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What do you think about Trusted DWG?

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Message 1 of 152
jorgeledezma
2935 Views, 151 Replies

What do you think about Trusted DWG?

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=6740482
151 REPLIES 151
Message 41 of 152
jorgeledezma
in reply to: jorgeledezma

Matt, do you know who pay for this cost?
Message 42 of 152
jorgeledezma
in reply to: jorgeledezma

I have seen the translation of an ADT file to MSTA v8 is seamless, we get layers, colors, linetypes and so on. Of course some properties cant be translated because they are different platforms with different metaphors. 100% translation will never happened.

If you save to dwg in MSTA, and back open with ADT some errors maybe appears, but it is a logical thing, isn't it?

What I see weird here is why ADSK created that thing named Trusted DWG, including the trademark, at the same time AutoCAD is jumping to 3D environment.
Message 43 of 152
Anonymous
in reply to: jorgeledezma

While I did mention this in my earlier post I might say that the quality of
the results may rest more with the people doing the translation than with
the software. I'm not sure because I haven't touched MSTA in years. But
sometimes we do get acceptable translations from those using MSTA. So I
think it may be possible for the software to output something decent if
effort is put in to it. But as you say. It's NOT seamless.

I use LDT with Map so I can save to and import DGN files. The quality of the
translation depends on how much time is spend customizing the mapimport.ini,
mapexport.ini files and the seed DGN file. All of which are tedious to edit
and you must be prepared to edit lines such as:

RUNTIME_MACROS=_SEED,"C:\Program Files\Common Files\Autodesk
Shared\GIS\ImportExport\4.0\design\seed3d_ft.dgn".

I am not sure of the format that MSTA users have to deal with. But if it is
similar to this I can understand why so many translations are lousy. I do
know that I have much less problems with errors if I do the translation
myself. I've literally picked up thousands of errors in files exported from
MSTA.

Allen


wrote in message news:5201937@discussion.autodesk.com...
"" I use and will continue to use DWGgateway without so much as ONE problem.
And I have converted literally 100's of files. ""

As long as you're translating from one AutoCAD version to another there
shouldn't be much trouble, but going from MSTA to AutoCAD is not as seamless
as the Bentley boys would have you think. We had a vendor taken off our
suppliers list because he was continually sending in crud translated from MS
to AutoCAD that were nothing BUT trouble.
Message 44 of 152
Anonymous
in reply to: jorgeledezma

On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:19:00 +0000, JorgeLedezma <> wrote:

>Matt, do you know who pay for this cost?

For "fixing" consultants' drawings to our standards?

Depends.

Matt
mstachoni@comcast.net
mstachoni@bhhtait.com
Message 45 of 152
Anonymous
in reply to: jorgeledezma

Hi Don,

I did mention in a post to this thread this morning that it may have more
to do with the operator than the software. I'm sure that you know from
LDT/Map that the quality of the translation rests on how much time you're
willing to spend on setting everything up.

The reason I thing the Trusted DWG warning may be a good thing is Civil 3D.
With EVERYTHING kept in the drawing files I can see disaster. If your file
is damaged by inserting something that isn't compatible you may loose quite
a lot. Now (of course) we "always" have backups of all OUR drawings. But how
many post have you seen where someone is trying to recover the only version
of a file. One mistake and a whole project could be lost. I know that is in
an extreme case but it's scary none the less.

Allen

"Don Reichle" wrote in message
news:5202030@discussion.autodesk.com...
It may be likely that my friend Allen had issues with DGN files that were
converted to DWGs, after they had already been "graced" with issues from MS?

Not ever having utilized MS, I of course may be all wet with my guess re.
the "causes" of his troubles with the DWG files he mentioned.

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
----------------------------------------------------------
LDT/CD-2K4
AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual 2.01GHz
XPPro 32bit SP2
2GB RAM
Dual WD800JD Hard Drives - 149GB Nvidia Stripe
Nvidia Quadro FX 1300 128MB
Dual ViewSonic 19-inch VA902b monitors


"Michael Kolster" wrote in message
news:5201953@discussion.autodesk.com...
I find the same thing here. We run both ACAD and MS and I use MS to open
and fix files that ACAD Audit/Restore can't fix. The file was in only used
in ACAD until then so what is so trusty about that?

Speaking of MS, if you really know how to use and configure MicroStation you
really don't have any problems. The only time I see issues with it is when
users who think they know what they are doing and say they understand MS and
then have issues with it. I set it up and use it and it works fine so is it
the software or user error?

