Design Review

Reply
*Ben Cochran
Message 11 of 26 (60 Views)

Re: When will we get a "real" viewer?

07-14-2004 08:43 AM in reply to: *HarryS
I am confused by your last comment. How is DWG more secure then DWF? DWF is a password protected, non-editable, print ready format. The same is not true about DWG. Could you explain what type of security we would need to add to DWF so that you would say it is secure? I am not sure if you are aware of this but DWF files are created with precision that while good for printing, does not work for editing. DWG files on the other hand are designed for editing. I also wanted to point out that adding 3D to DWF did not change the size of a 2D DWF. The publishing app decides what type of data the DWF should contain. Ben Cochran Autodesk Both DWF and PDF have "Richard" wrote in message news:40f4b96c$1_2@newsprd01... > > But I can tell you that 95% of the people I talk with want to have > > a format that they can send to the client that the client can view and > print > > and not modify. > > Ahhhh they must be the same clients that send us the DWF's and PDF's for > conversion > back to DWG so they can work on them. :-) > We also offer a scanning service for paper=>dwg conversions. > > FWIW We do advise the client to send a copy of the rebuilt dwg's back to the > source explaining that > neither DWF nor PDF are "secure formats". > > > >
*Ben Cochran
Message 12 of 26 (60 Views)

Re: When will we get a "real" viewer?

07-14-2004 08:57 AM in reply to: *HarryS
You bring up some very good points about intelligent data. The DWF format and the viewer support much of this today. As you know ADT has the ability to publish this data. If you have the time, you might want to check it out. Ben Cochran Autodesk "Richard" wrote in message news:40f54683_1@newsprd01... > Hi Shaan > Yes was aware of that, but not what I'm (and I think Harry) where > looking for. > The point *I* have been trying to make is we don't want PDF relabled as > DWF > DWF could be so much more. It could be "different" and better so easily. > > Just (honestly) ask yourself what you say to someone who is using > PDF..... > First thing that comes to my mind, is "turning Layers on/off" and > "support for layouts" > Both a great use of CAD "Data" - and by "Data" I don't mean lines & > circles, I mean the > intelligent info that we all build into our files. Basically the > property or symbol table info, the > stuff that makes CAD , well CAD, rather than just paper (electronic or > otherwise) > > So now imagine a DWF product that does more.....yea sure it measures > distances with osnaps - great > But "what if" you could pick on a wall and it reports it's length, the > colour its painted and its height. > Yes I know that the AEC boys (& Girls) are playing with this.....but > "what if" something as simple > as picking blocks could show (think tooltip if you like) the attributes > on a block. > eg move your mouse over a point and have the height show, or over a > piece of furniture or bolt > and have its manufaturer show as the designer documented it. > > Like Harry orig said, what is so hard about this? if Layer data can be > embedded with the objects, why not attributes. > I mean we had Hyperlinks.... And if Attribs work why not fields, > xdata, xrecords. > > If DWF supported Layers, Layouts and "Intelligent CAD Data" then PDF > wouldn't even be a consideration IMHO > Right now DWF is an "also ran" in a electronic doc race which has a > clear (if less suitable) leader. > At least that is the view put to us by our clients, and we see as a > reasonable point of view. > > However the way some here view DWF, I get the impression we might all be > better of going back to emailing PLT's or posting paper. > But some here noted there may be other vested interests at > play.....ummmmm > > Anyhow great for Adesk to jump in. Thanks Shaan. > > > > > "Shaan Hurley, Autodesk, Inc." wrote in message > news:40f540ab$1_2@newsprd01... > > Just adding to the discussion. There is a DWG read-only viewer included > with > > the Autodesk DWF Composer Product. > > > > Cheers, > > -Shaan > > > > "Rodney McManamy - CADzation" wrote in message > > news:40f4abc3$1_1@newsprd01... > > > Richard, > > > > > > Harry's original post is that he want a real "DATA" viewer. The real > Data > > > viewer is AutoCAD or a native DWG file viewer. > > > > > >
*Rodney McManamy - CADzation
Message 13 of 26 (60 Views)

Re: When will we get a "real" viewer?

