CAD Managers

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*James Maeding
Message 91 of 152 (118 Views)

Re: What do you think about Trusted DWG?

06-13-2006 10:43 AM in reply to: JorgeLedezma
bahh, haahhhh, hahhh, that is the funniest thing I have seen yet!

Let me stop laughing so I can type.
So you don't do production, you don't customize, you just have vision.
Was the idea of uninstalling and reinstalling for any acad problem part of your vision?
Was the idea of using "current acad technologies" instead of menus part of your vision?

Your users must really appreciate your vision. All my users regularly stop by my desk and compliment me on my vision. I
say, "thanks, its the funner part of my job because I don't have to get bogged down in actually helping you.."

I'm sure the other cad managers out there got a kick out of your post. You see, they do not get the respect they
deserve because their higher ups think they all just waste time. So thanks for reinforcing that idea.


JorgeLedezma <>
|>James I believe in the tripod metaphor for the AutoCAD way to work.
|>
|>1 pod are the end users
|>1 pod is the Cad manager
|>1 pod is the developer.
|>
|>You are trying to take me to your field where you say you are: developer field. Why are you continuing posting in the Cad manager forum, why don't you post in the customizing discussion groups where sure you find someone that can match your very deep lisp knowledge. James, I am more Cad manager oriented.
|>
|>A Cad manager don't need to be a lisp expert to have vision. So begin to write the number 1501.
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
Distinguished Contributor
rculp
Posts: 1,235
Registered: ‎03-22-2006
Message 92 of 152 (118 Views)

Re: What do you think about Trusted DWG?

06-13-2006 11:46 AM in reply to: JorgeLedezma
"" I am more Cad manager oriented. ""

How can you manage something if you haven't a clue how it works to start with or what it takes to customize and run?? That's like saying I don't do civil/structural design I just manage them.

You are almost right with your silly little tripod concept, except a tripod is sedentary, goes no where, just sits there. A real company has a two legged walking/running concept where one leg is the end user, the other is the development team, but driving the mechanism is management. The fuel (money software, etc.) the working relationship between each leg (communication) and the skill of the pilot (the manager) determine the speed at which it runs.
Distinguished Contributor
rculp
Posts: 1,235
Registered: ‎03-22-2006
Message 93 of 152 (118 Views)

Re: What do you think about Trusted DWG?

06-13-2006 11:49 AM in reply to: JorgeLedezma
"" The fact of the matter is they opened their format, ""

Only to avoid appearing duplicitous. Without the ability to open DWG files, Bentley would have folded up their tents long ago. And it cost them NOTHING to open the DGN format, nobody wants it.
Distinguished Contributor
rculp
Posts: 1,235
Registered: ‎03-22-2006
Message 94 of 152 (118 Views)

Re: What do you think about Trusted DWG?

06-13-2006 11:58 AM in reply to: JorgeLedezma
"" I work in an industry where dwg is pretty much the industry standard. ""

Then you need to get happy with the proprietary control of that format by AutoDESK.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" Can I programmatically calculate the area of a rectangle or extract BOM text from a hardcopy? I submit not.""

Can you do it with the use of an AutoDESK product? I submit not as accurately. So there you are. You've chosen to embed your data in a format that is controlled by AutoDESK. You need to get happy with that choice or choose differently.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" Please tell me what market share Autodesk will lose by releasing the specifications to the dwg format? Do you honestly think that if they were to release the specifications that a solid chunk of their user base would jump ship to another CAD package? ""

Based on the number of postings here about INtellicad, I'd say yes a chunk of their users would jump. Based on the number of posters here that for some reason disdain big business, I'd say yes. Based on the number of posters that refuse to use any microsoft product in favor of poorer quality open source programs I'd say yes. Based on the number of posters wanting cheap software and going to LT then complaining it won't do lisp, I'd say yes.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" Last time I checked pdf and dwg were both file formats for
storing information.""

Well there you go then, save your data as a pdf and all is golden right? no need for open source DWG.
*Tim Riley
Message 95 of 152 (118 Views)

Re: What do you think about Trusted DWG?

06-13-2006 12:20 PM in reply to: JorgeLedezma
Correction, YOU don't want it. I'd be willing to wager that there are quite
a few corporations out there taking advantage of the open DGN format. If I
were a user of the DGN file format I'd be ecstatic knowing that I can access
my data without having to use a Bentley product. They possibilities are
endless with an open format, the most important I see is the ability to run
batch processes on groups of drawings without the overhead of COM, heck one
wouldn't even need to do it on windows.

You can keep going on and on about Bentley closing their doors if it weren't
for the ability to open DWG files, however that has no relevance in this
conversation. They decoded the DWG file format, it has nothing to do with
Autodesk releasing the specifications for DWG. It's already done, the only
difference it would make now is the end user would be given a
99.999999999999% guarantee that the drawings would be interoperable between
all CAD software. As an end user I can see why you wouldn't want anything
like that.
--
Regards,
Tim
http://tjriley.infogami.com/pyacaddotnet


wrote in message news:5204756@discussion.autodesk.com...
"" The fact of the matter is they opened their format, ""

Only to avoid appearing duplicitous. Without the ability to open DWG files,
Bentley would have folded up their tents long ago. And it cost them NOTHING
to open the DGN format, nobody wants it.
*Tim Riley
Message 96 of 152 (118 Views)

Re: What do you think about Trusted DWG?

06-13-2006 12:55 PM in reply to: JorgeLedezma
As all but one comment in your post actually supplied a valid argument and
not just "deal with it" nonsense I'll focus on that one.

