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TJRiley
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎06-12-2006
Message 61 of 152 (131 Views)

Re: What do you think about Trusted DWG?

06-12-2006 03:29 PM in reply to: JorgeLedezma
DGN V8 Spec: Message was edited by: Discussion Admin
*David Allen
Message 62 of 152 (131 Views)

Re: What do you think about Trusted DWG?

06-12-2006 03:50 PM in reply to: JorgeLedezma
Personally I'd rather use the dwg true convert since its made by autodesk
and its a batch converter.
I no longer recommend the dwggateway because of this

--
Dave

wrote in message news:5201885@discussion.autodesk.com...
Can you read? I just did! Look above you boy. DWGgateway!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

With DWGgateway, I can open *ANY* version of AutoCAD from V1.4 to 2006.
(2007 soon, I'm sure) And save it to WHATEVER VERSION I am working in. In
other words, I have DWGgateway installed on R14 and 2002.

So if I am in R14 and open a 2006 dwg with DWGgateway, it will save it as
R14. And consequently, if I'm in 2002 and open a 2006 dwg with DWGgateway,
it will save it as 2002. Or I can open an R9 and save it as a 2002.

AutoCAD TrueView (or whatever it's called *CAN'T* even do that)!
Distinguished Contributor
rculp
Posts: 1,235
Registered: ‎03-22-2006
Message 63 of 152 (131 Views)

Re: What do you think about Trusted DWG?

06-12-2006 04:27 PM in reply to: JorgeLedezma
"" As an end user I feel I should be able to accurately acquire my data with or without the use of an Autodesk product. ""

You are more than welcome to do so... UNTIL you encapsulate that data in a proprietary format by YOUR choice. It has been known for over 2 decades that the format is proprietary. If you have chosen to encapsulate your data in that format, you've done so, aware of the fact that AutoDESK software will be required to retrieve that data electronically. However, you are more than free to plot the data out and have free access to the hard copy at your discretion.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" If I want to access the data via an Autodesk product, a Bentley product or a tool of my own creation I should be able to as it is my property. ""

Why? Why should AutoDESK give up it's work product because you chosen to encapsulate your data in that format KNOWING that AutoDESK software would be REQUIRED to retrieve that data. If you want the data retrievable in some other format, you need to encapsulate that data in some other format.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" Autodesk should take a lesson from Adobe ""

Why should they? What advantage would AutoDESK receive by giving up it's work product? Answer=none, it would be a liability to future sales of their product, and as such would be a very poor business decision.

Adobe may have made out doing so, but considering the massive differences in the products and their markets, its apples and pomegranates.
Distinguished Contributor
rculp
Posts: 1,235
Registered: ‎03-22-2006
Message 64 of 152 (131 Views)

Re: What do you think about Trusted DWG?

06-12-2006 04:36 PM in reply to: JorgeLedezma
MSTA is an old reference to MIcrostation that dates back to the 80's when the command prompt was "uSta". Posters on their original user forum short-handed the moniker to "mSta" and I've stuck with that for several years.
*Brian Allen
Message 65 of 152 (131 Views)

Re: What do you think about Trusted DWG?

06-12-2006 04:56 PM in reply to: JorgeLedezma
Thus my disclaimer on knowledge of thier product.

On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 22:29:31 +0000, TJRiley <> wrote:

>DGN V8 Spec:
*James Maeding
Message 66 of 152 (131 Views)

Re: What do you think about Trusted DWG?

06-12-2006 05:03 PM in reply to: JorgeLedezma
What a revealing statement to say that "A2K7 IS 3D". Like the 07 release just brought acad from manual thruster
velocity to "ludicrous speed".

Do you room with an Adesk salesman Jorge? Does he whisper that in the night and you wake up with the revelation that
now Acad has Z coordinates?

I'm not knocking the new 3d features, but its not like it deserves some movie poster on my wall with a flat 2d wireframe
balooning into some 3d hologram.

Randy Culp <>
|>"" AutoCAD 2K7 IS 3D, previous 3D was just a funny thing. ""
|>
|>ahhh, now I understand. You don't know a thing about AutoCAD. I've been doing production 3D AutoCAD for 15 years. Here we went exclusively 3D about 5 years ago with R14. Granted R2K7 will make it easier, but the say that prior releases were "just a funny thing" belies your true ignorance of the software.
|>
|>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|>
|>"" because the new added features. It will be a pain translate it to previous AutoCAD releases and desktops, not to mention to the competition formats. ""
|>
|>Happens with every release, some more so than others. But to put a finer point on it here. Compatibility with earlier releases is only a concern for those who do not (for whatever reason) keep up with the latest software. Compatibility with "other" programs is no concern at all. NONE of this has anything at all to do with Trusted DWG, save that we can now get a warning that the file is not a native AutoDESK DWG.
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
*James Maeding
Message 67 of 152 (131 Views)

Re: What do you think about Trusted DWG?