07-14-2004 10:47 AM in reply to: *HarryS
Ben, I thought that one of the benefits of the DWF is that the precision is there to take real world measurements and not just paper based measurements like the PDF. I've seen the demos for the ADT and it is cool with the data being transferred over but with everything that Harry was originally asking for I still say he might as well transmit the DWG. And Autodesk has been giving us the tools to view all the design data that he wants for years now. I come from the industrial equipment end of things originally and as well as DWF or PDF works for basic approval the clients are still going to require a dwg file for them to be able to drop into their plant layouts for their records. Our sales guys tried to swear that we couldn't give them a dwg but if you give them a DWF or PDF or even a Print it can easily be reverse engineered right back into a usable DWG anyways. And in the meantime the customers just kept getting made because they are buying a piece of equipment and then were forced to spend their time to redraw the stuff for their own use. I did it with manufacturers we bought equipment from. The guys who supplied us the dwg files were the guys I would buy from because it saved me time. Don't get me wrong, I can see some incredible useful scenarios for intelligent data in the DWF which is why I'm investing time in it. But Harry's original post was basically for all the information in the dwg. And people also forget that when it really comes down to design and sharing design data the native formats may be best. Publishing is totally different from design and for publishing DWF is great. Also there is no such thing as a secure file format. Give me a password protected DWF or PDF and I can probably remove the password and resave it without one. Give me a PDF with layers and I could give you a dwg with layers from it. Granted you're not going to roll it back into an ADT or MDT type of environment but your are going to get them into a fairly usable dwg. And as several customers have pointed out if you can view it or print it you can also send it overseas (or even here in the US) and have it manually created into a dwg for a small fee. It's nothing new. The old stone tablets have been copied to paper and then to digital and could now be engraved back on stone if one wanted. Interesting enough I have yet to hear of a storage media that outlasts the various first thing us humans wrote on. As we make things easier we also reduce the archival life span of our work. -- Rodney McManamy President CADzation ------------------------- rmcmanamy@cadzation.com ------------------------- 518 South Route 31 Suite 200 McHenry, IL 60050 www.cadzation.com Providing Industrial Strength PDF & DWF Solutions to the Global CAD Marketplace. "Ben Cochran" wrote in message news:40f554bf$1_3@newsprd01... > I am confused by your last comment. How is DWG more secure then DWF? DWF is > a password protected, non-editable, print ready format. The same is not true > about DWG. Could you explain what type of security we would need to add to > DWF so that you would say it is secure? > > I am not sure if you are aware of this but DWF files are created with > precision that while good for printing, does not work for editing. DWG files > on the other hand are designed for editing. > > I also wanted to point out that adding 3D to DWF did not change the size of > a 2D DWF. The publishing app decides what type of data the DWF should > contain. > > Ben Cochran > Autodesk > > Both DWF and PDF have > "Richard" wrote in message news:40f4b96c$1_2@newsprd01... > > > But I can tell you that 95% of the people I talk with want to have > > > a format that they can send to the client that the client can view and > > print > > > and not modify. > > > > Ahhhh they must be the same clients that send us the DWF's and PDF's for > > conversion > > back to DWG so they can work on them. :-) > > We also offer a scanning service for paper=>dwg conversions. > > > > FWIW We do advise the client to send a copy of the rebuilt dwg's back to > the > > source explaining that > > neither DWF nor PDF are "secure formats". > > > > > > > > > >
*Ben Cochran
Message 14 of 26 (60 Views)

Re: When will we get a "real" viewer?

