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What do you think about Trusted DWG?

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Message 1 of 152
jorgeledezma
2942 Views, 151 Replies

What do you think about Trusted DWG?

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=6740482
151 REPLIES 151
Message 141 of 152
jorgeledezma
in reply to: jorgeledezma

"I can see the possible costs of opening the format, and you may not agree, but I've asked you and Jorge and even Evan for some solid benefits to me for opening the format, despite the volumes of rhetoric none of you have offered a single one. I find that more telling than my conjecture. "

Because, at least in my personal opinion, when I think about benefits is about user benefits, no about ADSK benefits. Users will gain in interoperability to say one of them.
Message 142 of 152
jorgeledezma
in reply to: jorgeledezma

lol
Message 143 of 152
Evan Yares
in reply to: jorgeledezma

More accurately, it was a initially a shotgun wedding.

This is from a conversation held poolside at the COFES conference this year, and comes from a rather highly placed source (I'm paraphrasing): Intergraph found out about Bentley the hard way, by losing a major sale. Jim Meadlock called Keith Bentley, and suggested that either they were going to be best friends, or they were going to become serious enemies. Keith thought about this a bit, and decided that he'd rather be friends, and thereafter, Intergraph acquired 50% ownership in Bentley.

For many years at the beginning of the relationship, Intergraph drove the marketing and sales of Microstation -- so, to the extent that their sales to DOTs were initially succesful, I think it's likely to be because of Intergraph.

In any event, the practice of giving away software to generate future sales (if this is what happened in the case of DOTs) is well established in the CAD industry. Everyone's done it.
Message 144 of 152
rculp
in reply to: jorgeledezma

Yes, PDS is an Intergraph vertical for MSTA, until next year anyway.
But hey, that's just me.

Randall Culp
Civil-Structural Design Technician
(aka CADaver)
Message 145 of 152
rculp
in reply to: jorgeledezma

So that's ypur BEST answer to the half dozen questions posed so far??
But hey, that's just me.

Randall Culp
Civil-Structural Design Technician
(aka CADaver)
Message 146 of 152
rculp
in reply to: jorgeledezma

"" We don't. We are an owner operator and if you want to do work with us and you are smart you will use the software format we specify. ""

Yes there's still a few of you out there that bought into the Bentlry propaganda and now can't lose face.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ERSI has been compatible with both format for several years, at least according to their propaganda.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" See previous post ""

dodge

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" I hear this all the time but once you learn an interface and the short cuts to drive it they really are not that difficult. ""

No it's not difficult at all, just heavy-handed requiring much more interface from the user to accomplish the same tasks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" BTW, MicroStation is more expensive but it also does a ton more than AutoCAD. ""

Now that's funny. Go on, enlighten us with a few pounds of this "ton".
But hey, that's just me.

Randall Culp
Civil-Structural Design Technician
(aka CADaver)
Message 147 of 152
Anonymous
in reply to: jorgeledezma

No Propaganda was involved, just pain facts.

We are considering what our future direction will be and we will bench mark
both products with a committee of both our AutoCAD power users and Bentley
power users to see which product we will use going forward. I guess we will
know more about the winner then.

"much more interface from the user to accomplish the same tasks"
Again shows your lack of understating of MicroStation. You seem to know V7
but have a just a cursory knowledge of V8 and even less of XM. MS now has a
superior interface that is easier to use than ACAD. Most open minded users
will admit it. APS in Arizona just switched from AutoCAD to MicroStation
and even their steadfast ACAD users admitted the change has made them more
productive. No propaganda, it just came down to speed of doing the same
tasks and MS won hands down. But of course you will dismiss it like
everything else because you only listen to the propaganda that Autodesk is
shoveling.

No dodging at all, did you not read the previous email? Go back two and
try again because I gave a ton (well 14 things). I can give you more if you
want...

