Raster Plot Device causes C3D Labels to rescale improperly

[coopdetat]

Two different plot settings (saved as page setups) will produce different results for exactly the same 34"x22" output.  I have been bucking this problem since I started using AutoCAD C3D.  It just should not be so, but I cannot get any help from Autodesk on this.  With some help from some Master's here I have a program to adjust the label scaling of my point labels so they are readable in both model space and layouts and when non-raster plotters are used, but now I must adapt it for other C3D labels before I can use them.

Below is my setup for plotting ANSI-D (34"x22") TIFF files at 288dpi.  I have been using this plot device and setup almost exclusively since about 2001.  The output is 9792 pixels x 6336 pixels which is set as a custom paper size to match my 288 dpi resolution (it is 288dpi because that is a multiple of 72dpi which is the default resolution of AutoCAD's TIFF raster output.  It is 72dpi regardless of the fact that the plot scale is specified as 288 pixels = 1 unit or 288dpi).  I must reset the dpi to 288 using image software so the resulting PDF will have a size of 34"x22" instead of 136"x88".  You can see in the preview output I captured that their size difference cannot be attributed to these size differences.  The plots are of the exact same layout showing point labels with only the page setup changed.

TIFF Plot Setup

PDF Plot Setup 

TIFF Plot Output (34"x22")

PDF Plot Output (34"x22")

So, does anyone know how to get Autodesk to address or even acknowledge this label scaling error?

[wfberry]

You have given a lot of data, info, etc.   However, one item is missing, I think.  Were you able to print before in Windows 7 or was it Windows XP?  From my perspective,  Microsoft had to make changes that will not work.  I know I have a couple of work-a-rounds for my HP Lazer printers.  I cannot print directly but have to go through the PDF stage first.  I could not tell what printer you were using either.   

Bill

[coopdetat]

I did say I have been printing this way since 2001.  I know I was using Win XP Pro then and I am using Win 7 Pro now, but the plots are fine.  The C3D label scaling is not fine.  It is changing between page setups for raster plot devices and non-raster plot devices that exposed this problem.  The problem occurs and  can be seen without plotting at all.  The display scale of C3D labels will change when the page setup is assigned to the layout using the Page Setup Manager.

In my case the specific raster plot device that I use is "TIFF Version 6 (CCITT G4 2D Compression)"  It is shown in the Tiff Plot Parameters image in the Printer/plotter Name field but it may be too small to make out.  I started using this plotter way back in 2001 to fix issues I had with HP printers/plotters doing strange things with wipeouts.  I remember that the preview always looked fine but the plot was screwed up badly.  On a hunch I tried plotting to a raster image on the assumption that the preview was a raster image.  I had to work out some resolution, pen size, and scale issues before the plots were acceptable but the output was always exacly what it should have been.  Wipeouts wiped out what they were supposed to and there were no black boxes and no shifting or resizing of the wiped out areas. These were the typical errors we were having on our HP plots.

 After settling on this solution I have very rarely ever used another plotter.  This cut down the number of plotters and pen tables I had to manage to just one each (including half-size since that is an image dpi fix after the full-size plot).  The image output is either run through dpi resizing automatically (thank you IrfanView and autolisp) or resized in batch or individually afterwards (thank you IrfanView).  I also use IrfanView with an addon (both free downloads) to create my single or multipage PDF's from the images.

This method has proven to be the fastest and most efficient way to produce high quality PDF's of smallest possible file size from AutoCAD. It has earned great respect for these attributes from the engineers that I work for and our IT dept. which constantly struggles with expanding disk storge use.  That is why it is so distressing that I cannot seem to get Autodesk's attention on this problem.  Changing a page setup on the layout tab should not resize all of the C3D labels.  My choices are to either not use C3D labels at all (not a very good choice), use a different plotter (an even worse choice), or write custom programs to implement a label style resizing workaround so my labels will be the right size (the best choice but one I wish I did not need).  If the labels are the right size on my plots they must be resized so I can edit the model.  If I resize them to plot correctly they are huge in the model and obliterate themselves and everything else in the model because masking is on.  if masking was off it would still be an unintelligble mess.  On top of all of that, if another user wants to plot using their non-raster plotter page setup the labels on their plots will be huge.

[SethHall]

I tested this on my machine, and I got different results that you are reporting. Unexpected results actually, but I did not notice any scaling issues.

[coopdetat]

I can't imagine why my results would be so very very consistent across multiple labelling styles but you do not get the same results.  Did you use the exact same settings for plotter, paper size, and dpi that I did?

I have confirmed that the rescaled effect I see is exactly 1/12th of the expected size.  I have already created a lisp routine that will reset the text size of the contour labels for when my TIFF page setup is active on a sheet.

I suspect the problem has something to do with the "unitless" nature arbitrarily ascribed to raster plots by Autodesk (I contend that dpi is a unit spec).  It seems that some sort of unit must be used to calculate the correct scaling for these scaled features.  If the page is "unitless" then what scale is used and where is its value obtained?

[SethHall]

I followed your directions, and even created a brand new PC3 file. With the results being exactly 1/12 of the expected size, I would have to assume something with the units is coming into play. Either way I am glad to hear you have another option with your LISP. If there is anything else you can think of, please let us know and we will test again.

[coopdetat]

If I find out anything else that may shed some light on this problem I will post it.  On a secondary front, I hope this is the catalyst for finally giving raster plots the units they so richly deserve.  Acknowledging that dpi is a unit expression may even be the solution to this problem.