As I mentioned in a previous post many companies are releasing the
specifications to their file format, arguably the most important one is
Microsoft's decision to submit the Office 12 XML format to the ECMA as a
standard[1]. If the ECMA accepts this as a standard then competing products
such as OpenOffice will be able to open and save Microsoft documents with
100% accuracy, formatting and all. As many know this was the major downside
to OpenOffice as a doc from Word didn't render the same in Writer and vice
versa.

With that being said why isn't Microsoft worried about the number of users
switching to OpenOffice? Because they know that even though they might lose
a few customers the majority will stick with Office as it's a superior
product. I've used both products and although I like OpenOffice it really
doesn't come close to Office. This holds true with AutoCAD as well. There
are quite a few alternatives out there but not are really as good of a
product as AutoCAD.

[1] http://www.microsoft.com/office/xml/ecmaletter.mspx

--
Regards,
Tim
http://tjriley.infogami.com/pyacaddotnet


wrote in message news:5204761@discussion.autodesk.com...
"" I work in an industry where dwg is pretty much the industry standard. ""

Then you need to get happy with the proprietary control of that format by
AutoDESK.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" Can I programmatically calculate the area of a rectangle or extract BOM
text from a hardcopy? I submit not.""

Can you do it with the use of an AutoDESK product? I submit not as
accurately. So there you are. You've chosen to embed your data in a format
that is controlled by AutoDESK. You need to get happy with that choice or
choose differently.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" Please tell me what market share Autodesk will lose by releasing the
specifications to the dwg format? Do you honestly think that if they were to
release the specifications that a solid chunk of their user base would jump
ship to another CAD package? ""

Based on the number of postings here about INtellicad, I'd say yes a chunk
of their users would jump. Based on the number of posters here that for
some reason disdain big business, I'd say yes. Based on the number of
posters that refuse to use any microsoft product in favor of poorer quality
open source programs I'd say yes. Based on the number of posters wanting
cheap software and going to LT then complaining it won't do lisp, I'd say
yes.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" Last time I checked pdf and dwg were both file formats for
storing information.""

Well there you go then, save your data as a pdf and all is golden right? no
need for open source DWG.
Distinguished Contributor
rculp
Posts: 1,235
Registered: ‎03-22-2006
Message 97 of 152 (118 Views)

Re: What do you think about Trusted DWG?

06-13-2006 02:01 PM in reply to: JorgeLedezma
"Deal with it is a valid response to the whine that "they won't play with me". Which is al this boils down to.

Now to the only point for which you had a response. MS released their specs, good for them. It profits them nothing to do so, so I'm curious as to the reason for the move. But again it apples and pomegranates. The comparative simplicity of the MS formats as compare to the DWG format makes it a less than useful comparison. And as you've said Open Office just doesn't compete with the "real" thing. That, however, does not keep the cheap and cheesy from using OpenOffice. We got a spreadsheet just last month that sent the cell formatting screwy, our goofuss client worked on the file at home on OpenOffice to add 10 minutes worth of data that took us an hour to straighten out. That will NOT improve with the release of the source, cheap and cheesy will remain cheap and cheesy.

But that aside, there is NO benefit to Autodesk that would lead them to open the source. NO benefit at all, and possible detriment to their profit margin. The only possible result is a drain on their market base. Except of course for those wishing to profit from some one else's work product.
Distinguished Contributor
rculp
Posts: 1,235
Registered: ‎03-22-2006
Message 98 of 152 (118 Views)

Re: What do you think about Trusted DWG?

06-13-2006 02:10 PM in reply to: JorgeLedezma
Yeah MSTA is the engine for PDS (piece of c#@p if there ever was one). Yes it has the lions share of that niche market, which is less than a third the number of AuCAD seats in the market. In fact PDS is such a wondeful product that they are selving it at the end of next year. They may be getting close with SmartPLant.

But all that aside, no one cares about translating into DGN, nobody wants to. The only foks that want DGN already have MSTA on board, what they want is to be able to open and edit DWG in MSTA truly seamlessly, and that is something that won't benefit AutoDESK a dime's worth.
Distinguished Contributor
rculp
Posts: 1,235
Registered: ‎03-22-2006
Message 99 of 152 (118 Views)

Re: What do you think about Trusted DWG?

06-13-2006 02:15 PM in reply to: JorgeLedezma
"" I don't do any plant design and don't know about autodesk's efforts in the area. ""

Just to be very clear here "plant design" is one of those terms coined by Bentley that means absolutly nothing. I was doing plant design long before Bentley or AutoDESK existed as CAD platforms, and as my little PNG file attached earlier indicates, I've been using AutoCAD to do Plant Design for a number of years. So when you here that Bentley is the market leader in plant design... its a load of hooey.
*Don Reichle
Message 100 of 152 (118 Views)

Re: What do you think about Trusted DWG?

06-13-2006 02:33 PM in reply to: JorgeLedezma
Then you should show us some proof of your abilties to "manage" - not just
argue your point until we are all blue in the face.

Or whichever other metaphor might cover the fingertips.

I - for one - am pleased we don't perform our tasks in the same firm.

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
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wrote in message news:5204602@discussion.autodesk.com...
James I believe in the tripod metaphor for the AutoCAD way to work.

1 leg are the end users
1 leg is the Cad manager
1 leg is the developer.

You are trying to take me to your field where you say you are: developer
field. Why are you continuing posting in the Cad manager forum, why don't
you post in the customizing discussion groups where sure you find someone
that can match your very deep lisp knowledge. James, I am more Cad manager
oriented.
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