Dynamic Blocks & Xref

[Anonymous]

I created a DB that we would like to Xref into drawings.  However, you lose the ability of the DB when you insert as an xref.

Is this problem solved in 2013?  Or is there another way around this in 2011?

We don't want to have to redine blocks each time we update the originial DB.

Thank you,

Jake

[Michael.Reid]

I have the same problem but in LT 2015, cant seem to sort it out.

[ojuris]

I think that isn't problem

when I xref something in drawings I expect that in all drawings xref's will be identical

if you can change dynamic block in inserted xref then it is possible than one xref in different drawings can be different not identical

[olitontyv]

Hi,

I usually put my Dynamic Blocks on tool palettes so I can just click and paste into a drawing. 

The issue you have with redefining the Dynamic block every time you change it can be fixed by

1.) deleting the block

2.) purging the drawing

3.) then reinserting the dynamic block. 

Another quick fix is to SaveAs your dynamic block as another name then reinsert it. This is beneficial for people who want to compare their old and new dynamic blocks next to each other.  

Hope that helps in any way!

[Emmsleys]

Following up on your thread, it appears that several folks have tried to help on this issue. Were you able to find a solution? Or a workaround?

Did any of the posts in the thread help with your issue?

Please post back in the thread if you are still having an issue with AutoCAD or Select Accept as Solution for the post’s that helped.

Thanks for your time.

[prichmond]

I understand what everyone is saying but the way I see this working is:

1.  You insert a dynamic block in your xref and set to a base setting or view.

2.  Xref this into your base drawings.

3. When it comes time to bind I will lose the ability to pick a custom setting for this particular drawing I am working on.

Is there something I am doing wrong?

What is the solution to this if I am not doing anything wrong.

One of the ways I use this now is I have a drain for our machines that requires a typical note.  If the drain needs and accessory (and we only have one for this part) then I have a dynamic text that changes to the note I need once the accessory is requested.  This has not been working for me in since I have started xrefing instead of just inserting as a block.

I have to manage a large library and xrefs are the only non-programming method I am allowed to use.  I am not allowed to do my own coding and there is no other way for me to accomplish this.

Phill

[prichmond]

OK.  I just tried something and noticed that all things are not equal in binding.

If I simply bind the xref in question then I still have dynamic block ability.  But I get a bunch of layers I do not want and my customer will not want to deal with.

If I bind as an insert I get clean layers but no dynamic ability.

Anyone else?

Phill

[kadmonkee]

are you using model space and Paper space?

Dynamic blocks will only work as expected when they are live in your Active drawing.

you can change the source values and then xref that file into a sheet file.

you can't change the value or graphic representation of a dynamic block through a n Xref file.

when binding it will take on the last visible graphic state it was saved in.

base file 1 my dynamic block = A1

base file 2 my dynamic block = F-3

when these are x referenced the values will stay, when they are bound they will stay.

[prichmond]

I don't see why paper space vs model space would affect what I am trying to do but to answer the question the xref is all text and is in paper space.

Let me explain some more.

I know how xrefs work.  I have a number of text files associated with various voltages of machines.  In each of those are xref'd files according to what feature I need to list values for.

For instance the electrical xref shares electrical values for an all electrical machine.  But if I need the machine to be steam powered then the electrical section must change.  This is is done with just plain xref and plain text.

But for the drain of my machine I have to add an accessory depending on building codes.  It just fits over the existing drain on my machine but the notes have to change.  They are always the same for either the drain without the accessory or the drain with the accessory I just need two variations of the notes.

I created a visibility block and inserted it into the text xref which all the stats for the entire machine.  Then xref'd that depending on models.

Now when someone buys a machine they "customize" it to meet their needs.  I am just going to stick to the drain thing because this will get complicated real quick.

If they do not need the accessory then I just bind>insert and I get all my layers to stay as they should be (no xref title before the layer name).  Explode the block to make life easy for the customer and send it on its way.

But if the customer wants the accessory and I bind>insert I get my layers but no ability to change the visibility of the block.  I have to reinsert the block, change it and the explode.

If I bind>bind then I get all the features I need but the layer names are now wrong and changing those is much harder than just inserting a block.

I do not have a problem with the way xrefs work or with the way blocks and dynamic blocks work it just seems that I should be able to bind>insert, keep my layer structure and get dynamic block features since I can bind>bind and get them that way as well?

Does this help?

Phill

[kadmonkee]

I don't see why paper space vs model space would affect what I am trying to do but to answer the question the xref is all text and is in paper space.

It doesn't, it is a general question I normally ask (habit) for clarity 

Let me explain some more.

I know how xrefs work.  I have a number of text files associated with various voltages of machines.  In each of those are xref'd files according to what feature I need to list values for.

For instance the electrical xref shares electrical values for an all electrical machine.  But if I need the machine to be steam powered then the electrical section must change.  This is is done with just plain xref and plain text.

But for the drain of my machine I have to add an accessory depending on building codes.  It just fits over the existing drain on my machine but the notes have to change.  They are always the same for either the drain without the accessory or the drain with the accessory I just need two variations of the notes.

I created a visibility block and inserted it into the text xref which all the stats for the entire machine.  Then xref'd that depending on models.

