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New EAGLE licensing

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Message 1 of 269
jorge_garcia2
34102 Views, 268 Replies

New EAGLE licensing

Hello Everyone,

 

In this post we will be briefly describing how the new subscription model for EAGLE works.

 

Firstly, the Autodesk licensing model is subscription based and the EAGLE paid license will require that you install the SW and then generate an account on accounts.autodesk.com to retrieve your license entitlement.   

 

If you lose your network connection, the SW has a 14-day heartbeat that will enable you to work offline for 14 days.

 

All of your data is stored locally, so you are in complete control of your data.

 

We will continue to provide the freeware version of EAGLE. In order to use it you will still need to register an account with Autodesk.

 

In an upcoming release we will be adjusting the software so in the worst case scenario, where internet is unavailable past 14 days, the software will revert to free mode. That way you can always review your designs.

 

You can review the current EAGLE pricing by visiting this page.



Jorge Garcia
​Product Support Specialist for Fusion 360 and EAGLE

Kudos are much appreciated if the information I have shared is helpful to you and/or others.

Did this resolve your issue? Please accept it "As a Solution" so others may benefit from it.
268 REPLIES 268
Message 21 of 269
jorge_garcia2
in reply to: bikerglen

Hi bikerglen,

You can download all older versions of EAGLE from ftp.cadsoft.de/eagle/program.

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Best Regards,


Jorge Garcia
​Product Support Specialist for Fusion 360 and EAGLE

Kudos are much appreciated if the information I have shared is helpful to you and/or others.

Did this resolve your issue? Please accept it "As a Solution" so others may benefit from it.
Message 22 of 269

We'll provide an upgrade path to EAGLE v8.0 here very soon!  Expect an email about upgrades very soon.

 

Best regards,


Matt

Message 23 of 269
matt.berggren
in reply to: danders.dev

Thanks for your post.  We haven't any plans to drop support for Linux and in fact, worked exceedingly hard to extend the ADSK licensing system to support Linux for EAGLE.  This was not a trivial exercise and was something we deemed essential for the future success of EAGLE.  

 

With regard to 7.7, please by all means continue to use it.  We'd rather you used that then jumped ship and I, for one, hope to demonstrate enough value with EAGLE that you're compelled to upgrade when the capabilities of the software (better routing, better polygon handling, better DRC and design rules, hierarchy, etc.)

 

Best regards,

 

Matt

Message 24 of 269

I've been an Eagle user since 2003.  It's always been my go-to for PCB design and I've always found it to be simple, effective and reliable.  I've never had a project that couldn't be done in Eagle, including some fairly advanced features. I'm disappointed with this subscription model and have no intention of migrating to it, and it is sad being faced with the realization of parting ways with a tool that has been useful for so long and that I've tried to sell to other engineers.

 

About 1/3 of my design work is with more than 2 signal layers, which means I have to pay $500 per year.  Never have I needed 99 schematic sheets (let alone 999 sheets), but higher layer count is certainly required.  $500/year for the pleasure of more than 2 layers is ridiculous.

 

I am at a crossroads here, though.  I never tried Kicad - no reason to if you already have an Eagle license.  But suddenly I'm seriously thinking of checking it out. It sounds like it is reaching or has reached a level of stable production.

 

Altium is indeed more advanced and has many features I wish Eagle had, even though I'd say that I've never had a project that only Altium could do and Eagle could not.  It's just that doing some equivalent things in Eagle requires more manual work.  However, Altium can also be unstable and cause havoc (I've seen Altium absolutely trash projects, but never in Eagle, and to this day Altium will freeze up once in a while). But with this Eagle subscription pricing, the price difference between Altium and Eagle is suddenly not as large as it used to be.

 

Or I can hold on to version 7.7 and see how long I last.  I'm hoping that Autodesk sees the light and reverts to the original licensing, maybe with a small upgrade fee to v8.  I'd pay that.  But not $500/year/seat - in my book that puts it in the same cost/feature class as Altium.

Message 25 of 269

We have an upgrade path we'll roll out next week!  Sorry this wasn't timed alongside the release but if you need the upgrade in the meantime, please ping lourdes.vasquez@autodesk.com.

 

Best regards,


Matt

Message 26 of 269

Hi!

 

Curious, with regard to the "we do only a few boards a year" argument...Why wouldn't you prefer to only pay for the SW if/when you need it?  This is at the heart of the subscription model.  The software becomes affordable for someone who uses it only time to time and it can be turned off any time, if/when you decide you dont need it or the features are something you feel didnt live up to your expectations / meet your needs.  

 

Best regards,

 

Matt - Autodesk.

Message 27 of 269
matt.berggren
in reply to: rc

Sorry if this isn't clear just yet...We'll provide a legacy user promotion soon!  