"Don Reichle" wrote in message
news:5201893@discussion.autodesk.com...
Well I was just talking about this with other staff in the office a few
minutes ago, and our common experience was to use IntelliCAD to clean up DWG
files that had become corrupted beyond Audit/Restore process while having
been retained inside AutoCAD previously.

So that fairly well flies in the face of the post we were lead to from that
link, hmmmm?

The procedure I referred to above was c-o-n-s-i-d-e-r-a-b-l-y faster than
having to start all over from an empty dwg file, I'm sure even the Deskers
would agree.

And that would need to include the "checking" involved to make sure that all
the necessary changes had been addressed.

Which made me think of any Agency changes required - based upon the
timeframe of this unfortunate happenstance of corruption.

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
----------------------------------------------------------
LDT/CD-2K4
AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual 2.01GHz
XPPro 32bit SP2
2GB RAM
Dual WD800JD Hard Drives - 149GB Nvidia Stripe
Nvidia Quadro FX 1300 128MB
Dual ViewSonic 19-inch VA902b monitors


wrote in message news:5201036@discussion.autodesk.com...
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=6740482
Message 46 of 152
jorgeledezma
in reply to: jorgeledezma

yes, for that. I think it is a platform associate cost.
Message 47 of 152
rculp
in reply to: jorgeledezma

"" I do know that I have much less problems with errors if I do the translation myself. I've literally picked up thousands of errors in files exported from MSTA. ""

Same here, until I got out of the MSAT translation business.
But hey, that's just me.

Randall Culp
Civil-Structural Design Technician
(aka CADaver)
Message 48 of 152
rculp
in reply to: jorgeledezma

V8 is a much better tool for DWG translation than any of the other MSTA releases, but it is still not seamless to go from MSTA to AutoCAD.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" 100% translation will never happened.""

I agree, tell it to the Bentley propaganda team. I've had an IT guy from a subcontractor swear he had been given a guarantee by Bentley that it was a 100% translationm error-free. When I asked for the documentation he balked and said that's what his bentley Dealer/support said.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" some errors maybe appears, but it is a logical thing, isn't it? ""

Only if you're dealing with a translation. We've gotton out of the MSTA translation repair business. If you're going to work with us, you'll give a a 100% compatible autocad DWG to our specifications or you won't get paid.

Oddly we had 2 Microstation only suppliers that figured it would be easier to buy several seats of AutoCAD to make sure the translations were sound. They discovered it was quicker and easier for them to just do it in AutoCAD outright and skip the translation step. Now the only MSTA they do is for a local client that is married to MSTA.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" What I see weird here is why ADSK created that thing named Trusted DWG, including the trademark, at the same time AutoCAD is jumping to 3D environment. ""

It's not a "new thing" it's just a notification that the file was not created using an autodesk product.

What does that have to do with 3D?

What do you mean by "at the same time AutoCAD is jumping to 3D environment"?? They have been 3D for well over a decade. They have made it easier with R2K7.
But hey, that's just me.

Randall Culp
Civil-Structural Design Technician
(aka CADaver)
Message 49 of 152
Anonymous
in reply to: jorgeledezma

If Autodesk would open their file format then a tool like this wouldn't be
necessary as 100% conversions would be possible. It's funny to see people
blame Bentley and inadvertently the Open Drawing Alliance for not being able
to 100% recreate an undocumented file format.

If anyone wants to complain about this issue direct it to Autodesk
executives regarding the opening of the dwg format.

--
Regards,
Tim
http://tjriley.infogami.com/pyacaddotnet


wrote in message news:5201036@discussion.autodesk.com...
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=6740482
Message 50 of 152
jorgeledezma
in reply to: jorgeledezma

AutoCAD 2K7 IS 3D, previous 3D was just a funny thing.

The 2K7 format make the user more dependable to the application, because the new added features. It will be a pain translate it to previous AutoCAD releases and desktops, not to mention to the competition formats.

If we continue with the idea to use the not standard dwg for interchange the gap will be more critical.
Message 51 of 152
Anonymous
in reply to: jorgeledezma

I agree with your further explanation Allen.

Extremely "scary"!

And I haven't had the necessary time to do my usual "sampling" of ALL the
posts in this particular thread at this point in time.