Better text placement tools
Superior dimension tools
Better handling of Digital Rights
Superior graphics
Superior snapping tools
Better reference handling
Superior use of saved views and Managed views

I like how you just skipped over my previous post and answered this one!

wrote in message news:5210481@discussion.autodesk.com...
"" We don't. We are an owner operator and if you want to do work with us and
you are smart you will use the software format we specify. ""

Yes there's still a few of you out there that bought into the Bentlry
propaganda and now can't lose face.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ERSI has been compatible with both format for several years, at least
according to their propaganda.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" See previous post ""

dodge

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" I hear this all the time but once you learn an interface and the short
cuts to drive it they really are not that difficult. ""

No it's not difficult at all, just heavy-handed requiring much more
interface from the user to accomplish the same tasks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" BTW, MicroStation is more expensive but it also does a ton more than
AutoCAD. ""

Now that's funny. Go on, enlighten us with a few pounds of this "ton".
Message 148 of 152
Anonymous
in reply to: jorgeledezma

Oh, and Autodesk was the biggest pimp of all because they choose to put no
security on their product at all. Everyone and their mother used it because
it was the only other option if you did not want to pay for a quality
product like MicroStation. They choose to overlook its limitations in favor
of free. It took 12 versions of ACAD to catch up to the first version of MS
and please don't go into the POC as a crutch again. It is a non-issue,
never had anyone in design ever complain about accuracy do to the integer
based format. Bottom line was MS was faster and better from the beginning.

wrote in message news:5210026@discussion.autodesk.com...
"" Ah, there is the rub. You are talking about Intergraph not Bentley. ""

Intergraph was marketing Bentley Software (Microstation) at the time. The
Bentley boys had gotten in bed with INtergraph in an effort to jump start
lackluster sales in the mid 80's. One of Intergraph's first moves was to
target DOT's, give out free seats and free training., get hooked, get 'em
selling the software to their subs. You know, like a crack dealer in a high
school. And it worked... very well ... MSTA still has a grip on the DOT
market 20 years later.
Message 149 of 152
Anonymous
in reply to: jorgeledezma

Cricket, Cricket...

Now this is a first, Randy can't come up with a lame response...

"Michael Kolster" wrote in message
news:5209280@discussion.autodesk.com...
Blah, Blah, Blah. No substance once so ever, just words.

1) Lets see, MS actually understands units like an inch vs. a meter and
requires no scaling or moving while working together. It allows the use of
survey foot and us foot in design and large state plane coordinates work
perfectly fine but AutoCAD errors off which Autodesk says is a operating
system issue, right.
2) CUI is an improvement sure but it is not close to MS storing the
interface in a centric DGNLIB and ACAD doesn't allow for the flexibility of
use on a project level with user level that can be managed from one central
location on the network
3) PDF support in 2007 is still not close to the PDF support of MS 2004
Edition
4) The use of color tables and integrated use of pantone colors are much
more open
5) Licensing support and management is way more superior. If my Bentley
license server dies all my users can work for up to 30 days. They allow us
to actually exceed my licenses and it is up to me to decided that I need to
stay legal and purchase additional ones. I can manage multiple sites and
see who and what is being used at any give time.
6) Bentley allows me to swap out my software package for another based on
their list value once a year so I am not stuck to using or not using a
package if my jobs or priority change
7) MS Design History that allows you to roll back to a previous state or
revision is like having an undo that never forgets
8) Task Navigation that allows a user to use tools based on a task and can
be managed for a central location
9) MS out of the box 3d rendering is way superior to ACAD even with 2007
finally adding support for things that MS did 10 years ago
10) Element transparency and dialog transparency
11) Google support from basic MS
12) Multiple views and multiple model spaces
13) Superior image speed and management
14) Accudraw precision drawing is so much quicker - Even AutoCAD recent
attempts don't come close

Do you want me to go on? You always say you know MS but you obviously don't
really know or you are so blinded by Autodesk propaganda that you fail to
see it. Bentley is so much more open and flexible that it is not even
close. Autodesk is so much more heavy handed. If they are so flexible why
won't they continue support for ACAD 2000i if I want to use it, Bentley will
let me stay on support with V5 if I wanted to. How about licensing I listed
above, heavy handed, what a joke.