 

Best regards,

 

Matt

Message 28 of 269

On the pricing page, there must be something wrong. Previously the Standard edition allowed to create boards with up to 6 layers. Seems like 4 layers have gone missing. 😞

 

Are you serious about only supporting double-sided boards with Standard edition? That would be big no-go for our future use of Eagle. Since when you are designing smallish boards with smd parts and uC, four layers are becoming the must even at the hobby level. You can't seriously expect hobbyists and designers of simple small boards to pay for an edition capable of making elephant ear sized multilayer boards just to design board with 4 layers, do you?

 

I hope there is some room for licensing refinement. We bought v7 Standard edition mailny because of need to design 4 layer boards. Now you want unjustifiable amount of money for functionality we would not be able to utilize. Currently there is no viable path for us to upgrade and continue using Eagle.

Message 29 of 269
caitsith2
in reply to: martin.darebny2

I too was possibly willing to use the normal edition subscription licensing, but will NOT do so, unless they revert the number of layers on that license back to AT LEAST 4.  It was formerly 4, then upped to 6 on the Normal edition.  Why the sudden downgrade to 2 layers for that license.

Message 30 of 269

Wow you kept that one quiet. I picked up an Eagle license 6 weeks ago. Six weeks of support for that version. Good luck turning customers into consumers is all I can say. I don't appreciate the contempt.

Message 31 of 269
gnalven
in reply to: jorge_garcia2

WOW what a fire storm!

 

I realize now that since I have a 3 seat license my cost would go from about $200 per year to $1500 per year. Nice work if you can get it. Plus the original investment and all the upgrades through the years. The ad says the new cost is only 50 cents a day which I would gladly pay for the days that I use it.

 

I think that most of us old time users are entrepreneurs and experimenters. I use it for business and personal and actually have two licenses. We choose EAGLE because it was a good product at a price we could afford. It's price/performance ratio was good. We are all smart and I think my use of Eagle was a good choice for the many years I have used it. It has been very stable (important) and accurate (also), I did not mind that it did not have all the bells and whistles; it was what I could afford.

 

I looked around out there and did not see an obvious replacement.

 

I suggest this: Everyone should just calm down. There is no immediate problem and the existing product should last us a year at a minimum. Let's see how this shakes out before we jump ship. I cannot imagine the CadSoft peps that I dealt with over the years (giving excellent customer service I may add) are happy about this either. If autodesk want so change the nature of the product I don't think many of us will stay, or can even afford to if we wanted too.

 

In my professionl opinion, no immediate emergency no need to act hastily. Wait and see. Gary - Linortek

Message 32 of 269
technics1979
in reply to: gnalven

That's the thing. How can you trust a corporation willing to do the bait and switch any time they think it will help the bottom line? Some understand the long term benefits to shareholders from happy customers and some just want the quick buck now or apparently the sweet constant revenue stream.

 

I could carry on with 7.7 because I really only need to be able to lay down a schematic and route out the traces from the ratsnest. Unless version 8 can read my mind, dump that into a schematic and do a proper job of routing it the way I want any wizz bang feature probably isn't going to be all that interesting.

 

I (and no doubt others) won't be going to Eagle 8. Not because of the price but because of demonstrated willingness of the supplier to fix what isn't broken. I wont risk any new designs to the old version because who knows what will happen to the software needed to support it in future.

 

So can I get a refund on that six week old license? Should I speak to the company I purchased it through (Element14)?

Message 33 of 269
bborun
in reply to: rc

Imagine my chagrin...

 

A mere twelve days ago I upgraded my single user licence to an EAGLE Ultimate 3-User Licence from the CADSoft site. I tried to update from version 7.6.0 to version 7.7.0 only to find that I no longer had access to the software but was faced with a unilaterally imposed restriction forcing me to subscribe in order to get anything but the brain-dead freeware version.

 

Now, I would like to know which moron decided to abrogate AUTODESK's obligation to fulfil its licensing obligations to its existing albeit inherited user base.

 

I paid for †he software now provide me with my contracted updates!!!!!

Message 34 of 269
technics1979
in reply to: bborun

If you purchased 12 days ago they didn't inherit you at all. They willing took your pesos knowing this would happen then ran away.

Message 35 of 269
bborun
in reply to: bobjohnsonLFZAL


@bobjohnsonLFZAL wrote:

...I'm sure the 'keep paying for software indefinitely' model makes sense to the owners of that software in some boardroom...

 

 

Only if they're some Harvard MBA rtard.

Message 36 of 269
bmeyer8J5TU
in reply to: matt.berggren

I’m sorry Matt, but this is going to be a very long message and it really does cover some issues with the Eagle v8 license change that either AutoDesk has not considered or has considered but simply have not communicated, so bear with me.

