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Is Design Review discontinued?

326 REPLIES 326
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Message 1 of 327
FT398
32097 Views, 326 Replies

Is Design Review discontinued?

So all the 2014 products are out now but Design Review 2014 is conspicuous in its absence. It isn't available for download (still only 2013 available) and it hasn't been included in any of the other product installers where it always has been in the past.

 

Have I missed something or is this the end of the road?

326 REPLIES 326
Message 41 of 327
jggerth1
in reply to: scott.sheppard

Fankly, kiiling ADR is one of the more bone-headed, customer hostile moves that could be made.    The notion that an inherently insecure remote server scam is an appropriate replacement for an electronic markup and comment tool is so out of contact with the world that autodesk's customers live in that it beggars belief.

 

the _only _ saving grace would be releasing the DWF format documentation and the ADR source code as FOSS.

Message 42 of 327
dgorsman
in reply to: jggerth1

Way out there, to be certain.  I'm curious where the direction from this originated and where feedback was gathered from to support the position.  I'm usually the first one in to point out we don't captain the boat, we just try to stay ahead of the leaks.  But this is sounding (thanks to JGerth's avatar for inspiration) C'thulu-headed: I just do NOT understand.

 

Further, I could swear there used to be a forum for a "DWF toolkit" so people could code their own DWF utilities.  Has this been discontinued as well?

----------------------------------
If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.
"I don't know" is the beginning of knowledge, not the end.


Message 43 of 327
FT398
in reply to: dgorsman

The cynics among us could be excused for thinking that this could be largely driven by the Autodesk dollar. DWF as it stands earns them no money whereas using a cloud based system, where you are forced to use an Autodesk cloud, could well force users into a position whereby they have to pay for the privilege of using their storage. I know you can sign up for a limited amount of 'free' cloud storage but having 200 users with seperate cloud stores doesn't make for easy sharing. Or if you want larger storage you only get it when signed up to a subscription - so is this a way of forcing more people to take out subscriptions on other products? A free cloud as long as you pay for it via other means.

But then it's only cynics that would feel this way and I imagine there aren't too many people out there who are cynical towards Autodesks methods and reasons...
Message 44 of 327
scott.sheppard
in reply to: FT398

Our cloud services do support other forms of storage, e.g., Drop Box. It's not about the storage. It's about a few things.

 

1. Data is getting bigger and bigger. Sending files around is getting problematic.

2. It's about social. Teams need better ways to communicate where the communications are all kept in one place instead of strewn about in separate DWF files.

3. It's about mobile. People want to do everything on smart phones and tablet devices. These devices don't have enough CPU power and memory to do what is done on desktops yet that's what people want. So a server has to be involved to help provide a more powerful experience than what can be done on the device.

 

We are not dropping our desktop products. For customers who wish to stick with them, that is fine. In fact, I hope you buy them by the suite instead of individually. We will continue to have free downloads of Autodesk Design Review 2013. The DWF Toolkit is still freely available for download to anyone. Just don't be expecting a Design Review 2015 to come out. We'd work on an offline mode for our cloud services instead.



Scott Sheppard
Program Manager
Autodesk Labs
Autodesk, Inc.
Message 45 of 327
dgorsman
in reply to: scott.sheppard

Thanks for the reassurances Scott.  To adress a couple of your points:

 

2) While it is about social, to use another term we also need granularity.  We can't have everything tied up in a single off-site location.  Communication of ideas is best located on our internal network which is set up to meet our organizational needs.  We can use the cloud in addition to that when we need to include others outside our organization.

 

3) We aren't quite there yet.  BYOD (bring your own device) has gained currency in the development and marketing world, but in the engineering world it is still very much company-provided hardware.  Portability takes a huge backseat to useability; while it might be nice to take a tablet into the field to review drawings on-site its not very practical for a well pad in the armpit of nowhere in the middle of winter, nor for a plant facility which has strict limits on electronic devices (potentially explosive envirment and confidential information).

----------------------------------
If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.
"I don't know" is the beginning of knowledge, not the end.