Now when someone buys a machine they "customize" it to meet their needs.  I am just going to stick to the drain thing because this will get complicated real quick.

If they do not need the accessory then I just bind>insert and I get all my layers to stay as they should be (no xref title before the layer name).  Explode the block to make life easy for the customer and send it on its way.

But if the customer wants the accessory and I bind>insert I get my layers but no ability to change the visibility of the block.  I have to reinsert the block, change it and the explode.

Why are you binding these files? is this a customer request?

If I bind>bind then I get all the features I need but the layer names are now wrong and changing those is much harder than just inserting a block.

if you create the blocks and include the text and nest things on the correct layers simply change the text option inside the blocks as needed, regardless of how you bind it all layers will maintain in your bound file.

all of my blocks would contain each option needed whether it is a text value or a graphic representation. 

if the block becomes too complex than you can break them out by size then manage them as needed.

if these pieces of info can be set in a table then create a table to be used and modified as needed

it provide more flexibility on the fly.

[prichmond]

But if the customer wants the accessory and I bind>insert I get my layers but no ability to change the visibility of the block.  I have to reinsert the block, change it and the explode.

Why are you binding these files? is this a customer request?

No the customer does not have access to our files directly.  We send them individual files and all xref's and blocks need to be bound and exploded because we never know the skill level of our customer thus we set things for the lowest common denominator.

If I bind>bind then I get all the features I need but the layer names are now wrong and changing those is much harder than just inserting a block.

if you create the blocks and include the text and nest things on the correct layers simply change the text option inside the blocks as needed, regardless of how you bind it all layers will maintain in your bound file.

all of my blocks would contain each option needed whether it is a text value or a graphic representation. 

if the block becomes too complex than you can break them out by size then manage them as needed.

if these pieces of info can be set in a table then create a table to be used and modified as needed

it provide more flexibility on the fly.

This fine.  It's old school but it is fine.  The problem arises that the layers must conform to a standard and having a specific layer for each condition is not allowed.  This is the food service standard I am referring to.

But still I don't understand why binding a dynamic block one way removes it's features and binding it another way does not.  Is this not a valid question?

Phill

[kadmonkee]

it is a very valid question

that one is interesting.

I don't know why it does that either.

I would prefer to work live and minimize the number of xreferenced files.

but i do understand the need to use them at times.

we typically just send the  client the PDF files and not the actual cad files.

I'm guessing this is not an option for you.

[prichmond]

No it is not.  We have to send up to date CAD files with pdf to our customers.

Thank you for hearing me out.  Maybe the AutoCAD gods will hear me and look into this.  It would be super sweet if this would be changed.

Best Regards

Phill

[kadmonkee]

you are welcome.

if I may suggest something it may save you some headaches along the way.

"No the customer does not have access to our files directly.  We send them individual files and all xref's and blocks need to be bound and exploded because we never know the skill level of our customer thus we set things for the lowest common denominator."

are you able to send the files all packaged without Binding?

if you are sending the pdf files with the cad files they (the Customer) should be able to figure out what to do.

you cant be held accountable for others inexperience.

just a thought not sure how flexible your standards are.

[prichmond]

Hi,

The standards are not very flexible at all.  We can adopt the position of "we are not accountable for our customers lack of expertise" and in CAD that would be fine but for a company selling machines and other products this is a very poor position to have.  We always try to reach out to our customers and find ways to make their lives easier.  That is why we go to lengths of binding all xrefs and simplifying the layer structure as much as possible.  Sure it makes life a little hard for us power users but in the grand scheme it helps make a bridge to a customer and they will remember that.

Thank you for all your help.

Phill

[JVas]

I know that I'm late to this party.  But, I hope that I can help a bit.

AutoCAD has to re-name layers when it creates xrefs.  It's a requirement of object identification within the software.  No two items can have the same functional name or alias.  If they did, there would be no way for the software to differentiate.  A change to one would change both, defeating the entire purpose of blocks and xrefs.

I would just add a layer filter to the drawing file which contains only the standard layers which the client would need to see. 

[If they are strictly adhering to the layer standard for the industry, then they have no call to be making wholesale changes to layer properties to begin with.  They would only need to know anything about the settings if that sort of data is being extracted for automated drawing enhancements and/or database purposes.  And if they need the drawings to "look" a certain way, then you have satisfied the requirement.]

You may also wish to find out from the client what sort of downstream process the .dwg file endures.  There could be some legacy automated formatting process which could be broken and/or interrupted by either dynamic blocks or xrefs.

Also, thanks for letting me know about what binding does to the dynamic 'xref'.

[carlosrgns]

ok here is a horrible option that works, if you create the block where the text is attached thru a field to a custom drawing property on let's say DWG1 and then insert it into DWG2 who has the same custom drawing property, then the DWG1 insertion will take the value of DWG2 property, which seems to sort of do the trick of having the same insertion in multiple drawings but with different notes

[JVas]

Isn't that functionally the same as using a bound xref?

[carlosrgns]

not quite, because the method will work without binding the xref, which means you can edit the source file and the changes will update

[prichmond]

I will try this and see what happens.

Phill