 

I’m also going to be a bit testy here as the CAD software is akin to religion and the reason for that is that it takes a huge investment of time (not to mention money) to get across the various packages so, that when a vendor starts changing stuff in that software, the users are generally going to get very, very irritable very quickly ….

 

So … let’s start …

 

What the hell is it with Eagle that is so hard regarding the licensing? Seriously?

 

You would have thought that after the V5-V6 licensing debacle, that others would have learnt, bit appears no ... that is not the case. 😞

 

Not to be critical Matt, but this whole issue has NOT been handled well at all, and the issue here at play isn't the software ... it's the licensing. You know that there is a problem when the topic of focus isn't actually the software - and really it should be.

 

Ok, lets' start off. Subscriptions ... There are three effective means of implementing subscription software:

 

1. Pay money to turn it on and get any data.

 

No money (i.e. no subscription) = no data. The user is held hostage. This can be implemented in a number of ways .... for example ... 100% online services ... or software activated via time locked license key (e.g. That absolutely EVIL pile of crap called LMGRD). This by far the most *EVIL* of all SaaS models and any company who still does this *NEEDS TO DIE*. Any company that does this these days, needs to go bankrupt and the people responsible for said decisions need to suffer. I say this as a person who has had to deal with supporting old devices when software for programming PLD devices was either no longer available, or could no longer be "activated" in order to implement a safety fix in a product.  

 

Can you image being told that you can't look at a picture of your wife and kids without paying someone money?  Outrageous yes, but you get the idea.  

 

2. Rental type subscriptions.

 

The user data, stays the control of the user. It is always accessible by the user, and the software will always allow the user to retrieve his/her data. Exporting/printing/viewing is always possible even if changing isn’t due to a lack of valid subscription. It’s not completely EVIL, but it does demand that the user keep paying for “features” that they may not actually want if they want to keep using the software. In other words, the user wants X, Y and Z but that is all they want. They don’t want the bills and whistles, of A, B and C but in order to keep using X, Y and Z, they still have to keep paying, so it is still EVIL, just not as much so as the 1st type ... 

 

3. Feature subscriptions.

 

I say feature vs fix as there *IS* a difference, and that is fixes are for something that is known to be broken (for example ... a library has the "wrong" pin assignment, or using a specific feature causes the application to crash or it eats your data). That is a bug. That needs a fix, and *anyone* who has at least paid for the software, in any form, is entitled to a product that does what it says it does (if it cooks your eggs, then it should cook your eggs without burning them). A feature subscription is where enhancements are added, and for this, this is definitely a chargeable extension. You want the newest features, supply a credit card. You want eggs *and* bacon, then you pay a bit and you are entitled to get the "bacon" module as an add-on.

 

"Improvements" are feature extensions, so a major re-write of the auto-router is a feature enhancement compared to say a fix to the auto router where it attempts to lay a track across the middle of a drill hole (that would be called a bug).

 

Ok, so those are the models. Fair and easy enough.

 

So what do we have? We have a model that is something hybrid of #2 ... something that is inherently EVIL, but at least you allow people to look at their designs if they choose/unable to keep paying the subscription.

 

But herein lies a problem. In order for “rental” to work, it has to be online.

 

Now for 99% of the user base, this will probably be fine. After all ... 99% of the time, a user will be connected. What happens when you aren't? According to your own FAQs/support responses, a connection needs to be re-established after 14 days.

 

What the hell happens if after 14 days, you still aren't online and you work? According to you as the vendor, the software stops working.

 

Matt ... you've spent a bit of time in AU, so on a map of AU, draw a circle around those areas that have mobile coverage. Seriously .. do it. I'll wait.

 

... no map, ok.

 

Jump on the AU Telstra site, and look at their coverage map. Good coverage on the east cost, round Tassie a few spots on the western edge ... but bugger all in the middle.

 

Not real good is it. But hey, this is AU, so we can expect that. So what happens if you are working for say a month or so in a location where there is *no* coverage and no internet.

 

Beyond belief? Nope. Sorry ... dude. That's what I do for a living (typically 40+ days at a time).

 

Now according to you, that means I'm only able to use the software for 14 of the fist 40 days - in other words .... it unusable for on average ... 16 days out of 40 (on average) ....

 

… and this *assuming* that the user can actually “activate” the software. What happens to software on a workstation that *only* lives in a internet free environment (i.e. … there isn’t any internet)?

 

According to you … well … you can’t.

 

What the hell are people smoking there ... because whatever it is ... they should be sharing.

 

Look, I really can understand the rental software model - honestly I can, but this online connection requirement is complete and utter bollocks and while it will work for *most* of your user base, it is going to cause a huge problem for some.

 

In short, the Eagle v8 licensing is a huge shamozzle - no ... really it is.