07-14-2004 12:16 PM in reply to: *HarryS
You are correct, DWF does have enough precision to make accurate measurements. The analogy to paper works well, you can measure from paper, but if you try to scan that paper back in and recreate the DWG you will encounter problems. From a DWF you can make more accurate measurements then you can from paper, but it does not have enough precision to get back to the original DWG. Autocad uses double precision data and DWF stores a 32-bit representation of the data. In Harry's case it sounds like the DWG might be what he needs. I was simply responding to some of the points Richard brought up. Particularly the part suggesting that DWF and PDF are not "secure formats" so a DWG should be used instead. This implies that a DWG is more secure then a DWF or PDF. Perhaps I am missing something, but that implication is simply wrong. The exciting thing about a published format is that the owners of the data can publish data tailored for there audience in a representation they can use. Some audiences require object data like fire ratings on doors or cost of a bolt, etc. Some audiences should not receive this type of intellectual property. The publisher has control of what is published and who they give the published data to. In other words, DWF can be used to protect the publisher's intellectual property while giving them the ability to share needed information. Ben "Rodney McManamy - CADzation" wrote in message news:40f571be_3@newsprd01... > Ben, > > I thought that one of the benefits of the DWF is that the precision is there > to take real world measurements and not just paper based measurements like > the PDF. I've seen the demos for the ADT and it is cool with the data being > transferred over but with everything that Harry was originally asking for I > still say he might as well transmit the DWG. And Autodesk has been giving > us the tools to view all the design data that he wants for years now. > > I come from the industrial equipment end of things originally and as well as > DWF or PDF works for basic approval the clients are still going to require a > dwg file for them to be able to drop into their plant layouts for their > records. Our sales guys tried to swear that we couldn't give them a dwg but > if you give them a DWF or PDF or even a Print it can easily be reverse > engineered right back into a usable DWG anyways. And in the meantime the > customers just kept getting made because they are buying a piece of > equipment and then were forced to spend their time to redraw the stuff for > their own use. I did it with manufacturers we bought equipment from. The > guys who supplied us the dwg files were the guys I would buy from because it > saved me time. > > Don't get me wrong, I can see some incredible useful scenarios for > intelligent data in the DWF which is why I'm investing time in it. But > Harry's original post was basically for all the information in the dwg. And > people also forget that when it really comes down to design and sharing > design data the native formats may be best. Publishing is totally different > from design and for publishing DWF is great. > > Also there is no such thing as a secure file format. Give me a password > protected DWF or PDF and I can probably remove the password and resave it > without one. Give me a PDF with layers and I could give you a dwg with > layers from it. Granted you're not going to roll it back into an ADT or MDT > type of environment but your are going to get them into a fairly usable dwg. > And as several customers have pointed out if you can view it or print it you > can also send it overseas (or even here in the US) and have it manually > created into a dwg for a small fee. > > It's nothing new. The old stone tablets have been copied to paper and then > to digital and could now be engraved back on stone if one wanted. > Interesting enough I have yet to hear of a storage media that outlasts the > various first thing us humans wrote on. As we make things easier we also > reduce the archival life span of our work. > -- > Rodney McManamy > President > CADzation > ------------------------- > rmcmanamy@cadzation.com > ------------------------- > 518 South Route 31 Suite 200 > McHenry, IL 60050 > www.cadzation.com > Providing Industrial Strength > PDF & DWF Solutions to the > Global CAD Marketplace. > > "Ben Cochran" wrote in message > news:40f554bf$1_3@newsprd01... > > I am confused by your last comment. How is DWG more secure then DWF? DWF > is > > a password protected, non-editable, print ready format. The same is not > true > > about DWG. Could you explain what type of security we would need to add to > > DWF so that you would say it is secure? > > > > I am not sure if you are aware of this but DWF files are created with > > precision that while good for printing, does not work for editing. DWG > files > > on the other hand are designed for editing. > > > > I also wanted to point out that adding 3D to DWF did not change the size > of > > a 2D DWF. The publishing app decides what type of data the DWF should > > contain. > > > > Ben Cochran > > Autodesk > > > > Both DWF and PDF have > > "Richard" wrote in message > news:40f4b96c$1_2@newsprd01... > > > > But I can tell you that 95% of the people I talk with want to have > > > > a format that they can send to the client that the client can view and > > > print > > > > and not modify. > > > > > > Ahhhh they must be the same clients that send us the DWF's and PDF's for > > > conversion > > > back to DWG so they can work on them. :-) > > > We also offer a scanning service for paper=>dwg conversions. > > > > > > FWIW We do advise the client to send a copy of the rebuilt dwg's back to > > the > > > source explaining that > > > neither DWF nor PDF are "secure formats". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
*Richard
Message 15 of 26 (60 Views)

Re: When will we get a "real" viewer?