W-o-r-k beckons my attention, I know that's hard to believe. 😉

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
----------------------------------------------------------
LDT/CD-2K4
AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual 2.01GHz
XPPro 32bit SP2
2GB RAM
Dual WD800JD Hard Drives - 149GB Nvidia Stripe
Nvidia Quadro FX 1300 128MB
Dual ViewSonic 19-inch VA902b monitors


"Allen Jessup" wrote in message
news:5202825@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hi Don,

I did mention in a post to this thread this morning that it may have more
to do with the operator than the software. I'm sure that you know from
LDT/Map that the quality of the translation rests on how much time you're
willing to spend on setting everything up.

The reason I thing the Trusted DWG warning may be a good thing is Civil 3D.
With EVERYTHING kept in the drawing files I can see disaster. If your file
is damaged by inserting something that isn't compatible you may loose quite
a lot. Now (of course) we "always" have backups of all OUR drawings. But how
many post have you seen where someone is trying to recover the only version
of a file. One mistake and a whole project could be lost. I know that is in
an extreme case but it's scary none the less.

Allen

"Don Reichle" wrote in message
news:5202030@discussion.autodesk.com...
It may be likely that my friend Allen had issues with DGN files that were
converted to DWGs, after they had already been "graced" with issues from MS?

Not ever having utilized MS, I of course may be all wet with my guess re.
the "causes" of his troubles with the DWG files he mentioned.

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
----------------------------------------------------------
LDT/CD-2K4
AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual 2.01GHz
XPPro 32bit SP2
2GB RAM
Dual WD800JD Hard Drives - 149GB Nvidia Stripe
Nvidia Quadro FX 1300 128MB
Dual ViewSonic 19-inch VA902b monitors


"Michael Kolster" wrote in message
news:5201953@discussion.autodesk.com...
I find the same thing here. We run both ACAD and MS and I use MS to open
and fix files that ACAD Audit/Restore can't fix. The file was in only used
in ACAD until then so what is so trusty about that?

Speaking of MS, if you really know how to use and configure MicroStation you
really don't have any problems. The only time I see issues with it is when
users who think they know what they are doing and say they understand MS and
then have issues with it. I set it up and use it and it works fine so is it
the software or user error?

"Don Reichle" wrote in message
news:5201893@discussion.autodesk.com...
Well I was just talking about this with other staff in the office a few
minutes ago, and our common experience was to use IntelliCAD to clean up DWG
files that had become corrupted beyond Audit/Restore process while having
been retained inside AutoCAD previously.

So that fairly well flies in the face of the post we were lead to from that
link, hmmmm?

The procedure I referred to above was c-o-n-s-i-d-e-r-a-b-l-y faster than
having to start all over from an empty dwg file, I'm sure even the Deskers
would agree.

And that would need to include the "checking" involved to make sure that all
the necessary changes had been addressed.

Which made me think of any Agency changes required - based upon the
timeframe of this unfortunate happenstance of corruption.

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
----------------------------------------------------------
LDT/CD-2K4
AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual 2.01GHz
XPPro 32bit SP2
2GB RAM
Dual WD800JD Hard Drives - 149GB Nvidia Stripe
Nvidia Quadro FX 1300 128MB
Dual ViewSonic 19-inch VA902b monitors


wrote in message news:5201036@discussion.autodesk.com...
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=6740482
Message 52 of 152
Anonymous
in reply to: jorgeledezma

I'm thinking that it's likely that you meant to type "perform" due diligence
Randy?
;-)

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
----------------------------------------------------------
LDT/CD-2K4
AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual 2.01GHz
XPPro 32bit SP2
2GB RAM
Dual WD800JD Hard Drives - 149GB Nvidia Stripe
Nvidia Quadro FX 1300 128MB
Dual ViewSonic 19-inch VA902b monitors


wrote in message news:5202047@discussion.autodesk.com...
"" fix files that ACAD Audit/Restore can't fix. The file was in only used in
ACAD until then so what is so trusty about that? ""

Does this happen to you often? What 3rd party apps do you have loaded??

