Drafting Techniques

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*Lincoln, Tracy W.
Message 41 of 102 (166 Views)

Re:

03-21-2003 01:57 AM in reply to: pipe0069
The method is called "Direct Distance" pointer supplies the angle, you supply
the number of units... with the addition of polar tracking & object tracking
this has become the fastest way to draw.

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Tracy W. Lincoln, Assistant Moderator
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Distinguished Contributor
old-cadaver
Posts: 5,183
Registered: ‎12-12-2003
Message 42 of 102 (166 Views)

Re:

03-21-2003 02:12 AM in reply to: pipe0069
I didn't figure you would. And I don't mind differing opinions as long as they can be supported. I asked for an example of a case where the speed of hand drafting would be close to out-of-the-box ACAD


"Randy Richardson wrote:
I do feel free to express any opinion, based on my own experience, that I wish to. I'll not accept your prohibition."
Distinguished Contributor
old-cadaver
Posts: 5,183
Registered: ‎12-12-2003
Message 43 of 102 (166 Views)

Re:

03-21-2003 02:17 AM in reply to: pipe0069
I personally haven't done PCB design, but I know some who have and according to them, Polyline line widths alone make using CAD preferable over hand drafting. Actually the first CAD work I saw commercially was PCB design using Intergraph back in the mid '70's
Distinguished Contributor
old-cadaver
Posts: 5,183
Registered: ‎12-12-2003
Message 44 of 102 (166 Views)

Re:

03-21-2003 02:19 AM in reply to: pipe0069
"Direct Distance Entry" is the latest version of keyed-in distances. I use my left hand on the mouse, so my right hand is free to use the numeric keypad for number entry.
*Richardson, Randy
Message 45 of 102 (166 Views)

Re:

03-21-2003 02:33 AM in reply to: pipe0069
Hello again, OLD-CADaver. I felt that I did support my claim, describing
methods of making lines, which was the example that you suggested. I
compared methods of making a line using old methods and using new methods.
I can accept that you don't accept the validity of my substantiation, but
may I suggest that you try to see the difference between an unsubstantiated
claim and one in which you do not accept the substantiation? However, I
really don't care one way or the other. While you didn't directly question
my assessment of the speed of making a single line, you did bring up other
issues, which I would be glad to discuss if I weren't so bored with the
whole thing.

Have a great day.

Randy Richardson

"OLD-CADaver" wrote in message
news:f14fa9b.40@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> I didn't figure you would. And I don't mind differing opinions as long as
they can be supported. I asked for an example of a case where the speed of
hand drafting would be close to out-of-the-box ACAD
>
> "Randy Richardson wrote:
> I do feel free to express any opinion, based on my own experience, that I
wish to. I'll not accept your prohibition."
>
>
Distinguished Contributor
old-cadaver
Posts: 5,183
Registered: ‎12-12-2003
Message 46 of 102 (166 Views)

Re:

03-21-2003 03:05 AM in reply to: pipe0069
There was no substantiation, merely a description of two methods, with no qualifications as to which is faster and why. Also, as I pointed out that part of your description of one was left out of the other. And of course you're bored with it, you've made a claim you can't or won't support and got caught at it. (BTW, you can stop replying at any time, and the discussion will go away.) You've decided that hand drafting is better for some applications, fine, but if you use speed as the reason, expect someone to call you on it.
*Davea
Message 47 of 102 (166 Views)

Re:

03-21-2003 03:30 AM in reply to: pipe0069
Polyline will not export into an autorouter. So, it is NOT preferable. There
is however, the line command for "trace" which is what your friend is using
the P-line for, and incorrectly I might add.

Sorry, It was a loaded question...

Chicago Bridge??? Do you know Ralph Neidzweicki? He left there 10+ years
ago.


"OLD-CADaver" wrote in message
news:f14fa9b.41@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> I personally haven't done PCB design, but I know some who have and
according to them, Polyline line widths alone make using CAD preferable over
hand drafting. Actually the first CAD work I saw commercially was PCB design
using Intergraph back in the mid '70's


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*Richardson, Randy
Message 48 of 102 (166 Views)

Re:

03-21-2003 03:32 AM in reply to: pipe0069
I thought that my explanation made such qualifications self evident, but
obviously I was wrong about that. I did, as promised, stop discussing which
was faster between boards and CAD, my continued replies were to clarify
ambiguious points (the direct-distance entry stuff) and to answer your
allegations. I admit that your baiting tactics are hard to resist. As long
as you feel so strongly about making unsubstantiated assertions, though, I
would be interested (if you're not too bored) to prove that anyone has ever
increased their productivity 8 to 10 times in structural steel detailing by
moving from boards to CAD, without (1) buying a dedicated steel detailing
package, (2) customizing CAD, and (3) creating standard blocks. That
productivity increase is at the high end even for people who use (brand X
steel detailing software). And, by the way, if you can prove that, that
would be great.


"OLD-CADaver" wrote in message
news:f14fa9b.44@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> There was no substantiation, merely a description of two methods, with no
qualifications as to which is faster and why. Also, as I pointed out that
part of your description of one was left out of the other. And of course
you're bored with it, you've made a claim you can't or won't support and got
caught at it. (BTW, you can stop replying at any time, and the discussion
will go away.) You've decided that hand drafting is better for some
applications, fine, but if you use speed as the reason, expect someone to
call you on it.
>
Distinguished Contributor
old-cadaver
Posts: 5,183
Registered: ‎12-12-2003
Message 49 of 102 (166 Views)

Re:

03-21-2003 03:54 AM in reply to: pipe0069
As I recall they ported the output through CNC to control the auotrouter, so the PLINE data was converted to the proper control code sequencing. But it's been 10-11 years, and I've slept since then, so who knows.



Chicago Bridge is a world-wide organization with 40,000 employees. We were purchased by them about 3 years ago, though the name looks familiar, I'm sorry I don't know Mr. Neidzweicki.
Distinguished Contributor
old-cadaver
Posts: 5,183
Registered: ‎12-12-2003
Message 50 of 102 (166 Views)

Re:

03-21-2003 04:12 AM in reply to: pipe0069
Gee, I thought you were bored with this. If you'll go back and re-read my post, you'll notice I included standard blocks as a reason for increased speed. If you're not using blocks, then (as I said before) you're not usimg the tool properly. However, If you'd like I can snail mail you hardcopy of our production data from the mid '80's when I was detailing steel (without an add-on) that shows an increase in production of about 800%. What I have isn't cooked, so you'll have to do the math yourself. Now that's aside, I'm still waiting for an example of hand drafting that is faster (or even close) than CAD. A line on the board requires algning the paper to the bar, taping it down, deciding where to start the line, where to stop the line, the weight of the line, pointing the lead, striking the line (multiple times for heavier lineweight), repeat four times for beam. A line in CAD "L" . "C" . beam's done.
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