07-14-2004 05:23 PM in reply to: *HarryS
Hi Ben > This implies that a DWG is more secure then a DWF or PDF. Perhaps I > am missing something, but that implication is simply wrong. Not sure what I wrote that lead you to your conclusions, but I never said DWG was more sercure in any way. I don't think DWF, PDF or DWG are secure at all and I never stated they where. And I never said use DWG instead of DWF I meerly said we get a lot of requests to convert DWF back to DWF (acurate or not) so people can edit the info. Typically these people have received the DWF's when they "should" have been sent DWG. But the source (incorrectly) thought they would "secure their data". by sending DWF > The exciting thing about a published format is that the owners of the data > can publish data tailored for there audience in a representation they can > use. Some audiences require object data like fire ratings on doors or cost > of a bolt, etc. Some audiences should not receive this type of intellectual > property. The publisher has control of what is published and who they give > the published data to. In other words, DWF can be used to protect the > publisher's intellectual property while giving them the ability to share > needed information. Great I think that is what we are looking for. I just can't seem to see it in the menus of any Adesk products? Is there an extra menu I need to load up? :-)
*Richard
Message 16 of 26 (60 Views)

Re: When will we get a "real" viewer?

07-14-2004 05:45 PM in reply to: *HarryS
> but with everything that Harry was originally asking for I > still say he might as well transmit the DWG. I think you read more into it that I did. > Don't get me wrong, I can see some incredible useful scenarios for > intelligent data in the DWF which is why I'm investing time in it. OK, Great to see your change of heart! >But Harry's original post was basically for all the information in the dwg. Where did you read that? All I read was he want (an I want) to be able to attach some info to lines / circles / arcs & blocks, So I can take a light weight datafile (read DWF) on my palm or at least notebook, and be able to pick on my "electronic graphical database" and extract the name of the pump manufacturer, or the paint colour code for the window frame! > Also there is no such thing as a secure file format. Give me a password > protected DWF or PDF and I can probably remove the password and resave it > without one. Great, we agree on this also, I agree that nothing (other than not sending anything). is secure. (Actually "not sending" might not be secure either if someone looks over your shoulder!) What I've been saying is simple. Not complicated by security issues or conversion processes of format wars or any other tangents. All I've been saying is PLT & PDF already gives us "electronic paper", I want to see DWF as something that gives a bit more. And by "more" I mean "CAD info", the "intelligence" that the designer put into the file in the first place, the stuff that Adesk do, that Adobe don't or can't.. Sort of why I use ACAD rather than MSPaint or Corel! Ie DWF could be "unique" rather than "also does". Like Harry said, who really cares if its, DWG, DWF,DXF or even DGN. Just portable (read small & lightweight), useful CAD information. Having said that, Ben has implied that all that I want is already available, I just haven't found it on a menu yet! :-) I'll keep looking!. 8-)
*Richard
Message 17 of 26 (60 Views)

Re: When will we get a "real" viewer?