Message 46 of 327
mbaker
in reply to: O.Maille

I think this is a bad idea, many users are not connected to the "Cloud" all the time, and need a local way to markup files for internal departmental users, i.e.. Engineering to manufacturing internally within the same physical location.Teams in Manufacturing will markup a "Design Review" file to represent the as build condition and send to the Eng. department to incorporate into the design, and they are both at the same physical location. So you are telling me that in order for this to continue in the future the Fab shop or manufacturing would need to publish a markup file on the "Cloud" , mark it up, then notify Engineering, who then must login via the web and review the markup, and that's efficient?

 

What is the plan for Markup's during the "ECO" creation process with the Vault products?

 

Mike B

Message 47 of 327
jggerth1
in reply to: scott.sheppard


@Anonymous wrote:

Our cloud services do support other forms of storage, e.g., Drop Box. It's not about the storage. It's about a few things.

 

1. Data is getting bigger and bigger. Sending files around is getting problematic.

2. It's about social. Teams need better ways to communicate where the communications are all kept in one place instead of strewn about in separate DWF files.

3. It's about mobile. People want to do everything on smart phones and tablet devices. These devices don't have enough CPU power and memory to do what is done on desktops yet that's what people want. So a server has to be involved to help provide a more powerful experience than what can be done on the device.

 

We are not dropping our desktop products. For customers who wish to stick with them, that is fine. In fact, I hope you buy them by the suite instead of individually. We will continue to have free downloads of Autodesk Design Review 2013. The DWF Toolkit is still freely available for download to anyone. Just don't be expecting a Design Review 2015 to come out. We'd work on an offline mode for our cloud services instead.


re item 1.  Data in design is getting bigger - all the more reason to keep a comment and review tool that works with a lightweight file format.  Few things make less sense than to make available to partners a couple hundred mb c3d file, with half a dozen attached/overlayed Xrefs so they can review for conflicts with their design.  ADR makes that a simple task now.  Far from perfect mind you, and could stand some usability imnprovements to be a valid red-yellow-green tool, but it's quite workable.

 

re item 2.  No, it's not about social it's about security, confidentiality, privacy, trust.    lolcat videos, like buttons, pictures of the latest jalapeno hamburgern twitte quips -- that's social.  collaboration between professionals and professional organizations is an equus ferus caballo of a different species entirely.   

 

Now, if Autodesk thinks there's a real market for remotely hosted professional collaboration services, then they ought to develop and produce a collaboration tool and charge for it - maybe call it Redspark - i think that name is still under Adesk's umbrella?  Funding the development of 360 off my subscription dollars rather than fixing or improving the software tools I am paying for is notwhat many people would call ethical.  On a par with taking LDDT subscription money with no intent of fixing LDDT. 

 

I'll readily admit that if Henry Ford had asked people what they wanted for transportation, they would have asked for better horses.  The difference is that horses were readly available from many sources, and Ford Motor Company did not succeed by killing horse, they suceeded by developing a product people wanted more than they wanted a large equine to haul them around.  The alternatives to the Model T were eclised by the Model T on the basis of what it did.

 

So build a collaboration tool, and sell it on its merits.  when Adesk actually competes on product merits - you guys do a pretty darn good job.  when you compete based on customer lock-in, FUD, and legal shenanigans, not so much.

 

re item 3.  That's a pretty elitist attitude.  While it may seem bizarre, the vast majority of the world your customers live and work in does not have fiber running to the door, nor unlimited 4G.  Instead we deal with data caps, limited bandwidth, counter-productive IT polices, overage charges, and no coverage.  For that very limited subset of people who think they can do design work on a gold iPhone hanging out in a latte bar- go ahead and offer them a tool for that.  just don't insist that the rest of us pay for it.

 

Re your last paragraph,  That seems a bit disengenuous.  One the one hand Adesk is going to continue with desktop tools, on the other hand you're saying that the desktop ADR will not be upgraded/released.  Personally I don't care if you don't release a Design Review branded 2015 - as long as you release one that works and that integrates into MarkupManager inside 2015.    frankly - the 'myth of the model year' for product releases has been hampering Autodesk more than it's been helping.  So go ahead and quit using a ficticious year of release - just make a better tool.

