CAD Managers

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*Shipley, Jonathan
Message 1 of 12 (92 Views)

Upgrading "Old School" Thinking

92 Views, 11 Replies
12-04-2000 04:32 AM
Please help! I am very young CAD Manager/LAN Administrator (23) with the
average age of CAD & design personall being 35. My question is how do you
convence persons from the "OLD SCHOOL" that upgrading to a new version of
CAD software can be a good thing. The statement I always get is "I could do
the same work I do today with AutoCAD 10". I know that not all progress is
a good thing but according to the majority of the personal I work with is
ALL progress is bad. I have asked them "Would you want to be using the same
computer you used four years ago?", and their answer is always NO. So then
I ask why do you not want to upgrade the software?{NEVER AN ANSWER}

Maybe I should just put all of them back to using the drafting tables and
pencils, and get rid of e-mail and the internet!
*KM
Message 2 of 12 (92 Views)

Re: Upgrading "Old School" Thinking

12-04-2000 04:47 AM in reply to: *Shipley, Jonathan
Being "thirty-something" and also a cad manager type, I agree that
people do not generally like change. We are comfortable with the
routines and commands that work for us and hesitate to have downtime
from new software. If you could load one station with upgraded
software and demonstrate one "big-easy" improvement that will ehance
their ability, you may see some changes. If you want to convince them
of the importance of keeping up with the Jones', then you also need to
show them how to make the transistion.

Best of luck to you.

Kathy

On Mon, 4 Dec 2000 12:32:14 -0800, "Jonathan Shipley"
wrote:

>Please help! I am very young CAD Manager/LAN Administrator (23) with the
>average age of CAD & design personall being 35. My question is how do you
>convence persons from the "OLD SCHOOL" that upgrading to a new version of
>CAD software can be a good thing. The statement I always get is "I could do
>the same work I do today with AutoCAD 10". I know that not all progress is
>a good thing but according to the majority of the personal I work with is
>ALL progress is bad. I have asked them "Would you want to be using the same
>computer you used four years ago?", and their answer is always NO. So then
>I ask why do you not want to upgrade the software?{NEVER AN ANSWER}
>
>Maybe I should just put all of them back to using the drafting tables and
>pencils, and get rid of e-mail and the internet!
*Shipley, Jonathan
Message 3 of 12 (92 Views)

Re:

12-04-2000 05:18 AM in reply to: *Shipley, Jonathan
I have already tried the route of allowing personal to try out the software
for about 6 months. I have given presentations, workgroups, made workbooks
and still I have personal that arevery productive and benficial to the
company that refuse to change. Currently about 85% of the office is on the
same page but the other 15% is either working on a special project or as
stated earlier refusing to upgrade.

I don't agree 100% with ideal of upgrading to latest and greatest at the
monent it is released, but our company has purchased the VIP subscription
and which gives us the latest and greatest. So why not take advantage of it
once it is reviewed and found to be useful?

"KM" wrote in message
news:1e0o2tsapk1anbipuikd1ba2c73kthetkm@4ax.com...
> Being "thirty-something" and also a cad manager type, I agree that
> people do not generally like change. We are comfortable with the
> routines and commands that work for us and hesitate to have downtime
> from new software. If you could load one station with upgraded
> software and demonstrate one "big-easy" improvement that will ehance
> their ability, you may see some changes. If you want to convince them
> of the importance of keeping up with the Jones', then you also need to
> show them how to make the transistion.
>
> Best of luck to you.
>
> Kathy
>
> On Mon, 4 Dec 2000 12:32:14 -0800, "Jonathan Shipley"
> wrote:
>
> >Please help! I am very young CAD Manager/LAN Administrator (23) with the
> >average age of CAD & design personall being 35. My question is how do
you
> >convence persons from the "OLD SCHOOL" that upgrading to a new version of
> >CAD software can be a good thing. The statement I always get is "I could
do
> >the same work I do today with AutoCAD 10". I know that not all progress
is
> >a good thing but according to the majority of the personal I work with is
> >ALL progress is bad. I have asked them "Would you want to be using the
same
> >computer you used four years ago?", and their answer is always NO. So
then
> >I ask why do you not want to upgrade the software?{NEVER AN ANSWER}
> >
> >Maybe I should just put all of them back to using the drafting tables and
> >pencils, and get rid of e-mail and the internet!
>
*McDonough, Mark
Message 4 of 12 (92 Views)

Re:

12-04-2000 06:44 AM in reply to: *Shipley, Jonathan
Keeping abreast of the latest software is worthwhile, but here are a few
pointers from this battle-weary CAD Manager.

1. Never install the version 1.0 of anything. It's sure to be very buggy
(the bleeding edge).

2. On major releases, always at least wait for the first major patch to be
issued before moving forward. Listen to the "buzz" out there to see if the
patch is worthwhile, to make sure it doesn't introduce its own serious
regressive bugs.

