alternatives to eagle

[Anonymous]

Like me I'm sure many of you were using Eagle precisely because they did NOT have screw-your-customer-subscription-model.

I have been an eagle customer since 1.0.  I use to get tech support directly from Klaus 🙂  I'm so freaking disappointed.

I'll have to use 7.6.0 for the time being.  It seems stable enough that it may be good enough for my work for at least a couple of more years, maybe longer.

So I am looking for recommendations for a different schematic capture/board layout program.  The choices are getting quite thin.  A lot of ridiculously expensive pay-for-it-all-the-time programs out there.

I'll start things off with KiCAD which I have already seen mentioned several times.

http://kicad-pcb.org/

i have not used it yet, but I'll certainly be trying it out soon.

RIP Eagle.

[edwin.robledo · Accepted solution]

Hi Copperwheel,

Thank you for participating on our forum and posting your concerns. We are sadden that you are looking for an alternative after being a loyal legacy user, I had the opportunity to work next to Klaus for many years.  If you kept your EAGLE license progressively current, the investment is almost the same.  With this new model, you are assured that EAGLE will continuously be updated and automatically have access to it. I sincerely hope you give it a try.
Best Regards,

Ed

[Anonymous · Accepted solution]

"the investment is almost the same"

You are kidding right ?

I've been using eagle for many years, something like 15 years and I've had a pro license for the last 9 years or so. I don't have the full history, but since 2012 and to this day, I paid for two upgrades (5 to 6 to 7) at 448 EUR each. That's an average of 180 EUR per year. With your model I'm at 470 EUR (500$ at current exchange rate) per year. That' 2.62x more expensive ! Not quite "almost the same" ....

That's also not mentioning the fact that should I not really need or want the new features, I need to keep paying to continue to view and edit my old designs.

I for one will also be moving away from eagle too.

[Anonymous · Accepted solution]

No it's not the same. A 3-user License would cost 1635 EUR a year. That is more than 3-user license for PCB and schematic (no autorouter) was and A LOT more expensive than upgrade. There is a new version about every 2-3 years. So for me it's 4905 per 3 years. I didn't even spend that amount on upgrades from 4 to 5 to 6 to 7... And that took more than 10 years. So bull**** that the investment is the same. Sure, when you only look at single user, full capabilities AND looking at price of new version, not upgrades.

[Anonymous · Accepted solution]

With this new model, you are assured that EAGLE will continuously be updated and automatically have access to it.

Well this is the problem isn't it, I won't automatically have access to it.  Your whole licensing scheme is predicated on holding my design hostage.

When i don't have an internet connection i won't have access to THE SOFTWARE I'VE PAYED FOR.

Someday when I cancel my subscription I will no longer have access to my designs.

Anybody who voluntarily signs up for this scheme is crazy.

Another possible alternative:

http://diptrace.com/

[Anonymous · Accepted solution]

What about compatibilty? There are a number of suppliers who accept EAGLE. Is that the same with KICAD?

[jorge_garcia · Accepted solution]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

With this new model, you are assured that EAGLE will continuously be updated and automatically have access to it.

Well this is the problem isn't it, I won't automatically have access to it.  Your whole licensing scheme is predicated on holding my design hostage.

This is not correct, you always have the design files.

When i don't have an internet connection i won't have access to THE SOFTWARE I'VE PAYED FOR.

Also not true, remember that the software has a 14 day heartbeat so you can be offline for 14 days without consequence of any sort.

Someday when I cancel my subscription I will no longer have access to my designs.

If the software continues to improve and provide value to you then there isn't much of a reason to cancel right? It now falls on us to continuously earn your money. EAGLE has improved more in the last three months under Autodesk than it did in the last three years with Farnell. That should show tell you something about the commitment of Autodesk to EAGLE.

With that said, if you were to cancel your subscription you would still be able to review your designs in Free mode.

[edwin.robledo · Accepted solution]

Hi Copperwheel,

My overzealous answer only works with the current pricing structure in a 4 year upgrade span scenario.  I didn't intend to portray the wrong message to this group.  Subscription does make the program affordable since the upfront investment is affordable. Instead of with an upfront payment of US$1640, you can begin to work on your design for US$65/month, always using the latest version.  This licensing allows the flexibility to change your subscription type depending your design needs. We hope everyone will continue using EAGLE as your program of choice for your PCB needs as we will continue adding features to make your design time as efficient as possible.  Give it a try, there is a good chance you will like it.