 

And if internal corporate politics can't permit that - then provide the ADR source code under a BSD, MIT, Apache, or other FOSS license so someone else can update and maintain it.

Message 48 of 327
Tim.West
in reply to: scott.sheppard


@Anonymous wrote:

1. Data is getting bigger and bigger. Sending files around is getting problematic.

2. It's about social. Teams need better ways to communicate where the communications are all kept in one place instead of strewn about in separate DWF files.

3. It's about mobile. People want to do everything on smart phones and tablet devices. These devices don't have enough CPU power and memory to do what is done on desktops yet that's what people want. So a server has to be involved to help provide a more powerful experience than what can be done on the device.


Scott,

1. File size has been a problem for a long time now, and cloud services haven't caught up yet.

2. You can insult users file management and organisation if you want, yet a software solution won't fix the problem. Having files "strewn about" is the result of culture and practice, not a cloud service. I would prefer to track design documents manually, and have the ability to digitally markup (Revit>dwf>Revit>etc). Autodesk have been asked to resolve this for 'dwf 360' for over a year. So Autodesk suggest that users can't keep their files organised, yet can be trusted to manually translate multiple markups? - Let them eat cake?

3. dwf in the cloud on an iPad requires geometric truncation. If the user doesn't do it cleverly themselves, the cloud translators do it for them, making the data ugly and inaccurate. Sure there is a need, just don't replace a functional tool with a disfuctional dream untill it is fully realised. Hey while you are there, maybe survey your users and see what 'features' they currently use and incorporate those, instead of attempting to dictate what practices 'should' be.

 

The past supports the future, don't shoot the past.

Message 49 of 327
rkmcswain
in reply to: scott.sheppard


scott.sheppard wrote:

1. Data is getting bigger and bigger. Sending files around is getting problematic.


Our LAN/WAN can handle the files we create.


scott.sheppard wrote:


2. It's about social. Teams need better ways to communicate where the communications are all kept in one place instead of strewn about in separate DWF files.

 


We do keep them in one place, on our WAN.


scott.sheppard wrote:

3. It's about mobile. People want to do everything on smart phones and tablet devices. These devices don't have enough CPU power and memory to do what is done on desktops yet that's what people want. So a server has to be involved to help provide a more powerful experience than what can be done on the device.


No. We do not want to "do everything" on smart phones and tablets. Yes, I understand we do not represent your entire user base, but this thread shows we are not alone.

Forgive me in case I missed it, but what is the word on DWG Trueview? Is it being discontinued also?

R.K. McSwain     | CADpanacea | on twitter
Message 50 of 327
scott.sheppard
in reply to: rkmcswain

RK:

I understand that you keep data on your local area network. Eventually I see a day where Autodesk offers a private cloud version of its solutions after we iron out issues with the public cloud version. That way employees can tap into your private cloud from their phones and tablets. I have not heard even a hint that DWG TrueView is being discontinued. Since DWG TrueView is a trimmed down version of AutoCAD,and AutoCAD is still in full swing, I don't expect any change there. For the design work, many people still want to use desktops and laptops. On the other hand, for design review, I wish I had a $1 for every time someone asked me for a markup tool for the iPad. People want to view and markup by walking around with an iPad, taking pictures, adding markup clouds, and having that data sync back to the original design.

 

Tim:

You are free to continue to use Autodesk Design Review 2013 which is available for download. This is the preferred method for an electronic review process until a cloud-solution catches up and surpasses it.



Scott Sheppard
Program Manager
Autodesk Labs
Autodesk, Inc.
Message 51 of 327
rkmcswain
in reply to: scott.sheppard


@Anonymous wrote:

RK:

I have not heard even a hint that DWG TrueView is being discontinued. Since DWG TrueView is a trimmed down version of AutoCAD,and AutoCAD is still in full swing, I don't expect any change there. 

 


Thanks for the info on DWG Trueview.