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" Speaking of MS, if you really know how to use and configure MicroStation
you really don't have any problems. ""

There again, that depends on the version of MS and certain settings in
effect while producing the file in MSTA and the settings used for the
translation.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" is it the software or user error? ""

Oh, without a doubt, it's pilot error. But the fault lies with the Bentley
propaganda that claims seamless transition between the two programs. It is
only seamless (not really then either) if you do due diligence in setting up
the translation. Unfortunately, many users don't, they heard it was easy, so
they just save as autocad and send me the fie. They usually get it back
that afternoon.
Message 53 of 152
rculp
in reply to: jorgeledezma

"" AutoCAD 2K7 IS 3D, previous 3D was just a funny thing. ""

ahhh, now I understand. You don't know a thing about AutoCAD. I've been doing production 3D AutoCAD for 15 years. Here we went exclusively 3D about 5 years ago with R14. Granted R2K7 will make it easier, but the say that prior releases were "just a funny thing" belies your true ignorance of the software.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" because the new added features. It will be a pain translate it to previous AutoCAD releases and desktops, not to mention to the competition formats. ""

Happens with every release, some more so than others. But to put a finer point on it here. Compatibility with earlier releases is only a concern for those who do not (for whatever reason) keep up with the latest software. Compatibility with "other" programs is no concern at all. NONE of this has anything at all to do with Trusted DWG, save that we can now get a warning that the file is not a native AutoDESK DWG.
But hey, that's just me.

Randall Culp
Civil-Structural Design Technician
(aka CADaver)
Message 54 of 152
rculp
in reply to: jorgeledezma

I dunno, I kinda like the "do due" part when referring to MSTA.
But hey, that's just me.

Randall Culp
Civil-Structural Design Technician
(aka CADaver)
Message 55 of 152
rculp
in reply to: jorgeledezma

Why should AutoDESK open up their proprietary format? Show of hands here, how many are willing to give away their work product fee of charge?? The ODA just wants something for free from AutoDESK so they can avoid paying AutoDESK for their program. Doesn't sound very fair (or likely) to me. Quick, what would it benefit AutoDESK to give away their work product to the ODA??

I blame Bentley not for poor translations, but for the outright prevarications they commit in selling their product. I've read their propaganda and heard what they've told our suppliers. They have sold their software under a claim of complete translation compatibility seamless between formats, and that is just a load of bull pucky.

I don't care a whit whether Bentley and the ODA can produce a 100% translation. They just need to quit telling people they can. They apparently had difficulty competing on their own nickle, and now wish AutoDESK to freely give them the tools by which they can better compete with AutoDESK.

Does that sound remotely intelligent to you?? Would you freely give your work product to your competition so that they could better compete with you?? Judging from the number of threads I've seen here and other forums asking about locking drawing files so that people couldn't boost blocks and details, I'd say very few users would think it a good idea.
But hey, that's just me.

Randall Culp
Civil-Structural Design Technician
(aka CADaver)
Message 56 of 152
Anonymous
in reply to: jorgeledezma

Well now...

I can't wait to see Jorge's reply!
:-o

snip>save that we can now get a warning that the file is not a native
AutoDESK DWG.
I (for one) wish this might also occur related to the Educational version.
:-(

The "warning" portion of the snip from Randy's reply, that is.

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
----------------------------------------------------------
LDT/CD-2K4
AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual 2.01GHz
XPPro 32bit SP2
2GB RAM
Dual WD800JD Hard Drives - 149GB Nvidia Stripe
Nvidia Quadro FX 1300 128MB
Dual ViewSonic 19-inch VA902b monitors


wrote in message news:5203406@discussion.autodesk.com...
"" AutoCAD 2K7 IS 3D, previous 3D was just a funny thing. ""

ahhh, now I understand. You don't know a thing about AutoCAD. I've been
doing production 3D AutoCAD for 15 years. Here we went exclusively 3D about
5 years ago with R14. Granted R2K7 will make it easier, but the say that
prior releases were "just a funny thing" belies your true ignorance of the
software.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" because the new added features. It will be a pain translate it to
previous AutoCAD releases and desktops, not to mention to the competition
formats. ""

Happens with every release, some more so than others. But to put a finer
point on it here. Compatibility with earlier releases is only a concern for
those who do not (for whatever reason) keep up with the latest software.
Compatibility with "other" programs is no concern at all. NONE of this has
anything at all to do with Trusted DWG, save that we can now get a warning
that the file is not a native AutoDESK DWG.
Message 57 of 152
Anonymous
in reply to: jorgeledezma

And for those of us ignorant of these fine points of MSTA...

Since we don't know what it is an acronym for?

