard go into the rif file. When calculating a grid there is an advanced parameters page in the wizard before the last page of the export wizard. The changes in those are put in the batchfile as settings for rtrace.
Both parameters, the rif file parameters and the rtrace parameters, are changed indipendently from each other.
I do notice the rif file settings being used as parameters in the first calculation which is shown in the dos window during calculations.

And the parameters in the batchfile for rtrace are being used as they do have effect but are not shown in the doswindow that apears during calculations.

Changes in both/either of the settings -ab value have effect on the rtrace calculation for the grid points. While i would asume that in the grid calculation the internal reflection (-ab) of only the rtrace settings should have effect. Or am i wrong in that asumption?

 

To ilustrate what i mean i added a document with the contents of the batch-file and the dos-window with in yellow the rtrace calculation/parameters and in green the radiance calculation for the generation of, among other things, the oct.file.

 

Kind regards,

Wouter

Distinguished Contributor
Pennetier1
Posts: 138
Registered: ‎04-23-2010
Message 8 of 15 (65 Views)

Re: Add custom render parameters to Radiance export

09-26-2014 11:12 AM in reply to: mercyfull_fate

Hello Wouter, 

 

I think I understand better your question.  It appears that the .bat file and settings set in the step 10 of 11 of the wizard are applied when using point/object lighting analysis, such as on the analysis grid; the setting set in the last summary page for the RIF file will be ignored; i.e. for a specific -ab setting in step 10 of 11, the indirect reflection setting for the RIF file in step 11 will not affect the grid/point results.

However, if what you are trying to do is create a Radiance rendering, then step 10 of 11 is by-passed and the setting for the RIF file in the last step of the wizard will be used.

This makes some sense as it is difficult to run a point/object analysis from a RIF file in the RCP and re-import the result in the Ecotect model; however, running RIF file in the RCP is straighforward when doing Radiance renderings.

 

Let me know if that makes sense; if so, please accept as a solution so that others can benefit from this information.


Cheers,

Olivier A. PENNETIER
Autodesk Ecotect Support Specialist
Contributor
mercyfull_fate
Posts: 12
Registered: ‎09-23-2014
Message 9 of 15 (58 Views)

Re: Add custom render parameters to Radiance export

09-29-2014 01:40 AM in reply to: Pennetier1

Hello Olivier,

 

I don't think you completely understand me however were getting there, if i understand what you mean then my problem is that that is not actualy happening in the calculation.

 

I did a test with the settings where i only adjusted the -ab settings in step 8/9 and the indirect reflections in step 9/9 and then i checked the daylightfactor results in a grid and put it in a excelsheet. The blank spaces indicate there are no changes compared to the calculation above. I have detail, variability and quality on medium:

 

Naamloos.png

 

So the settings in step 8/9 are the same as the settings for rtace in the .bat file, the settings from step 9/9 are the same as the settings in the .rif-file and in the .rif file render= settings supersede the basic settings. I understand all that.

 

However my problem is that both the -ab setting from step 8 and 9 have an (simultanious) effect on the calculationresults of the grid.

 

I'm aware the diferences in results for this case are negligible however i am trying to validate the programs for my thesis so i do need to know where the diferences come from.

 

Regards,

Wouter

Distinguished Contributor
Pennetier1
Posts: 138
Registered: ‎04-23-2010
Message 10 of 15 (52 Views)

Re: Add custom render parameters to Radiance export

09-29-2014 03:00 PM in reply to: mercyfull_fate

Hi Wouter, 

 

I agree there should not be any differences, i.e., the results should be the same when the -ab of 8/9 is set to a particular value and the indirect reflection is whatever value; I could not reproduce your results.  I have ran quite a few tests on this as well, and I always get the same results for a particular -ab as set in 8/9 (.bat), regardless of the indirect bouncing in 9/9 (.rif).  I have tried this for illuminance calculations as well as Daylight Factor, on both a grid and a single point object.

 

I am curious to know what is causing the shift on your side. Can you print screen and show me your final settings (9/9) so I can try to reproduce.  Maybe another setting such as interior/exterior view is causing the shift?

 

Cheers,

Olivier A. PENNETIER
Autodesk Ecotect Support Specialist
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