What would you call my position?

[Anonymous]

Hi all,

I've read a lot of posts on job descriptions, job expectations, job duties on this forum etc. I do feel I fit into the "Cad Manager" description by taking care of our Autodesk software, trouble shooting software problems, problem solver in general, automater of functions and so on. As well as taking care of all of those functions I also do production work. I do this all while not actually being a "Cad Manager", I have been recently asked to go way beyond what I consider to be my "normal job" description by programming VB express to completely automate our product lines. I don't have a problem doing this. I am just getting to that point where I feel as if I'm being taken advantage of by my company.

Should I expect my company to reward me for taking initiative and going above and beyond what I consider to be my call of duty? How do I professionally approach the notion of more money? Possibly a new position or a title. How much do you feel that I should be getting paid for "programming" our product line?

If we hired an outside contractor to do the programming, I know the cost associated with paying those programmers. While I do not expect that type of money (the last programmer was paid 148.60\hr.) I would like some x-tra cash for doing this type of work. My company did take me out of production work temporarily to complete the task... So maybe my std. Pay is good because I am not doing production work.

I've always did what was asked of me, I never really gave anyone any problems, I just did my job.... So well that I have been passed up for promotion due to the concern that it would put to big of a hole in production work.... I don't really want to change jobs right now as I've been here for 18yrs.

So what do you think? Any advice would be appreciated,

Thanks...

[Anonymous]

i wouldn't worry about the TITLE just worry about what your pay.....if you enjoy what you do stick with you current tile but just tell your firm they need to reward you more appropriatley with a pay rise

[Anonymous]

Your right.... I actually don't care about the title or position. My main concern is the $$$. Anybody, out there do work along the same line? How much do you get/expect to get paid for this type of work? I guess what I'm saying is, I would like to know if my current salery is in line with this weird crossover draftsman/designer/programmer/IT/cad guru position. I am a senior member of our design team so I am at the top of my pay scale for what I normally do, is it unreasonable to expect more pay with this added responsibility? As I'm sure everyone is familiar with, when I'm done generating these automation applications..... it becomes a carreers worth of trouble shooting, tweeking, tinkering to keep them running, especially as upgrades and changes in software occure.

Thanks for the input!!: smileywink:

[dlandisadaptek]

I'd call you're position mine, right down to the been here 18 years (in February).  Try adding ERP/MRP implementation/troubleshooting to that task list as well.  Very curious to hear any responses.  I'd think at least we deserve a cool hat with multiple brims to rotate around as we shift between tasks.

As far as the lack of promotion, I've heard the old adage, "those who can do, those who can't get promoted to managment"... so I agree that title is not all that important.

- Dave

[Anonymous]

Dave,

Funny you say that... I'm in training classes right now as I'm typing this. Training for what? How to program relative to our ERP system.... Yea, my hat is getting bigger... My old adage is "If a horse runs, let him run"...

Bill

[Anonymous]

Doesn't that depend on where he's running? Cliffs aren't the best place. And if he runs away?

[Anonymous]

Yea... That is the way I see it..... Down a dark tunnel with a light at the end. My company on the other hand, just goes with  "If a horse runs, let him run"... Probably why we have a high turn over rate. 

[dgorsman]

Its time to fish or cut bait.  You can do both at lower levels but at higher levels the demands, experience, and knowledge necessary dictate specializing in one or the other.  Attempting to do both will leave you burned out and unable to do either as well as somebody who does one of them exclusively.  Its unlikely your employer will pay you extra for doing both just the role in which you would earn more.  Anything beyond that is value-added.

The production side leads to more managerial duties with better promotional opportunities but can be under-stimulating for the technically minded (yay!  *another* meeting!).  The technical side generally gives higher pay earlier but promotional opportunities are limited, especially in a smaller company.

[Anonymous]

My former employer was doing the very same thing to me, except they kept promising the extra money that would never come, all while adding more tasks onto me. Again, they are my "former" employer and basically for that very reason.