07-14-2004 06:18 PM in reply to: *HarryS
Hi Ben, When we first saw the ADT abilities we looked good and hard at it, so we could try & replicate & include it in basic ACAD. We have not had a great deal of sucess at it however. Bottom line is ADT gave us a taste of something we have wanted for a long time. (BTW before ADT we had tried to implement it via "hyperlinks" with some limited success) But the ADT experience simply reinforces that Question "how hard can it be to include attributes or xdata or fields info in a DWF?" We don't really care if the info shows in the DWF properties box or as a tooltip. We don't really care if the mouse moves over the objects, or if we need to pick on them and have a dialog pop up. We just want "intelligent" publishing. I can almost see the marketing blurb ..... "You developed an intelligent design document , now use OUR data publishing tools to publish Intelligent and REALLY usable documents, Why use theirs & publish just basic information, and loose all your intelligence.?" ummm ...bit harsh maybe ;-) DWFit => Data With Free InTelligence $0.02 (actually I think I'm up to about $2.02 already!.) "Ben Cochran" wrote in message news:40f557e9$1_2@newsprd01... > You bring up some very good points about intelligent data. The DWF format > and the viewer support much of this today. As you know ADT has the ability > to publish this data. If you have the time, you might want to check it out. > > Ben Cochran > Autodesk > > "Richard" wrote in message news:40f54683_1@newsprd01... > > Hi Shaan > > Yes was aware of that, but not what I'm (and I think Harry) where > > looking for. > > The point *I* have been trying to make is we don't want PDF relabled > as > > DWF > > DWF could be so much more. It could be "different" and better so > easily. > > > > Just (honestly) ask yourself what you say to someone who is using > > PDF..... > > First thing that comes to my mind, is "turning Layers on/off" and > > "support for layouts" > > Both a great use of CAD "Data" - and by "Data" I don't mean lines & > > circles, I mean the > > intelligent info that we all build into our files. Basically the > > property or symbol table info, the > > stuff that makes CAD , well CAD, rather than just paper (electronic or > > otherwise) > > > > So now imagine a DWF product that does more.....yea sure it measures > > distances with osnaps - great > > But "what if" you could pick on a wall and it reports it's length, the > > colour its painted and its height. > > Yes I know that the AEC boys (& Girls) are playing with this.....but > > "what if" something as simple > > as picking blocks could show (think tooltip if you like) the > attributes > > on a block. > > eg move your mouse over a point and have the height show, or over a > > piece of furniture or bolt > > and have its manufaturer show as the designer documented it. > > > > Like Harry orig said, what is so hard about this? if Layer data can be > > embedded with the objects, why not attributes. > > I mean we had Hyperlinks.... And if Attribs work why not fields, > > xdata, xrecords. > > > > If DWF supported Layers, Layouts and "Intelligent CAD Data" then PDF > > wouldn't even be a consideration IMHO > > Right now DWF is an "also ran" in a electronic doc race which has a > > clear (if less suitable) leader. > > At least that is the view put to us by our clients, and we see as a > > reasonable point of view. > > > > However the way some here view DWF, I get the impression we might all > be > > better of going back to emailing PLT's or posting paper. > > But some here noted there may be other vested interests at > > play.....ummmmm > > > > Anyhow great for Adesk to jump in. Thanks Shaan. > > > > > > > > > > "Shaan Hurley, Autodesk, Inc." wrote in > message > > news:40f540ab$1_2@newsprd01... > > > Just adding to the discussion. There is a DWG read-only viewer included > > with > > > the Autodesk DWF Composer Product. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > -Shaan > > > > > > "Rodney McManamy - CADzation" wrote in message > > > news:40f4abc3$1_1@newsprd01... > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > > Harry's original post is that he want a real "DATA" viewer. The real > > Data > > > > viewer is AutoCAD or a native DWG file viewer. > > > > > > > > > > > >
*Rodney McManamy - CADzation
Message 18 of 26 (60 Views)

Re: When will we get a "real" viewer?

07-15-2004 03:55 AM in reply to: *HarryS
Right now the latest version of ADT (and I think map) are all that are publishing some intellignet data from what I know. As I said it's not an easy task trying to come up with a general way for someone to pick and choose what data they want added from what objects into the DWF but the API is open so once can make a custom solution for their needs. I'm sure the general solution is going to come in future versions of AutoCAD but again they are pleasing the majority of users who don't need the intelligent data and the rest of us either have to do it on our own now or have to wait for future releases. -- Rodney McManamy President CADzation ------------------------- rmcmanamy@cadzation.com ------------------------- 518 South Route 31 Suite 200 McHenry, IL 60050 www.cadzation.com Providing Industrial Strength PDF & DWF Solutions to the Global CAD Marketplace. "Richard" wrote in message news:40f5d390$1_3@newsprd01... > > but with everything that Harry was originally asking for I > > still say he might as well transmit the DWG. > > I think you read more into it that I did. > > > Don't get me wrong, I can see some incredible useful scenarios for > > intelligent data in the DWF which is why I'm investing time in it. > > OK, Great to see your change of heart! > > >But Harry's original post was basically for all the information in the dwg. > > Where did you read that? All I read was he want (an I want) to be able to > attach some info > to lines / circles / arcs & blocks, So I can take a light weight datafile > (read DWF) > on my palm or at least notebook, and be able to pick on my "electronic > graphical database" > and extract the name of the pump manufacturer, or the paint colour code for > the window frame! > > > Also there is no such thing as a secure file format. Give me a password > > protected DWF or PDF and I can probably remove the password and resave it > > without one. > > Great, we agree on this also, I agree that nothing (other than not sending > anything). > is secure. (Actually "not sending" might not be secure either if someone > looks over your shoulder!) > > What I've been saying is simple. Not complicated by security issues or > conversion processes > of format wars or any other tangents. All I've been saying is PLT & PDF > already gives > us "electronic paper", I want to see DWF as something that gives a bit > more. > And by "more" I mean "CAD info", the "intelligence" that the designer put > into the > file in the first place, the stuff that Adesk do, that Adobe don't or > can't.. > Sort of why I use ACAD rather than MSPaint or Corel! > Ie DWF could be "unique" rather than "also does". > Like Harry said, who really cares if its, DWG, DWF,DXF or even DGN. > Just portable (read small & lightweight), useful CAD information. > > Having said that, Ben has implied that all that I want is already available, > I just haven't found it on a menu yet! :-) > I'll keep looking!. 8-) > > >
*Rodney McManamy - CADzation
Message 19 of 26 (60 Views)

Re: When will we get a "real" viewer?