06-12-2006 05:19 PM in reply to: JorgeLedezma
completely agree.
If you sell the diamonds and the gold, might as well keep the mining operations a secret too.
You must admit that Adesk does a really good job of mutating their product enough to keep the market from catching up.
The thing I don't like is they market as if we don't see what is going on. Like yearly releases really help us?
The crazy thing is now we are willing to pay yearly, and get less product, in return for longer support of what we do
use.
It seems like it has to end somewhere though. I think we are closer than adesk thinks. All the whistles they are doing
are not that big a deal, and their own release cycle is causing all of us to get used to converting files.
Pretty soon, we will say "don't worry about the custom objects, you need to explode them anyway to work with us".

Then the clones will invade, and we will have Intellicad University and Autodesk University fighting for hotel space in
Vegas, with classes scheduled at exactly the same times so we can't do both.

The other ironic thing is that we do need yearly releases from the clones right now, to catch up with acad. Its acad
that we need to sit still. I sound like my kids, where they play hide and seek and call your name to lure you into
finding them....The adesk guys must be laughing, saying "no kidding, we will never let them catch up".

Randy Culp <>
|>Why should AutoDESK open up their proprietary format? Show of hands here, how many are willing to give away their work product fee of charge?? The ODA just wants something for free from AutoDESK so they can avoid paying AutoDESK for their program. Doesn't sound very fair (or likely) to me. Quick, what would it benefit AutoDESK to give away their work product to the ODA??
|>
|>I blame Bentley not for poor translations, but for the outright prevarications they commit in selling their product. I've read their propaganda and heard what they've told our suppliers. They have sold their software under a claim of complete translation compatibility seamless between formats, and that is just a load of bull pucky.
|>
|>I don't care a whit whether Bentley and the ODA can produce a 100% translation. They just need to quit telling people they can. They apparently had difficulty competing on their own nickle, and now wish AutoDESK to freely give them the tools by which they can better compete with AutoDESK.
|>
|>Does that sound remotely intelligent to you?? Would you freely give your work product to your competition so that they could better compete with you?? Judging from the number of threads I've seen here and other forums asking about locking drawing files so that people couldn't boost blocks and details, I'd say very few users would think it a good idea.
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
Distinguished Contributor
JorgeLedezma
Posts: 690
Registered: ‎06-12-2004
Message 68 of 152 (131 Views)

Re: What do you think about Trusted DWG?

06-12-2006 05:50 PM in reply to: JorgeLedezma
"If I want to access the data via an Autodesk product, a Bentley product or a tool of my own creation I should be able to as it is my property."


Excelent! I am agree 100%
*Don Reichle
Message 69 of 152 (131 Views)

Re: What do you think about Trusted DWG?

06-12-2006 05:57 PM in reply to: JorgeLedezma
snip>with a flat 2d wireframe balooning into some 3d hologram.
Now you've reminded me of Back to the Future - Part II.

Recall Marty's walk past the cinema?
:-o

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
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"James Maeding" wrote in message
news:5203726@discussion.autodesk.com...
What a revealing statement to say that "A2K7 IS 3D". Like the 07 release
just brought acad from manual thruster
velocity to "ludicrous speed".

Do you room with an Adesk salesman Jorge? Does he whisper that in the night
and you wake up with the revelation that
now Acad has Z coordinates?

I'm not knocking the new 3d features, but its not like it deserves some
movie poster on my wall with a flat 2d wireframe
balooning into some 3d hologram.

Randy Culp <>
|>"" AutoCAD 2K7 IS 3D, previous 3D was just a funny thing. ""
|>
|>ahhh, now I understand. You don't know a thing about AutoCAD. I've been
doing production 3D AutoCAD for 15 years. Here we went exclusively 3D about
5 years ago with R14. Granted R2K7 will make it easier, but the say that
prior releases were "just a funny thing" belies your true ignorance of the
software.
|>
|>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|>
|>"" because the new added features. It will be a pain translate it to
previous AutoCAD releases and desktops, not to mention to the competition
formats. ""
|>
|>Happens with every release, some more so than others. But to put a finer
point on it here. Compatibility with earlier releases is only a concern for
those who do not (for whatever reason) keep up with the latest software.
Compatibility with "other" programs is no concern at all. NONE of this has
anything at all to do with Trusted DWG, save that we can now get a warning
that the file is not a native AutoDESK DWG.
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
Distinguished Contributor
JorgeLedezma
Posts: 690
Registered: ‎06-12-2004
Message 70 of 152 (131 Views)

Re: What do you think about Trusted DWG?

06-12-2006 06:33 PM in reply to: JorgeLedezma
You mean "3D" to join several pieces of wire? oh! I have doing that a lot of time ago.

-Your 3D means:

1. draw a rectangle
2. extrude it
3. get a fixed dimensions volume which can't be edited at all?

-Your 3D means poor texture, lights and render? oh I see.

My 3D is like the 2K7 "presspull" tool, the new 3D environment, the 3D grips, the render engine and the improved textures. Although ADSK forget the most important thing in a 3D application: an easy and multidirectional 3D cursor.

The fact that AutoCAD has had the Z coordinate doesn't mean 3D capabilities, because you have to built everything by yourself, using wires through several steps to have at the end a primitive volume, which after that can't be edited! Not to mention the horrible task has been to get projections or views in previous releases. If you want nice 3D you have to buy a desktop or "develop" 1500 macros.

You have to see how 3DS or Maya work to clearly distinct what is 3D and what is 2D with a Z coordinate.
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