I was named the CAD Admin and took over all those associated duties, on top of that they expected me to continue with my lead designer duties, work 65+ hrs a week (only being paid for 40) in the office along with working from home nights and weekends, being on call 24/7, if and when they even allowed me to take a vacation, I had to have cell service and high speed internet access.

Then it got to the point where the manager allowed people within his "click" to ignore cad drafting standards (company specific or even ANSI) and expected me and a few others to pick up the slack, I refused and threatened to leave if things were not fixed.

Oh and I almost forgot, they were also requesting pay cuts (I was already at a 25% cut and they wanted another 10-15%).

I gave them three seperate warnings and finally gave my notice and accepted a equal position at a local engineering firm for more than 30% increase. To this day they are still pissed off at me, claiming I left them in the lurch.

Leaving them was without a doubt, the best decision I've made in my 30 yrs in the field. The stress is gone, I get paid for the actual hours I work, I get weekends off and I can actually take a true vacation!

[Anonymous]

I hear what you are saying. Unless someone in the Cranberry Pennsylvania area knows of a good engineering firm that is looking for someone like me.... I am stuck, only jobs that come up on job sites like "Monster" or "Career Builder" are entry level jobs at best. Every job I apply for ends up with a conversation that is summed up as "your too experienced". The others that want me, don't want to pay at least what I make now. So my thoughts were to try and bolster my company now to pay up. I have just never been a "Give me" type of person, so I have decided to change my approach and start to pressure for what I need/want. Anyone out there have any Ideas or suggestions?

Thanks,

B

[pendean]

You have to get noticed in your firm, and acknowledged for the work you do: that's how you get more pay. Doing a lot of things that no manager or principal notices may get you job satisfaction but not much else.

Many inexperienced company owners assume computers and software just do things on their own: change that perception.

- Don't just sign up for training, show how you're using it. Out loud.

- Know of issues? announce them and provide solutions or at least ideas for solutions then offer to take them on publicly within the firm.

- Don't just 'fix things': tell them what's broken, how you are going to fix it, fix it, then tell them you fixed it and how you did it.

- Don't just wait to be handed a task: inquire about them or 'wishlists' and publicly work on solutions.

- Don't ignore the 'production' side of your work: you are more likely to get noticed more if you multi-task. No offense to I.T. centric careers but in most small and small-medium firms they are not as valued as 'producers' that multi-task.

- Take on a CAD production mentoring role, publicly within the firm: help out the inexperienced, become the go-to guy in the firm. Just make sure everyone above you knows all about it.

- Once everyone starts notcing your expanded workload and starts talking about it your value in the company becomes more apparent to those in charge.

- If you are expecting a short-term miracle, it's not going to happen: I'm talking about at least a year here, possibly years, for you to get absorbed into what you do for the company and for them above you to notice. You have to earn trust, and earn being noticed in a positive light: that's not a short-term ability at all for that.

[Anonymous]

Hi Dean,

Thanks for chiming in.... At the risk of sounding self centered. I will admit that everything that you have stated above fits me to a "T". I have been the go to guy for quite some time, I am the one everyone comes to for questions, I solve the majority of problems that arise within our group. I frankly make my boss look good..... I have operated in this manor since before my boss became my boss. I have had individuals from outside of our company (owners of other companies, clients etc.) speak to the President/CEO here of my abilities/professionalism willingness to go the extra mile etc.

When my former supervisor was re-positioned in the company his old position became vacant and needed filled. Who do you think they looked at to fill his position?....... Not me..... The reason I was given...... It would be too big of a hole to fill if they removed me from the floor to supervise the dept. So my supervisor is now someone I used to run circles around (and still do)....

Continuing on, I remained the way that I always was, that is how I got myself in this jamb. I solved problems, I come up with solutions, all that is getting me is "Bill can do it"..... Not more money. I don't care about the title, don't care about the supervisor position, after a pay freeze for the last 5yrs. I do care about the money. Thus the basis of my original question, what really is my job position/title, what should is expect to get paid for such work, is my situation the "normal" for an 18yr. Veteran?