Even the 1st page on Google isn't much help in regards to an Autodesk
derivative.
http://tinyurl.com/nw4hz

And the Desker Search in the Knowledge Base comes up noticeably dry also;
http://tinyurl.com/mug3n

A little help for my further enlightenment would be greatly appreciated.

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
----------------------------------------------------------
LDT/CD-2K4
AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual 2.01GHz
XPPro 32bit SP2
2GB RAM
Dual WD800JD Hard Drives - 149GB Nvidia Stripe
Nvidia Quadro FX 1300 128MB
Dual ViewSonic 19-inch VA902b monitors


wrote in message news:5203408@discussion.autodesk.com...
I dunno, I kinda like the "do due" part when referring to MSTA.
Message 58 of 152
Anonymous
in reply to: jorgeledezma

No, that doesn't sounds remotely intelligent to me. Autodesk owns the tool
used to create the data not the data itself. As an end user I feel I should
be able to accurately acquire my data with or without the use of an Autodesk
product. If I want to access the data via an Autodesk product, a Bentley
product or a tool of my own creation I should be able to as it is my
property.

Autodesk should take a lesson from Adobe[1].

[1] http://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/pdf/index_reference.html

--
Regards,
Tim
http://tjriley.infogami.com/pyacaddotnet


wrote in message news:5203419@discussion.autodesk.com...
Why should AutoDESK open up their proprietary format? Show of hands here,
how many are willing to give away their work product fee of charge?? The
ODA just wants something for free from AutoDESK so they can avoid paying
AutoDESK for their program. Doesn't sound very fair (or likely) to me.
Quick, what would it benefit AutoDESK to give away their work product to the
ODA??

I blame Bentley not for poor translations, but for the outright
prevarications they commit in selling their product. I've read their
propaganda and heard what they've told our suppliers. They have sold their
software under a claim of complete translation compatibility seamless
between formats, and that is just a load of bull pucky.

I don't care a whit whether Bentley and the ODA can produce a 100%
translation. They just need to quit telling people they can. They
apparently had difficulty competing on their own nickle, and now wish
AutoDESK to freely give them the tools by which they can better compete with
AutoDESK.

Does that sound remotely intelligent to you?? Would you freely give your
work product to your competition so that they could better compete with
you?? Judging from the number of threads I've seen here and other forums
asking about locking drawing files so that people couldn't boost blocks and
details, I'd say very few users would think it a good idea.
Message 59 of 152
Anonymous
in reply to: jorgeledezma

MSTA = Microstation ( I believe, but i not the smartest peanut in the terd)

"Don Reichle" wrote in message
news:5203541@discussion.autodesk.com...
And for those of us ignorant of these fine points of MSTA...

Since we don't know what it is an acronym for?

Even the 1st page on Google isn't much help in regards to an Autodesk
derivative.
http://tinyurl.com/nw4hz

And the Desker Search in the Knowledge Base comes up noticeably dry also;
http://tinyurl.com/mug3n

A little help for my further enlightenment would be greatly appreciated.

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
----------------------------------------------------------
LDT/CD-2K4
AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual 2.01GHz
XPPro 32bit SP2
2GB RAM
Dual WD800JD Hard Drives - 149GB Nvidia Stripe
Nvidia Quadro FX 1300 128MB
Dual ViewSonic 19-inch VA902b monitors


wrote in message news:5203408@discussion.autodesk.com...
I dunno, I kinda like the "do due" part when referring to MSTA.
Message 60 of 152
Anonymous
in reply to: jorgeledezma

On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 20:17:54 +0000, Randy Culp <> wrote:

>Why should AutoDESK open up their proprietary format? Show of hands here, how many are willing to give away their work product fee of charge?? The ODA just wants something for free from AutoDESK so they can avoid paying AutoDESK for their program. Doesn't sound very fair (or likely) to me. Quick, what would it benefit AutoDESK to give away their work product to the ODA??

Absolutely. This is nuts if you think Autodesk should give out their
file format. I'm sorry, you need to use one of "our" drawings, then
purchase the product. This isn't a .jpg here were' talking about. If
you just need to view it, get a DWF of it, or a PDF if need be. Or
better yet, go get True View (free last I knew of). Look at it to
your hearts content. But to think that I have to give you full access
to my proprietary format, well you've completely lost your mind.

I have no idea for the answer to this question as I don't know anyone
that uses Microstation, but is their drawing format open source? It
doesn't seem like good business sense to me, but hey, what do I know,
I'm not a business owner.

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