Is Design Review discontinued?

[FT398]

So all the 2014 products are out now but Design Review 2014 is conspicuous in its absence. It isn't available for download (still only 2013 available) and it hasn't been included in any of the other product installers where it always has been in the past.

Have I missed something or is this the end of the road?

[rallen]

The 3d PDFs are a bit weak- Autodesk needs to expose the object models in AutoCAD and Revit to allow 3rd party PDFs to have access to layer and object information directly (If you have recently I apologize : ).

Otherwise for more massive BIM models and projects Native would be best (Especially for Revit) followed by IFC if absolutely necessary. Among some combination of PDFs, (IFC) and particularly compressed XML would cover the gaps of interoperability. There should be a checkbox to "[ ] Maintain native data for reimport" or some other additional file that went with the PDF or XML (Or PDFs managed in the in XML for that matter) to allow for an effective bug-free reimport.

@Scott.Sheppard - that would be huge... Maybe XMLs that manage the xdata integrate & point to the PDF files where the markup data is stored & tagged... Now that would be rocking without having to tweak the PDFs! Best of both worlds.

RON ALLEN
Project/BIM Manager
[Title: FIELDSTONE - Description: cid:image003.jpg@01CE1A96.6650F000]
FieldstoneAE.com

[warrentdo]

Hello All,

Well this thread has had a rocky ride, and still we are no nearer in finding a solution.

The main post was ‘is Design review discontinued’ simple enough question.

We still haven’t got a real answer.

Surely Autodesk will know what they have in store for design review? Surely they have a long term road map?

The post has also raised questions about Security ‘IF’ Design review was to move to the cloud, external/internal.

We havnt even touched on how this will work on secure networks with Virtual desktop Infrastructure.

We need to plan before any software goes on that.

People from very large companies have voiced their concerns and indeed smaller companies who work for/with them will also feel the need to follow suit. Still no real reply with dates and facts. (No offence Scott)

Incidentally I work in the nuclear sector and as you can imagine security is very high, needless to say top priority.

We have 'use PDF instead’ but can it be used in the same way as Design review with free 3d models and the mark up facility?

We have the issue of Vault. Surly it will use DWF for previewing? Can Vault dump pdfs to a folder for viewing automatically?

We need to be informed. I/we have systems to look after, security to enforce, procedures to write, people to train, customers to keep happy, efficiencies to keep.

Do I write DWF off now and start rewriting my to do list or bite the bullet and use another product?

This may not be a big thing for Autodesk, but it is for many people out there in which I am one of them.

Can anyone from Autodesk give an exact precise answer? (again no offence scott)

Regards

Warren.

[scott.sheppard]

1. There will be no more new versions of Design Review. Users can continue to use Design Review 2013 for as long as it meets their needs.

2. Design Review allows you to conduct an electronic review process that is based on publishing PDF or DWF files from Autodesk design applications. This includes both 2D and 3D data.

3. Going forward, Autodesk will be expanding its cloud offerings to address the electronic review process. This includes 3D and 2D. This will be based on keeping large data sets in one place and allowing all project stakeholders to work off of one copy of the data (using our "large model viewing capability) or generating artifacts like DWF files as necessary.

3. Today Vault relies on DWF files. The plans for Vault include adding the large model viewing capability to the Vault server so DWF files are no longer required.

I think I have been saying the same thing for this entire thread, but I hope you regard the above as your "real answer."

[TInloes]

Can you tell me if there will be replacement for ADR that has all the features we have come to depend on?

I manage mapping data for 20+ clients in a small Idaho County.  I service over 50 ADR users including Emergency Response (Ambulance, Police & Fire), Appraisers and Public Works.  The features they use most are hyperlinks, markup, measurement and GPS.  The GPS capability is critical to many of my users who use it to locate map features like property lines and utility features, water valves, meters, etc.  All of my users appreciate and depend on the hyperlinks (1000's of them in a typical map).  Currently all user are using ADR 2012, since the hyperlink feature does not work correctly in 2013.

Is there currently a product or something on the horizon that can do the same jobs - especially the GPS capability?

[scott.sheppard]

I recall the days when Brian Mathews, the inventor of the DWF format, got to ride in a police car to test our software. The city of Santa Rosa was the first one to use DWF files for emergency response. So we are well acquainted with this use case.

As far as future plans go, we don't announce things in advance. It's not what public companies do. So many things are subject to change. If I make a specific promise to you for a specific feature on a specific date, and then circumstances change, no one is happy. The way our process works now is that product managers collect feedback from customers, put together feature lists, teams develop the features, and then we announce then when they are very close to being ready. That way we live up to our promises. For people who are uncomfortable with the ambiguity, I can tell you that we won't be releasing an update to Autodesk Design Review.

So you should keep using ADR 2012 until you get your hands on a solution from us that you determine meets your needs because you have tried it as part of a beta or have the released version.

[WM_Ron_Allen]

I don't work for AD, but from my research- Autodesk is continuing Review in an interation the cloud… but not on the PC. They may provide a private cloud option down the road. Beyond that I haven't found much.

Take a look at BlueBeam- The interface is a bit overwhelming at first but they do have studio for collaborative markups- which can come in a private cloud version if you need it. They also install into AutoCAD, Revit and MSOffice with some really nice features.

[TInloes]

We have used it in ER vehicles for many years and will keep doing so as long as possible because there is no other alternative (for the price) and it IS a matter of life and death.  It was recently used in the middle of the night by a new ambulance driver to locate a house way out in the country who had a heart attack victim.  The GPS capability of ADR is great - I wish they would build it into Map.

[david_keene]

I try to keep an open mind but it would seem that Autodesk will continue to ignore this thread and not listen to its customers.