3. The growing trend with new software is rather unsettling, always trying
to completely reinvent itself rather than build upon previous releases, and
frequently leaving out good stuff they had previously. The idea that new
software takes a big step forward but also takes a couple steps backward,
seems all too true.

Example to illustrate item #2. After waiting years for a decent AutoCAD DWG
viewer/red-lining tool (We had Autodesk View 2.0, but it never worked very
well), we finally upgraded to Volo View version 1.11. It has a litany of
bugs (see Volo View newsgroup, Sep-Oct 2000 time frame, and a 20-page bug
report I produced and posted). In Version 1.0, the Redlines would print.
In Version 1.1, a regression occured and Redlines would no longer print! In
version 1.11 (the latest), they fixed the non-printing Redlines but
introduced another regression in which a memory leak in the Layer dialog box
instantly causes Volo View to crash. We opted to install Version 1.1
(non-printing redlines) for the time being, because the latest version is
rather dangerous and crashes one's computer when touching the layer
dialog.... so we went with the lesser of two evils.

--
Mark McDonough
mmcdonough@sasaki.com
http://www.sasaki.com

"Jonathan Shipley" wrote in message
news:4EA1A05CE9213B2E080C73C797A322EE@in.WebX.SaUCah8kaAW...
> I have already tried the route of allowing personal to try out the
software
> for about 6 months. I have given presentations, workgroups, made
workbooks
> and still I have personal that arevery productive and benficial to the
> company that refuse to change. Currently about 85% of the office is on
the
> same page but the other 15% is either working on a special project or as
> stated earlier refusing to upgrade.
>
> I don't agree 100% with ideal of upgrading to latest and greatest at the
> monent it is released, but our company has purchased the VIP subscription
> and which gives us the latest and greatest. So why not take advantage of
it
> once it is reviewed and found to be useful?
>
Distinguished Contributor
dalexander
Posts: 106
Registered: ‎01-30-2001
Message 5 of 12 (92 Views)

Re:

12-04-2000 07:32 AM in reply to: *Shipley, Jonathan
Just because you upgrade the version does not mean that you have to upgrade the system. This doesn't work to well with plotting and 2000. It sounds like everybody is not using the same drafting standard. If they are, upgrade the ones that want and let the others come along at their own pace. Just don't let anyone else edit their drawings. Dave Alexander
*Seibert, Dave
Message 6 of 12 (92 Views)

Re: Upgrading "Old School" Thinking

12-04-2000 08:27 AM in reply to: *Shipley, Jonathan
It sounds like you have done the job of showing them the good things about
the new release. That would be one of the things I would have suggested, but
you've already done that.

My question to you would be; Do you do any tutoring and mentoring? Do you
just wander around watching how your people are using their machines? Do you
make suggestions about how they may use their machines better, even using
the version they are using. Are you also a producing part of the engineering
department or is your job totally CAD Manager?

All this makes a difference. If you are just a CAD Manager, it could be a
little tougher. I don't want to sound too cocky... but I have been at my
current company for about 6 months now and people are just starting to
figure out that maybe there's a better way to work than the way they been
using. When someone has a question on AutoCAD, now they come to me. It takes
a while but it does happen.

There are a million experts out there and people have grown accustomed to
just ignoring everyone because you never know who really knows and who is
just blowing smoke. It helps if you are doing real work.

If your not doing "real" work, I would hope you are at least testing new
ways of doing things with AutoCAD. If you are doing a lot of testing,
perhaps you could ask the other people's opinion on the testing you are
doing. You don't have to let them have final say but including them in on
the cutting edge or just new way, of doing things will give them a feeling
of being a part of the decisions. People don't like having someone else run
their lives. If you give them a feeling of being a part of things (whether
they are or not), they will feel better about coming on-board with your
ideas.

Normally the hardcore guys are the ones wo have been working with AutoCAD
for a while and feel no one knows as much as they do. You have to get these
people on your side if your going to bring everyone along. Some of the
things they may suggest may seem rediculous, but some of the things they may
say could be a real help to you. Some things they say maybe you could change
because it really doesn'y matter one way or the other.

Do not get so hardened by their attitudes that you get their attitude. You
have to work with these people or at some point it will be impossible to do
your job. You have to be friendly and helpful. You don't have to be best
buds with them but you do have to be conversationaly friendly.

Whatever you do, your in a great position, so...

Have fun,

Dave
*Rayman, Andre
Message 7 of 12 (92 Views)

Re: Upgrading "Old School" Thinking

12-05-2000 12:27 AM in reply to: *Shipley, Jonathan
At 38 years old, I'd hardly consider myself "Old School". If your bunch of
30 somethings thinks that they can do work as fast with release 10 as 2000i,
then I would guess that they probably don't have a good knowledge of the
tools that are available with the newer versions.