07-15-2004 04:20 AM in reply to: *HarryS
All in good time. See my earlier post. We'll be working on this also in the upcoming months but I'll tell you from a developer that when it comes to commercial software nothing is easy. For Autodesk it's going to have to work on 6 different operating systems and probably be in at least 7 different languages and also be easy enough for the average person to setup (since apparently people don't like to read online help manuals). I personally think Autodesk has taken the correct path in improving the basic viewing and adding the 3D capability first before using resources to come up with a general solution for everyone to add intelligence. The intelligence is there for the people using the more intelligent programs like ADT but that's because the data that is being extracted is much more defined than in generic AutoCAD. After all for the intelligent portion to work properly the basics have to be done first and have to be solid. Maybe I can use your marketing blurb for our products. Autodesk is very much relying on companies like ours to help push the DWF by tackling the other 20% that people need. If they wanted to keep it all to themselves they never would have published the full API. We run circles around what Adobe can do with PDF from AutoCAD and we hope to do it with DWF also. But we luckily don't have to worry about pleasing millions of customers (hopefully in the future our installed base reaches that) or even going through planning and approval processes to add in features. If I want it it goes in once we get the time to do it. Check out our AcroPlot Pro tomorrow and we'll have the DWF enabled version that can add intelligent bookmarks based on your titleblock attributtes to the DWF just like we've been doing for years to the PDF. Contact me in about a month and maybe we'll be caught up enough to start looking at adding the intelligent data to the DWF also and I would be glad to listen to how you think it should work. But it' summertime and I'm only working 60 hours a week now so it may be closer to 6-8 weeks before we can start on it. -- Rodney McManamy President CADzation ------------------------- rmcmanamy@cadzation.com ------------------------- 518 South Route 31 Suite 200 McHenry, IL 60050 www.cadzation.com Providing Industrial Strength PDF & DWF Solutions to the Global CAD Marketplace. "Richard" wrote in message news:40f5db60$1_2@newsprd01... > Hi Ben, > When we first saw the ADT abilities we looked good and hard at it, so > we could > try & replicate & include it in basic ACAD. > We have not had a great deal of sucess at it however. > > Bottom line is ADT gave us a taste of something we have wanted for a > long time. > (BTW before ADT we had tried to implement it via "hyperlinks" with some > limited success) > But the ADT experience simply reinforces that Question "how hard can it > be to include > attributes or xdata or fields info in a DWF?" > We don't really care if the info shows in the DWF properties box or as a > tooltip. > We don't really care if the mouse moves over the objects, or if we need > to pick on them and have a dialog pop up. > We just want "intelligent" publishing. > > I can almost see the marketing blurb ..... > "You developed an intelligent design document , now use OUR data > publishing tools to publish Intelligent and REALLY usable > documents, Why use theirs & publish just basic information, and loose > all your intelligence.?" ummm ...bit harsh maybe ;-) > > DWFit => Data With Free InTelligence > > $0.02 > (actually I think I'm up to about $2.02 already!.) > > > > > "Ben Cochran" wrote in message > news:40f557e9$1_2@newsprd01... > > You bring up some very good points about intelligent data. The DWF format > > and the viewer support much of this today. As you know ADT has the ability > > to publish this data. If you have the time, you might want to check it > out. > > > > Ben Cochran > > Autodesk > > > > "Richard" wrote in message news:40f54683_1@newsprd01... > > > Hi Shaan > > > Yes was aware of that, but not what I'm (and I think Harry) where > > > looking for. > > > The point *I* have been trying to make is we don't want PDF relabled > > as > > > DWF > > > DWF could be so much more. It could be "different" and better so > > easily. > > > > > > Just (honestly) ask yourself what you say to someone who is using > > > PDF..... > > > First thing that comes to my mind, is "turning Layers on/off" and > > > "support for layouts" > > > Both a great use of CAD "Data" - and by "Data" I don't mean lines & > > > circles, I mean the > > > intelligent info that we all build into our files. Basically the > > > property or symbol table info, the > > > stuff that makes CAD , well CAD, rather than just paper (electronic or > > > otherwise) > > > > > > So now imagine a DWF product that does more.....yea sure it measures > > > distances with osnaps - great > > > But "what if" you could pick on a wall and it reports it's length, > the > > > colour its painted and its height. > > > Yes I know that the AEC boys (& Girls) are playing with this.....but > > > "what if" something as simple > > > as picking blocks could show (think tooltip if you like) the > > attributes > > > on a block. > > > eg move your mouse over a point and have the height show, or over a > > > piece of furniture or bolt > > > and have its manufaturer show as the designer documented it. > > > > > > Like Harry orig said, what is so hard about this? if Layer data can > be > > > embedded with the objects, why not attributes. > > > I mean we had Hyperlinks.... And if Attribs work why not fields, > > > xdata, xrecords. > > > > > > If DWF supported Layers, Layouts and "Intelligent CAD Data" then PDF > > > wouldn't even be a consideration IMHO > > > Right now DWF is an "also ran" in a electronic doc race which has a > > > clear (if less suitable) leader. > > > At least that is the view put to us by our clients, and we see as a > > > reasonable point of view. > > > > > > However the way some here view DWF, I get the impression we might > all > > be > > > better of going back to emailing PLT's or posting paper. > > > But some here noted there may be other vested interests at > > > play.....ummmmm > > > > > > Anyhow great for Adesk to jump in. Thanks Shaan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Shaan Hurley, Autodesk, Inc." wrote in > > message > > > news:40f540ab$1_2@newsprd01... > > > > Just adding to the discussion. There is a DWG read-only viewer > included > > > with > > > > the Autodesk DWF Composer Product. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > -Shaan > > > > > > > > "Rodney McManamy - CADzation" wrote in > message > > > > news:40f4abc3$1_1@newsprd01... > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > > > > Harry's original post is that he want a real "DATA" viewer. The > real > > > Data > > > > > viewer is AutoCAD or a native DWG file viewer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
*Ben Cochran
Message 20 of 26 (60 Views)

