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Who still uses plain old Autocad?

46 REPLIES 46
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Message 1 of 47
pcaruthers
2172 Views, 46 Replies

Who still uses plain old Autocad?

we do, i've been trying to get us upgraded to Revit or even Architecture for the past 4 years with no luck...company had a very bad experience with a failed up grade to ADT years ago...

 

so I'm just wondering. How many still use straight old autocad?

 

Paul C

46 REPLIES 46
Message 41 of 47
jmcintyre
in reply to: pcaruthers

I've been using Autocad Architecture for 10 years. I implemented it into the company I was working with at the time, as Adesk were offering huge discounts for clients to upgrade. This was before revit was acquired by them of course. The great thing about ACA is it's built on top of acad, so you can utilise the software immediately without any change to your workflow. You then introduce portions of the AEC objects a little at a time. That was the plan anyhow. Some people 'got it', some didn't. Most just wanted to keep working the same way they've worked for the last xxx years. So the down side of ACA is also the fact it's built on top of acad.

 

With revit the users are forced to change their ways, as it's a completely differant beast. I'm not suggesting one is 'better' than the other, but you could download the 30 day trial version of each and decide for yourself. Or you could ask your boss to buy one version of the revit architecture suite, which includes both. If you then show what can be done with either, I'm positive any reasonable employer with half a brain will see the advantages.

 

Prior to using ACA I had been using vanila acad for 10 years and I was/am reasonably proficient. I would never go back now, as I can now document at least twice as fast in 3D than in 2D. There was a learning curve, oh yes. But in the end it was worth the pain. Sure I still detail in 2D, but anything down to 1:20 scale is off the model. The one thing you can't do without for any software change, is training.

 

HIGHLY recommend moving to 3D documentation/BIM.

Message 42 of 47
JamesMaeding
in reply to: J.A.Mounteer

No, if you talk to real users, almost none of them love Civil 3D.

A few that work on the same kinds of jobs, over and over, have found their way, but its a narrow groove of people.

We all wish it worked (efficient, stable, and no shortcutting real design to fit into the software's object molds), but reality is not so nice.

The problem is Autodesk tried to conquer everest, but only established 2nd base camp.

The civil industry is a huge mix right now, of old land desktop, lisps, and C3D.

You really have to test what works in productiion without crashing, to find workflows that make money.

 

Autodesk is chasing neat things, but is implementing features too soon.  What i don't get is why they think that helps, because the real users test and reject the stuff that appears the first year usually.

They are trying to attract the ones that do not test, so don't be one of them.


internal protected virtual unsafe Human() : mostlyHarmless
I'm just here for the Shelties

Message 43 of 47
J.A.Mounteer
in reply to: JamesMaeding

Interesting, I always got the vibe you all were frustrated but still enjoyed the program.

 

At it's heart, AutoDesk is run by tech geeks, not professionals using the software on a daily basis to make a living. That's the reason they're always chasing their tail and we all get frustrated.  It always feels like they're not listening because "we know better, look at how awesome this feature is" is used as a frequent distraction from older features still not working the way professionals work... or using terms the professionals actually use. (I'm looking at you, ACA Roof Slabs and auto roof.)

 

I agree with testing things before implementing them. We're still on 09 because of this and won't move on until at least the next release.  The cynic in me, however, notes that Adesk often talks to those above the everyday users to convince them to purchase a 'solution' and those folks don't want you to wait on implementing what they just spent tens of thousands of dollars on.  Ah, what a joy.

 


@jmaeding wrote:

No, if you talk to real users, almost none of them love Civil 3D.

A few that work on the same kinds of jobs, over and over, have found their way, but its a narrow groove of people.

We all wish it worked (efficient, stable, and no shortcutting real design to fit into the software's object molds), but reality is not so nice.

The problem is Autodesk tried to conquer everest, but only established 2nd base camp.

The civil industry is a huge mix right now, of old land desktop, lisps, and C3D.

You really have to test what works in productiion without crashing, to find workflows that make money.

 

Autodesk is chasing neat things, but is implementing features too soon.  What i don't get is why they think that helps, because the real users test and reject the stuff that appears the first year usually.

They are trying to attract the ones that do not test, so don't be one of them.


 

Message 44 of 47
JaelaDawn
in reply to: J.A.Mounteer

Good tip mounteer - I'll look into it.

 

The majority of the lots we work on are hillside (aka STEEP) and don't fit any template. Guess that's why they call 'em CUSTOM lots, huh? But that means we can't just do something similar to what we did on the last one, 'cause this one is entirely different. And, of course, the homeowner doesn't want to have to put any steps in the house. There's 30 feet of fall across the footprint, but they don't want any steps. Go figure.

 

And has anybody noticed that there are no tidy little rectangular lots anymore? Many of the ones I work on have at least 6 sides, plus a few arcs.

 

Oh well, if it was easy just anybody could do it ...

 

Jaela

Message 45 of 47
JamesMaeding
in reply to: JaelaDawn

yep, you cannot use grading objects effectively to do what I call "no slop subdivision grading", as the slopes must be 2:1 to themselves, including terrace drains and walls.

Once you have your contours and breaklines, go ahead and use C3D for the surface and whatever callouts you can get it to do.

Either way, it still crashes more than it should, and all these custom objects have screwed up drawing sharing.

Another thing that needs to be done is merging the "feature line" and "alignment" objects.  No reason to have two interfaces for what is essentially an alignment.

Then they need to make pipe networks follow alignments for horiz and vert, plus allow arbitrary connection points to structures, then they are approaching base camp 3.

Add in ability to rotate station/offset labels, and you have a tent set up.  Another two years to shake out bugs, and people can actually stay at the camp.

See how far they have to go?

The fact is, developers like me will have written BIM object progs for civil by then, so why wait for Autodesk to stumble along?

They need to focus on making their program better for CAD Managers, so it becomes a platform we cannot live without.


internal protected virtual unsafe Human() : mostlyHarmless
I'm just here for the Shelties

Message 46 of 47
dgorsman
in reply to: J.A.Mounteer

If you look at the tools required for creating sofware and the sheer velocity at which the tools themselves are being advanced, its easy to see why those who design the software aren't that familiar with actually using the software as a whole.

 

"Oh, we'll wait until next year to release so it we can make sure its properly tested" becomes "Oh  &*t, half our users just upgraded to Win 7 and want support *now* or they will move to Product X which already does".

 

"We need to sit down and figure out a work process that will suit our most common users" becomes "The deadline is approaching fast and we still have to do tasks C,D *and* E, so we will just have to use our testing one - after all, it worked for the test programmers".

 

"Lets get the progammers into some training so they can better simulate a real-world test situation" becomes "The new operating system requires us to use .NET 8.0, so we should migrate our code now rather than later.  The training budget will have to be spent on training the users on our core software."

 

Theres just no time for anything these days.

----------------------------------
If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.
"I don't know" is the beginning of knowledge, not the end.


Message 47 of 47
JamesMaeding
in reply to: dgorsman

That is a fragile line though.  The only reason Civil 3D survives is because no one has done decent BIM objects for civil's.

What happens is people start experimenting with other programs, then the momentum of the monopoly is broken.

So I'll pay for the base AutoCad that has a nice .net API, but will be cutting way back on Civil 3D's.  This will cut our sub fees down by about 40%.  That is every year too.

Then watch out when the clones get a .net API.  Still, AutoCad is a great foundational program and worth $500 a year if you are working full time with it.


internal protected virtual unsafe Human() : mostlyHarmless
I'm just here for the Shelties

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