Best Regards,

Ed

[wingedpower · Accepted solution]

This discussion reminds me ALOT of the Adobe discussion regarding Creative Cloud. 

I'm relatively new to Eagle. Been using it for about a year or so and have found it to be a good piece of software. I've tried other solutions out there and am also in the process of reviewing other solutions. (KiCad and Altium... though let's face it, Altium is Windows-only and costs significantly more).

Alot of people are suggesting KiCad as an alternative to Eagle. (Also very similar to the discussion regarding alternatives to Photoshop/Lightroom/etc. re: Adobe discussions). But in the end, I stuck with the Adobe workflow because it works for me and while it does kinda suck to pay a monthly subscription, I also got to use a number of tools from Adobe.

With Autodesk/Eagle, I'm currently subscribing to the $15/month plan to check out Autodesk's changes to Eagle. So far, I like alot of what I see and there are features which I'd like to see work better. One thing that I noticed that I'm getting with the Autodesk version is more PCB real estate. 160 cm^2 is a good chunk of space to work with. That in and of itself is a nice improvement over the Eagle 7 I was using previously.

I can see myself trying out the higher tier for a couple of months to work on a project for something that needs more than 2 layers. So from that perspective, the pricing is very flexible and offers some serious benefits. 

Not being able to "buy the software" outright and have a standalone copy to use indefinitely kinda sucks. 😞 While 14 days is a nice amount of time, I can see some situations where if you are working on an isolated machine you don't want connecting to the internet, that can pose issues. 

As for KiCad(or alternative programs) the key issue for me is that it is a conglomeration of programs by different parties required to work together to equate to the same feature set of Eagle. KiCad has some nice features and I'm still working out how to do Eagle-things in KiCad. But seriously, I suspect many people will stick with Eagle because it's a good price point. The subscription model does work out to a higher price, especially if you take into account an amortization for those who buy a copy and basically use it for 5-8 years and finally get around to upgrading a few versions down the line. 

Having been an Adobe Creative Cloud subscriber for a couple of years now, I find the stream of updates that comes down the pipe is actually a Good Thing(tm) as I'm making incremental updates vs large version upgrades. 

But that's just my 2 cents. For some folks, there is a much higher price sensitivity. I see myself subscribing to the $15/month model(maybe switch to $100/year to save that $60/year).

What I hope to see from Autodesk for the continued subscription model, though, is a matched continual stream of updates that improves the product. Things like a clean and well maintained components library that one can sync between machines/installations. Expansion to cover various kinds of components. Better searching. PCB templates for common board times: PC104, PCI, PCIe, BeagleBone Capes, etc. etc.

I tried the 3d imaging service and there are so few components in there that it's more or less a blocky rendering at this point. I would like to see it expand to cover more components so that it's a seamless experience.

Just my 2 cents.

[Anonymous · Accepted solution]

I'm relatively new to Eagle. Been using it for about a year or so and have found it to be a good piece of software.

It IS a good piece of software. I was always happy to tell people how good Eagle is and that it is  a legitimate example of software done right.

Another thing that made it good was the don't-abuse-your-customers licensing model, hence the reason at least some of us are extremely unhappy.

[Anonymous]

Folks!

Many people use eagle BECAUSE is has a traditional licensing model. If the only option to use it is an subscription those users will run away. This is as simple as this. So Autodesk do your math. I guess you have bought Eagle to make money. This can only be done if you keep customers. A subscription model is for many a strict nogo. I will definitely not subsribe. I'm a professional SW developper and I agree to pay for SW. Many products go deinstalled because they moved over to online subsription and forced people to store their data in a cloud. I extect this will be the next step on Eagle rules.

This raises the question what are the alternatives. RS-Components offer Design Spark. https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/pcb-software  looks quite good. I never did a transition as I'm used to do my work with Eagle and I'm happy with it. I'm not a professional PCB designer, I earn my money with other things. Drawing PCBs is one of many thins I do. This does not justify to pay high license rates on a regular base for a seldom use. I skipped Eagle releases just because I did not recognice it. So I would not see a benefit here.