 

It has been made even worse, by the hap-hazzard way that it has just been pushed out. Add to this the fact that little or “no” migration information has been sent to the existing users.

 

Rule #1 … don’t alienate your existing customer base – they are why you are still here.

 

Rule #2 … make sure you provide a clear and concise migration path for the existing user base. What happens for those who have already paid you large sums of money (thanks for the ride but get lost unless you can give us some more?) The only thing I could find from anyone in terms of a migration path for existing users was a message from you that basically said “watch this space” … well … hang on, this needs to have been sorted out already – not after the fact.

 

Rule #3 … What happens to those customers where the new licensing model just does NOT work. There will always be some, so what options do you provide for them?

 

“Stay with V7.7 for now?”

 

I can find no other viable alternative.  I can only speak from my own experience and how Eagle is used in my own organisation, and that is the "Feature" subscription would be right for us.  Pay the $$$ and get the various feature updates for a fixed amount of time for the seat count that we have - for us ...it's easy.  3 machines.... two are workstations, one is mobile, I can only use a maximum of two license at a time because I haven't been able to be in more than one place at a time, and I only have one guy working for me.  Offline update .... works a treat ... up until now that is ....

 

Two are "disconnected" 99% of the time ... one (my laptop) is connected and then disconnected when I'm on-site.  

 

So what do I do?  Answer???  No idea.  I have been able to find absolutely nothing, and this should have been thought out well in advance.

 

Finally, and this is something that you personally really need to take to heart. It is ok to change your mind, or change your stance if have to, but when you do, then you need to communicate that this has happened and as to why.

 

What I mean by this is that you went on record as saying:

 

“Eagle will, of course, be integrated with other Autodesk products – the entire point of Autodesk buying Eagle is for full-stack hardware development, from mechanical design to electronic. Whether this means Eagle will become a subscription-only model is still up in the air, but from the casual observer’s position it’s doubtful; there are still perpetual licenses of Eagle out there, and right now that’s what Autodesk is selling”.

 

 

You need to “fess up” and say that:

a) it changed

b) why the previous decision had to be revoked.

 

People (and specifically your customers) are not abject about a supply vendor having to change their terms if circumstances change, but they should NOT be finding out about it AFTER the fact.

 

Be honest and up front.

 

I'm your customer.  I should not be finding out about the license changes, and how it affects me AFTER the fact - that just isn't on, and NO .... burying it in 20 pages of legalese does NOT count....

 

Message 37 of 269
technics1979
in reply to: bmeyer8J5TU

I agree with pretty much all of this. I will be contacting Element14 in Australia on Monday regarding a refund of my recent license purchase. The website specifically promised "Free maintenance and support." which apparently won't be delivered. A clear violation of the rights I have under Australian Consumer Law.

 

The web-page is still up here incidentally:

 

http://au.element14.com/cadsoft

 

and or course archived on the WaybackMachine

 

I would not consider what I ordered to be what I received.

Message 38 of 269

If I just need to pay when using the software it's really good. Nothing in the the subscription models except cloud services like Amazon AWS and the like, offers this. For payment I would much prefer either a pre-paid model like Skype or a summary invoice once a year. Handling monthly bills is a nuisance.

Message 39 of 269

Hello!

Curious, with regard to the "we do only a few boards a year" argument...Why wouldn't you prefer to only pay for the SW if/when you need it?

 

Simply because the new model is not reflecting the customer requirements. A few boards means less speed in design. A board could require 2-3 months of time passed but only few hours of actual work per week with the program. This could easily lead to a 10-12 Month subscription.

 

I do not understand why companies try to force loyal customers to do things they dislike. Cloud services and license subscription models are often based on legal reasons a NoGo. Think about companies working as contractors. I'm signing NDAs where I have to guarantee several things. I can't go to a subscription license as one of my working desks has to be offline. What is the answer here?

 

Please think about the decission Eagle has a loyal community. They expect a loyal SW provider.

Arnold Huebsch

Message 40 of 269
fonitronik
in reply to: jorge_garcia2

Sorry, you lost me.

I recently upgraded to the professional edition, which will help me out for a while. It was a larger investment for my small business.

 

500.- EUR/year? Are you kidding me? Even if you granted me discount for a while, this is not what i wanted.

I don't needed to update to the newest versions in the past, and i don't need or want the newest version today.

I don't want to be forced to do that.

I just want to use the version i paid for as long as i want.

So for me the price skyrocketed.

 

Now i will have to learn another software (I will try KiCad or DipTrace). I mean, 2 years of your description buys me a Diptrace version that will last for years.

 

(BTW it is sad to see what happened to Cadsoft Eagle. Once a small local company, it is now sold out and will be monetarized by Autodesk. I hope that either you will revert the licensing model or that you offended enough users and you lose the money you paid for Eagle)

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