Re: When will we get a "real" viewer?

07-15-2004 08:51 AM in reply to: *HarryS
I am sorry if I misinterpreted the marketing statement: "We do advise the client to send a copy of the rebuilt dwg's back to the source explaining that neither DWF nor PDF are "secure formats"." The word security applies to a very wide range of problems and solutions, from password protection to digital signatures to digital rights management. The fact is that DWF and PDF protect your intellectual property better then DWG. That being said what kind of security are you looking for? Ben "Richard" wrote in message news:40f5cea2$1_2@newsprd01... > Hi Ben > > > This implies that a DWG is more secure then a DWF or PDF. Perhaps I > > am missing something, but that implication is simply wrong. > > Not sure what I wrote that lead you to your conclusions, > but I never said DWG was more sercure in any way. > I don't think DWF, PDF or DWG are secure at all and I never stated they > where. > > And I never said use DWG instead of DWF > I meerly said we get a lot of requests to convert DWF back to DWF > (acurate or not) > so people can edit the info. Typically these people have received the > DWF's when they > "should" have been sent DWG. But the source (incorrectly) thought they > would "secure their data". > by sending DWF > > > The exciting thing about a published format is that the owners of the data > > can publish data tailored for there audience in a representation they can > > use. Some audiences require object data like fire ratings on doors or cost > > of a bolt, etc. Some audiences should not receive this type of > intellectual > > property. The publisher has control of what is published and who they give > > the published data to. In other words, DWF can be used to protect the > > publisher's intellectual property while giving them the ability to share > > needed information. > > Great I think that is what we are looking for. > I just can't seem to see it in the menus of any Adesk products? > Is there an extra menu I need to load up? :-) > > > >
Announcements
Are you familiar with the Autodesk Expert Elites? The Expert Elite program is made up of customers that help other customers by sharing knowledge and exemplifying an engaging style of collaboration. To learn more, please visit our Expert Elite website.
Need installation help?

Start with some of our most frequented solutions or visit the Installation and Licensing Forum to get help installing your software.