-AH-

[edwin.robledo · Accepted solution]

Hi

arnoldhuebsch,

Thank you for participating on the forum.  Your message makes our point exactly, instead of having to upfront an investment for the program you can now only subscribe as you need it.  If your current projects needs premium access for one month, then you investment is only US$65 dollars and your using the latest version.  In the meantime you always have local full access to EAGLE to view your designs. As an occasional user, you can activate EAGLE according your design needs.
Best Regards,

Ed

[Anonymous · Accepted solution]

that's perfectly fine you want to offer it to people like that... but don't stop selling licenses. the subscription might work for SOME people, but the vast majority of Eagle customers have specifically selected Eagle for two reasons: 1) for the ability to purchase a license and 2) that it has linux support. you've lost #1 and you are going to lose a significant amount of your customer base.... this is a totally stupid move on the part of autodesk... time to move to kicad...

[Anonymous]

Hi Edwin Robledo!

I understand your job is to defend the decission. I guess you know your answer is faaaaar away from the issue. 65 bucks this or the other month is extreemly more than the current licensing way. I updated every mayor release starting with 3. I'm willing to pay. So is Autodesk interested to keep customers like me? Or are you providing marketing support for your competitors?

Just to bring it down to the point: no subsruption based license on my PC! Do you offer alternatives yes or no?

-AH-

[jorge_garcia · Accepted solution]

Hi Arnold,

I hope you're doing well. At this point we only have subscription based licenses. We definitely want to keep our customers, but we know that this is something that some are not used to and some won't accept.

Hopefully seeing all of the improvements made to EAGLE in the short amount of time can convince many to stick around or at least come back in due time.

Thank you for your participation.

Best Regards,

[AdiGital_Eu · Accepted solution]

I'm a humble hobbyist. I don't make money using Eagle. This is why I spent long time saved money on the hobbyist licence so I could use larger boards. Not because of complexity but because of the components sizes. And because it works on a Mac.

I don't really have a problem with the subscription. No more upgrades? Fine. You don't care? Fine. What I'm really disappointed is that you didn't even care to notify the users about the upcoming switch and warn to download existing versions.

Now I get an email "yay! it's a brand new, fantastic version - subscribe and get it!" - wait, where is the old version? "nah, forget it - we have a new puppy, just get it!"

Forgive the sarcasm. But I've missed few last updates and I'm stuck with 7.4 (this shows how often I use it). Your support says you don't have it offering the free version and sending me here.

Nice.

[jamesots · Accepted solution]

It might be worth people at Autodesk reading this blog post from the guys at JetBrains, from when they changed to a subscription model. In particular, the part about a perpetual fallback license, and the continuit discount.

https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2015/09/18/final-update-on-the-jetbrains-toolbox-announcement/

(For me, the new Eagle license is better (if I can get the programme to work), as I'm only likely to need to use the extra paid-for features for a month or two per year, but I can see why a lot of people will be upset about the move.)

[Anonymous · Accepted solution]

hey,

you can grab the 7.4 version with these urls, or replace the "7.4" with the version number you need:

http://web.cadsoft.de/ftp/eagle/program/7.4/eagle-lin32-7.4.0.run
http://web.cadsoft.de/ftp/eagle/program/7.4/eagle-lin64-7.4.0.run
http://web.cadsoft.de/ftp/eagle/program/7.4/eagle-mac64-7.4.0.zip
http://web.cadsoft.de/ftp/eagle/program/7.4/eagle-win32-7.4.0.exe
http://web.cadsoft.de/ftp/eagle/program/7.4/eagle-win64-7.4.0.exe

Dave

[AdiGital_Eu · Accepted solution]

Awesome! Thanks a lot!

[Anonymous]

Hi Edwin,

I have been using and keeping the licence form v. 2.x or 3.x, I do not remember exactly.

But I am sure I will not get the new model a try. Already Farnell few years ago tried to kill Eagle, now Autodesk did, as could have been expected. What to say... perhaps good bye and good luck, Eagle is not the only product on the market. I will continue with 7.7 as long as possible or necessary and get used to anything else meanwhile, no problem.