wrote in message news:5208286@discussion.autodesk.com...
"" People don't buy MS, which is more expensive than ACAD, to do ACAD work
""

Very true, they keep MS because they're heavily invested in it, but to
survive they have to work in a DWG world. Neither of which is Autodesk's
concern.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" At least all Bentley products all talk to each seamlessly ""

..yeah that's a good one...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" Nobody wants it huh? ""

Nope, not the open format of DGN. A few use it for the miniscule portion of
the market that would like a level of interoperability between DWG and DGN,
but even that was accomplishable prior to the opening of the DGN format.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" Our contractors seem to be using it more and more... ""

OpenDGN?? I've asked before, Name two that use OpenDGN.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" but MicroStation is way more productive of a product. ""

Oh, now that's just silly, it's not even close. There is a reason that DWG
became the industry standard. The inherent flexibility of AutoCAD that
allows it to be easily tailored to the individual needs and productivity of
the users puts it lightyears ahead. MSTA customization features are even
more heavy-handed than the program.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" Also, you always talk about how heavy handed Bentley
is ""

It is. It requires a much more intensive interface with the user to
accomplish the same tasks, though V8 is a much better tool than past
versions.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" Who is the heavy handed one? ""

Microstation. and it's more expensive to boot.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Message 150 of 152
Anonymous
in reply to: jorgeledezma

I love it, Randy would rather not answer than eat crow.

"Michael Kolster" wrote in message
news:5210820@discussion.autodesk.com...
No Propaganda was involved, just pain facts.

We are considering what our future direction will be and we will bench mark
both products with a committee of both our AutoCAD power users and Bentley
power users to see which product we will use going forward. I guess we will
know more about the winner then.

"much more interface from the user to accomplish the same tasks"
Again shows your lack of understating of MicroStation. You seem to know V7
but have a just a cursory knowledge of V8 and even less of XM. MS now has a
superior interface that is easier to use than ACAD. Most open minded users
will admit it. APS in Arizona just switched from AutoCAD to MicroStation
and even their steadfast ACAD users admitted the change has made them more
productive. No propaganda, it just came down to speed of doing the same
tasks and MS won hands down. But of course you will dismiss it like
everything else because you only listen to the propaganda that Autodesk is
shoveling.

No dodging at all, did you not read the previous email? Go back two and
try again because I gave a ton (well 14 things). I can give you more if you
want...

Better text placement tools
Superior dimension tools
Better handling of Digital Rights
Superior graphics
Superior snapping tools
Better reference handling
Superior use of saved views and Managed views

I like how you just skipped over my previous post and answered this one!

wrote in message news:5210481@discussion.autodesk.com...
"" We don't. We are an owner operator and if you want to do work with us and
you are smart you will use the software format we specify. ""

Yes there's still a few of you out there that bought into the Bentlry
propaganda and now can't lose face.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ERSI has been compatible with both format for several years, at least
according to their propaganda.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" See previous post ""

dodge

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" I hear this all the time but once you learn an interface and the short
cuts to drive it they really are not that difficult. ""

No it's not difficult at all, just heavy-handed requiring much more
interface from the user to accomplish the same tasks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" BTW, MicroStation is more expensive but it also does a ton more than
AutoCAD. ""

Now that's funny. Go on, enlighten us with a few pounds of this "ton".
Message 151 of 152
varadan01
in reply to: jorgeledezma

I have doubt in TrustedDwg File Formate. How to find the dwg  whether it trusted file or not before opening by 
acDocManager->appContextNewDocument(strDwtPath);
i wanna skip such file before plotting execute. plz reply asap.

 

With Regards,
GVaradarajan
Message 152 of 152
pendean
in reply to: varadan01

Check the box on that pop-up you posted... .

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