Run a poll, how many customers really want a cloud based offering for reviewing drawings and please dont assume that everyone uses Vault. (Sorry to say its not an enterprise PLM solution)

[tim.west]

Maybe rephrase that to "Not listen to its non-paying customers"

Autodesk have added 2D support to Navisworks, with quantification. Granted, the markup toolset is less than their free offering, but they get paid per license.

Autodesk are taking the money back...

[rkmcswain]

david_keene wrote:

I try to keep an open mind but it would seem that Autodesk will continue to ignore this thread and not listen to its customers.

Run a poll, how many customers really want a cloud based offering for reviewing drawings and please dont assume that everyone uses Vault. (Sorry to say its not an enterprise PLM solution)

You are forgetting one important thing about public companies.

The basic premise which you must keep in mind is that the interests of the shareholders supersede everything else.

That is no disrespect towards Autodesk, just fact. They have an obligation to the shareholders and I trust they are doing what they believe is right. If you or I don't like it, we can leave and start working with other vendors for our needs. Autodesk is banking that we won't.

[scott.sheppard]

You can believe we are doing this because we are beholden to stockholders, but I am telling you, that is not what's going on here. In 1996 DOS accounted for something like 99% of our AutoCAD customer base. In 1997, we dropped DOS, because we didn't listen to customers, and AutoCAD R14 went Microsoft Windows-only. Think about how bad Windows was as a platform back then. But we saw the future, and that's why we are still around as a company today.

We see cloud computing as the future. We are already seeing more and more usage of the internet now. PLM 360 is the fastest growing product Autodesk has ever had. Ever. Faster than AutoCAD, Inventor, Revit, 3ds Max, Design Review, etc.

In the same way we moved from DOS to Windows, we are moving from desktop to cloud. While we move, we continue to offer desktop applications as suites for customers who want them. In addition, Autodesk Design Review is still available. But eventually al of the world will be on the cloud, and the one thing we don't want is that everything is on the cloud except CAD data because we stuck with the desktop model. The times are changing, and we are responding to those changes, not the stockholders.

[rkmcswain]

Scott, I think we saying the same thing.

You (Autodesk) _are_ being responsible to your shareholders, and you're doing this by making the decisions that you think are best for the company; in this case moving from desktop to cloud (just like you mentioned DOS to Windows).

[scott.sheppard]

But the implication in this thread is that we are doing it because of the stockholders at the expense of the customers. Or am I reading it wrong?

Actually moving to the cloud is no picnic for the stockholders.

In a desktop model:

a. We have a one-time cost for media like DVDs, packaging, etc.

b. We get 100% of the revenue up front.

In a cloud-based model:

a. We have recurring costs for servers, electricity, etc.

b. We recognize the revenue monthly instead of up front..

So there are implications to our business model for moving to the cloud, but we are embarking on this course anyway because it is ultimately right for the customers.

Moving from DOS to Windows was the right thing for customers, because Windows because so ubiquitous that everything was on Windows, and one would have been hard-pressed to find new computers to buy that were still running DOS. Plus, all of their other software was Windows-based, so it would have been sad had Autodesk products been the only thing still on DOS just because we had such a large installed base there.

[toddw.schuler]

Scott,

Moving to the cloud is not picknic for the users as well.

The budgeting for this is potentially a nightmare. Joe Tech wants to use a new service Autodesk offers so he spends time learning how it works and then creates a plethera of data with this new service and Autodesk is more than happy to let him use it and store his data then send the bill at the end of the month.  Now the CAD Manager has to explain to management why the CAD fees suddenly doubled.

With a desktop model, we have a fixed cost based on users, not on how much they use which is uncontrollable for the CAD Manager.

Now we have cost montly vs the annual subscription fee.

So  we the CAD Managers have to manage the space used in the cloud as well as the services used and pay accordingly vs. our IT department managing server space.

That is all over and above the many security concerns mentioned prevously in this endless thread.  Obviously this has hit a vein with many users.  There are many reasons why most of us are not moving quickly to the cloud, management, security and budgeting are among the biggest concerns.  But we will be driven to this regardless of our concerns because it is "The Cloud" the latest greatest thing since AutoCAD and Autodesk has been on the bleeding edge many times. I fear that this may cut too deep for some.

[WM_Ron_Allen]

The move to the cloud is logical, and I agree with all the reasons Autodesk purports to move to the cloud. Computing power, scaleability, storage are all great if you have the access. The internet is almost there if they can leave net neutrailty alone.

The computing power from your end - I assume in in E3 or Azure or AutoDesk's own servers? Clouds are scaleable- so not all the CPUs and machines need to be running... Cloud computing is better for lots of reasons electricity, storage, speed to central storage... Once we get away from the standard computer model it will be even better.

Where I have difficulty is getting cut off from the internet... or if the price model changes... or if the servers off site go down.

And if we loose our data for an error we caused... Our bad. But if someone else looses it... Are they going to own the liabilty for that price? Old eulas prevent the supplier from being liable- new cloud model - shared liability? I trust the tech- but those unfamiliar with the cloud don't.

If I were to start a company I would use the public cloud- eventually migrating to a private cloud... Definately on-site backups of remote data (Backwards from teh current setup - but then again so is BIM : )CLOUD

[pendean]

We are ready to move 100% to the cloud and give up this insane desktop support burden We endure every 3-4years to keep up with the software and Servers.

Let's light that candle.

[David_Metcalf]

Not to stir the pot, but look where I highlighted the refernence to 2014.....

[WM_Ron_Allen]

2106 marks a new file format if I am not mistaken... without updates will DWF be able to open the new file format?

Saving down usually causes issues unless you are in flat-cad.

[pendean]

DWF file formats have not changed in AutoCAD 2016: ADR 2013 can read them.

[pendean]

If the world was typo-free and fact-checked all the time we'd be in heaven!