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Distinguished Contributor
jmaeding
Posts: 979
Registered: ‎12-27-2006
Message 1 of 12 (1,171 Views)

Eric, what is your teams interaction with the ADN leaders?

1171 Views, 11 Replies
08-31-2012 08:53 AM

Hi Eric,

I replied to Keans OPen ADN advertisement with some replies, please read here:

http://through-the-interface.typepad.com/through_the_interface/2012/08/the-adn-program-opens-its-doo...

 

These ADN leaders are like the most talented people I have seen at programming and mixing of technology. In fact, every Autodesk person I have met has been talented in their field, and I can only conclude that there is some other department at Autodesk holding back the revision of this DG's format. Maybe its money. Do we need to talk to Carl Bass and get some kind of campaign going to convince him? What is the proper way to get your team the resources you need to do basic revisions like the option to view as "compact", where each header is one line, and its a tree view like explorer where replies truly show up under what they were replying to. Just that alone would cover 50% of the slow scanning/reading problem.

If you had fixed this way back, I bet theswamp.org would barely have a dwg following, except for those doing bricscad.

Its time to heal the wound, Adesk needs to pour money on this and redo it completely if necessary. Users will not mind a transition if its going in the right direction.

Valued Mentor
KerryBrown
Posts: 269
Registered: ‎11-29-2008
Message 2 of 12 (1,152 Views)

Re: Eric, what is your teams interaction with the ADN leaders?

08-31-2012 04:32 PM in reply to: jmaeding

[quote]

If you had fixed this way back, I bet theswamp.org would barely have a dwg following, except for those doing bricscad.

[/quote]

 

That has to be the silliest statement  I've read this week.

 

 

 

Kerry.

//-------------------------------------------------------

class keyThumper<T> : Lazy<T>;      another  Swamper

Distinguished Contributor
jmaeding
Posts: 979
Registered: ‎12-27-2006
Message 3 of 12 (1,140 Views)

Re: Eric, what is your teams interaction with the ADN leaders?

09-01-2012 08:11 PM in reply to: KerryBrown

possibly, I am just saying I saw a surge of pareticipation in theswamp.org right about the time adesk cut nntp.

No offense intended, theswamp does not sell a major cad product, while adesk does.
I understand Adesk's decision to cut nntp, and I'm not saying there was some obvious alternative that gave the same service level.

But just like my own programming efforts, I expect constant improvement, and its not happened, at least for fundamentals.

I continually see adesk do incremental improvements on a flawed foundation (C3D in mind, mainly the data sharing mechanism), and they need to get the web DG interface foundation fixed. I keep saying its a win-win, and really believe that. Hopefully the higher ups will pay attention, though I don't know what catches their attention.

Distinguished Contributor
jmaeding
Posts: 979
Registered: ‎12-27-2006
Message 4 of 12 (1,110 Views)

Re: Eric, what is your teams interaction with the ADN leaders?

09-05-2012 08:17 AM in reply to: jmaeding

wow, no response from anyone on the Adesk side.

Check out this screenshot from a Bentley site knowledgebase search:

listing.jpg

I think they fit double what adesk does in its DG, into 1/2 page on their site.

I might say its a bit more compact than I would want, but the ability to review lots of headers at once is key to participation by experienced users who do not have time to waste on sparse web pages.

Alumni
Jillian.Bejtlich
Posts: 341
Registered: ‎05-28-2010
Message 5 of 12 (1,103 Views)

Re: Eric, what is your teams interaction with the ADN leaders?

09-05-2012 09:51 AM in reply to: jmaeding

Hi JMaeding,

 

Thanks for the input. I'll admit I'm still trying to make perfect sense of everything, but sounds like you have some frustration with ADN, products, and forum UI. Correct?

 

Unfortunately I can't help much with ADN. I'm glad to see they're making an effort to make more information available to more users which is great, but outside of that I haven't had much of a chance to work with the folks in that part of the company. I know they're a great group though and seriously dedicated to what they do.

 

As for products, changes are always being made and moving forward we're looking at trying to introduce new ways of letting users interact with developers and let Autodesk know what needs to be changed or added. We're very much in the research and pilot stage with this project, but if it looks to be what's needed it should be a great improvement.

 

Finally, the forum UI needs work and we know it. We've been gathering information from users to figure out what the future of this forum should look like, perform, and function. You are far from the first person to mention the good old days of NNTP and I know you won't be the last. My mission is to figure out what it was about NNTP that made it such a desirable platform and how we can use those design and function philosophies in future designs.