Thanks for the input,

Bill

[pendean]

The "too valuable to move up" argument is one the leads me to think there is an invisible barrier to your promotion prospects, or they do appreciate what you do but don't see you as a prospect for promotion for whatever reason. Do you have an HR department to inquire about personal growth within the firm?

What did the person that got the job have that you do not? Start there and look deep and hard within and out, they had something and it gave them the leg up they needed and may be what you need to do/seek as well.

[Anonymous]

Lol.... it was not hard to see. He was my former boss's work friend, you know, the kind that used to sit in the boss's office for hours talking, laughing and carrying on. So when he got the call, everyone kind of knew. But anyway, that was then, he is the boss and I'm not opposed to it. I just want more money. I inquired with HR... their answer is "make a success of your current position and things like promotions will naturally come your way"....

I think some companies just have so much politics going on that good people are often overlooked.... I was just wondering what pay scale that everyone in the same position might expect to see....

[pendean]

Ah, the boss buddy: that's a tough one to overcome.

A few books I recommend reading in your spare time (in order of preference):

Secrets to Winning at Office Politics by Marie G. McIntyre

Who Gets Promoted, Who Doesn't, and Why by Donald Asher

The Office Survival Guide by Marilyn Puder-York

[Anonymous]

Yea.... I hate to say it. Those two are just on the same adolescent level. I was just more upset with the fact that I was just doing what I always did, which was the "nose to the grind stone".... Unfortunately when I looked up. It was already too late to adjust what was already set into play.....

Thanks for the book recommendations, I'll definitely take a look,

Thanks

Bill

[Anonymous]

Once upon a time being a company man was a matter of honor or a symbol of having a good work ethic. Most companies stopped having loyalty to their employees. The times they have changed with union busting in Wisconsin and elsewhere  and companies like Enron raping their employees futures for the benefit of the top echelon. Now being a company man is simple foolishness and we need to look out for ourselves.

[dgorsman]

Isn't that contradictory?  Complaining about lack of honor and loyalty then recommending the same selfish behavior?  Its like re-calculating your paystub to make sure every fractional cent is being paid then torrenting free movies off the internet.

While there are a few highly publicised ill dealings, the vast majority of employers don't fall anywhere near that level of "evil corporate empire".  Most do reward loyalty and hard work as they can.  Given the fragile economy demanding more money is borders on foolishness; even getting more benefits is dicey.

Yes, the execs look out for the bottom line rather than personal feelings but thats their job.  I am under no illusions about my job being a money issue to my employers; as soon as I start costing more money than I bring in thats it.  If the company loses money then nobody gets paid.

[Anonymous]

You mentioned in an earlier post you have looked into other places for employment but they do not want to pay your current wages.

That indicates you are fairly well paid for your area and what you are doing.

I would have more of a problem with being pushed aside for promotion when someone with less knowledge/experience was promoted.  That could push me into taking a position elsewhere for a bit less money in hopes of gaining a promotion there in a reasonably short period of time.

You may not get the higher pay at another company but you may be able to bargain for an extra week of vacation, or maybe you want to work 7-3 with 1/2hr for lunch instead of 8:30-5 with 1hr for lunch.  Sometimes things like that are just as important as the cash in pocket.

[Anonymous]

You could play a little poker with them if you like.  Have a well spoken friend call up and ask about references for you. 

That should put a spark under someone if they think you're looking for another job.  If they come ask, just tell them you put a few feelers out and some interest was sparked. 

That's the bluffing type of poker. 

If you're not comfortable with bluffing, play like you have a full house.  Go out and actually start hunting for a better job. 

If you find one of equal pay but, a lot less work that what you're currently doing, that would be a lot easier on you. 

If you're hourly, I say don't "give" them more than a half hour to 45 minutes tops of your "free" time a day.  If they need you longer, tell them you'll need approval for overtime. 

Get your ducks in a row and feel for what's out there before you make any moves though.  Check out the AUGIWorld magazine for an idea on what the current payscale is for your position, locale, and experience.  It might help you decide your own worth.