R.K. McSwain     | CADpanacea | on twitter
Message 52 of 327
Lance127
in reply to: scott.sheppard

And what about the people that don't have high speed internet availiable? As in we can not get it where we are? Downloading the install software is not even a posability for us. The people that most often use Design Review don't even have internet access, what then since Autodesk seems determined to not allow network deployment of this.


Lance W.
Inventor Pro 2013 (PDS Ultimate)
Vault Pro 2013
Windows 7 64
Xeon 2.4 Ghz 12GB
Message 53 of 327
sielim
in reply to: FT398

to clarify - does this mean the DWF file format will die - or will 360 keep using it?  we're looking to replace our Survey web app next year.  when the user views the record for the room, we display the drawing for the floor (dwf) and turn layers on/off on the fly - to show them what room their looking at and which rooms belong to their department .  i don't want to rewrite this, thinking we can display DWF files in our web page, if it's going to be phaed out.

any long term, file format thoughts - for web page embedding/display ( & turning layers on/off on the fly )  - or just "wait and see" what happens w 360?

context: we currently use a program called "EZHatch" (dveloped by CAFM) - which creates the DWF files with seperate "hatch" layers for each room in our drawings, and also adds some text from the database (room numbers).

thanks in advance!!

Message 54 of 327
scott.sheppard
in reply to: Lance127

Lance:

 

You should try the silent install for widespread deployment of Autodesk Design Review.

 

http://images.autodesk.com/adsk/files/adr2013_install_guide.htm#InstallADRSilent



Scott Sheppard
Program Manager
Autodesk Labs
Autodesk, Inc.
Message 55 of 327
scott.sheppard
in reply to: sielim

Sielim:

 

The DWF file format is open source. Anyone can download it. Autodesk Design REview is still available for download. So you can stick with what you have. The publishing part of DWF comes from our design applications that we continue to sell bundled in suites. I am only stating two things:

 

1. There won't be any new releases of the application known as Autodesk Design Review.

 

2. We will improve our web-based services, such as adding an offline mode for people without connectivity, under the Autodesk 360 umbrella to provide an electronic review process.

 

For people who wish to continue using Autodesk Design Review and the DWF format as is, we are happy with that.



Scott Sheppard
Program Manager
Autodesk Labs
Autodesk, Inc.
Message 56 of 327
sielim
in reply to: scott.sheppard

thanks for your response.  the question then is - how stable is the dwf file format expected to be?  wondering if the dwf file format might change in 2015 (or 2016) and then any web app using the 2013 api might become obsolete?

Message 57 of 327
pendean
in reply to: sielim

I doubt a publicly traded company is going to answer that question in a public forum: future forecasts are as hard for corporations as they are for individuals. Only time will tell.
Message 58 of 327
scott.sheppard
in reply to: sielim

Sielim:

As Dean points out, I can't make any iron-clad promises, but I do not expect the DWF format to change, because that is not where our focus is.



Scott Sheppard
Program Manager
Autodesk Labs
Autodesk, Inc.
Message 59 of 327
peteh
in reply to: scott.sheppard

I have been programming AutoCA since they added VBA to it.  I can't even remember the release number.

 

Next they released a product called Mechanical Desktop for 3D work... greatest thing in the wold they told me.  But wait, Inventor (costs a lot more) came along and then they dumped Mechanical Desktop.  Inventor had projects and the sales people really pushed how great that was.  Then, suddenly they decided projects were no good and removed them from a release of Invenor only to put pojects back in SP1 for that version.

 

Also, I have been using dwf since WHIP!.  I can't count the number of applications to view dwf they have made.  They even discontinued dwf and made a dwg reader that didn't work, so they went back to dwf.

 

What I am trying to say is Autodesk is always changing their model.  I don't think they have a long term commitment to anything.  It's all about $.  They are a just a company looking to make the most money they can.  That is their focus.

 

Message 60 of 327
taralis
in reply to: peteh

Totally agree.

No clear announcements, no explanations, no future plans...

Although Autodesk is not a charity organization and all they do is for profit - user oriented policy is simply outrages, especially if you take into account such a big thing as an filetype support. Huge design organizations create they databases and design-construction worklfows based on certain file type circulation.

What's next? DWG? 🙂

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