 

As always (other users can attest to this), input is welcome - so let me know what's on your mind!

 

Thank you!



Jillian Bejtlich
Forum Community Manager
Autodesk, Inc.
Distinguished Contributor
jmaeding
Posts: 979
Registered: ‎12-27-2006
Message 6 of 12 (1,098 Views)

Re: Eric, what is your teams interaction with the ADN leaders?

09-05-2012 11:09 AM in reply to: Jillian.Bejtlich

ah, thanks a bunch for your reply.

This all got started by Stephen Preston's advertisement of "ADN Open" which makes the formerly private ADN kb, public now.

He also mentioned more participation by Autodesk in thses DG's.

So it seems to me autodesk is continually compressing support into its DG's. Sounds good to me, but the UI of this web forum is very confusing and time consuming, thus affecting both us and Autodesk since they are using it more and more.

The issues at hand are very simple and fundamental, but I should state what I consider the basics:

  1.  Participation is directly related to ease of readability
  2.  Readability means looking at lots of "headers" (message titles) quickly, and structured like a tree according to who replied to what
  3.  Readability also means maximum content on each page, and that has typically been one header per line
  4.  There needs to be a separate pane to read a messages body, so my header tree structure does not get blown out of the water by a page long body content.

Now, all this was available through a prog called Forte Agent, also outlook express was ok.

Its a very simple solution though, you need two panes, one for treeview of headers, one for display of message body selected.

I get that adesk wants a prepackaged tool, but if that tool does not exist, they should not give up and just pick something so they can say they have a web interface.

What I cannot figure out is why there has been no movement on this on adesk's end.

Is it that they requested resources and did not get them, or that they do not want to request resources, which would imply their current interface is not good enough. Too many people are suffering to have this be some kind of political issue, and there are so many posts explaining the problems, how can the gorilla be missed so far by the tech people?

It does not add up, and there is no lack of constructive comments explaining how to solve most of the issues.

 

Mentor
Steve_Johnson
Posts: 604
Registered: ‎05-01-2005
Message 7 of 12 (1,082 Views)

Re: Eric, what is your teams interaction with the ADN leaders?

09-07-2012 12:00 AM in reply to: jmaeding

I was never a big NNTP user, but I can agree with most of what James has to say. The space-inefficiency of the layout and the lack of a proper threaded view (so we can see who was replying to what) were both complained about hard and loud when those problems were introduced.

Steve Johnson - blog nauseam - ClassicArray
Distinguished Contributor
jmaeding
Posts: 979
Registered: ‎12-27-2006
Message 8 of 12 (1,071 Views)

Re: Eric, what is your teams interaction with the ADN leaders?

09-07-2012 10:33 AM in reply to: jmaeding

Thx for backup Steve.

What I keep hoping is someone high enough up at Adesk will have to actually use the DG's often, and get fed up with the confusing nature of its UI. People from ADN would exactly fit that description, but they are on the inside so might not want to pick on other departments. If I can push the issue a bit, it might get people talking and possibly get a cast on the broken arm and get it healed.

I feel a Carl Bass email coming on.

Distinguished Mentor
Jason.Piercey
Posts: 1,183
Registered: ‎04-04-2001
Message 9 of 12 (1,038 Views)

Re: Eric, what is your teams interaction with the ADN leaders?

09-11-2012 02:37 PM in reply to: Jillian.Bejtlich

Jillian.Bejtlich wrote:

My mission is to figure out what it was about NNTP that made it such a desirable platform and how we can use those design and function philosophies in future designs. 


It was simple, functional, and not cluttered with "feel-good-pat-yourself-on-the-back" nonsense

(ie:  color coded titles, silly names and/or "ranks" based on post count, kudos, bla bla bla)

 

NNTP offered:

Static navigation pane

Properly threaded views

Available to view offline (not that I used that aspect of it, but many did)

 

Really a streamlined interface without all the fluffy eye-candy

Distinguished Contributor
jmaeding
Posts: 979
Registered: ‎12-27-2006
Message 10 of 12 (1,031 Views)

Re: Eric, what is your teams interaction with the ADN leaders?

09-11-2012 02:51 PM in reply to: Jason.Piercey

Jillian,

Can you comment on any conversations you have had internally on this?

I would guess I have brought this up with almost every main adesk person I can think of.

In particular, ask Shaan Hurley about it. He explained to me why NNTP was cut, back when it happened.

thx

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