You are going to have to find the weakest link, and start working on
him/her. Once the rest of the lemmings see how fast your project child is
slicing through the work, they'll drop their old toys, and be begging you to
upgrade their machines.

My method was somewhat less friendly....
*martin, jason
Message 8 of 12 (92 Views)

Re:

12-05-2000 12:54 AM in reply to: *Shipley, Jonathan
Dave's idea of showing them the new things is a good one, but you also have to show them
the old things. Most of the time new bells and whistles don't replace the things that
people use 90% of the time. You also have to show them that the way that they've been
doing things still works, or if it doesn't work why and how the new way is better.

In my experience you can't convince people that the new way is better, all that you can do
is show them the new tools, the old tool etc and let them convince themselves that the new
software is better.

Dave's idea of tutoring/mentoring is wonderful. Before you begin the implementation of
the new software have some "demos" once a week (or whatever you can work in) at lunch
(either brownbag or if the company will spring for it have the company provide lunch) and
actually use the software to do the work that some of the people are doing. Make copies
of their drawings and actually work on them. Have the users walk you through what they
are designing and how they are doing it. This will do two things, not only will it get
them comfortable with the software but it will also show you what things the users
actually need. By seeing how they work and how they want to work, you may be able to
improve the software with minimal customization, or you may be able to make them more
productive by using the spacebar here rather than right clicking.

Do not continuously show them canned demos. A canned demo is fine for the first "class"
so that you can show the people some of the possibilities, but after that work on their
actual drawings, doing what they do. There will probably be times that you get stuck. If
there is something that you don't know how to do during the meeting make a note to
yourself and work on it before the next meeting. At the beginning open the drawing back
up where you got stuck and show them how to do it and how easy it was.

Like I said you cannot convince them that the new software is better. They have to
convince themselves.

hth

jason martin
frankfurt-short-bruza
"Dave Seibert" wrote in message
news:78F8A38F73A68296C9D0B001366A8B37@in.WebX.SaUCah8kaAW...
> It sounds like you have done the job of showing them the good things about
> the new release. That would be one of the things I would have suggested, but
> you've already done that.
>
> My question to you would be; Do you do any tutoring and mentoring? Do you
> just wander around watching how your people are using their machines? Do you
> make suggestions about how they may use their machines better, even using
> the version they are using. Are you also a producing part of the engineering
> department or is your job totally CAD Manager?
>
> All this makes a difference. If you are just a CAD Manager, it could be a
> little tougher. I don't want to sound too cocky... but I have been at my
> current company for about 6 months now and people are just starting to
> figure out that maybe there's a better way to work than the way they been
> using. When someone has a question on AutoCAD, now they come to me. It takes
> a while but it does happen.
>
> There are a million experts out there and people have grown accustomed to
> just ignoring everyone because you never know who really knows and who is
> just blowing smoke. It helps if you are doing real work.
>
> If your not doing "real" work, I would hope you are at least testing new
> ways of doing things with AutoCAD. If you are doing a lot of testing,
> perhaps you could ask the other people's opinion on the testing you are
> doing. You don't have to let them have final say but including them in on
> the cutting edge or just new way, of doing things will give them a feeling
> of being a part of the decisions. People don't like having someone else run
> their lives. If you give them a feeling of being a part of things (whether
> they are or not), they will feel better about coming on-board with your
> ideas.
>
> Normally the hardcore guys are the ones wo have been working with AutoCAD
> for a while and feel no one knows as much as they do. You have to get these
> people on your side if your going to bring everyone along. Some of the
> things they may suggest may seem rediculous, but some of the things they may
> say could be a real help to you. Some things they say maybe you could change
> because it really doesn'y matter one way or the other.
>
> Do not get so hardened by their attitudes that you get their attitude. You
> have to work with these people or at some point it will be impossible to do
> your job. You have to be friendly and helpful. You don't have to be best
> buds with them but you do have to be conversationaly friendly.
>
> Whatever you do, your in a great position, so...
>
> Have fun,
>
> Dave
>
*DASeibert
Message 9 of 12 (92 Views)

Re:

12-05-2000 01:02 AM in reply to: *Shipley, Jonathan
Yea, what he said too.

Except for one slight change. If you get stuck, ask. This is a great way for
you to show that you don't know everything and pull these people in to your
side. Getting them to help you is going to be one of the best ways you have
of making the system, however it ends up, belong to everyone, not just you.

Have fun,

Dave
*Follmer, CJ
Message 10 of 12 (92 Views)

Re: Upgrading "Old School" Thinking

12-05-2000 02:45 AM in reply to: *Shipley, Jonathan
Not really recommended ideas but here goes:

Get the powers-that-be behind you in getting everyone working with the latest software. The boss says you have to
upgrade.

or

Tell them due to technical reasons or because of the cost of maintaining the older versions, they will be discontinued
and they must now start working on the new version. for example, Release 10 doesn't work well (at all) with Windows
2000.

I'd say these are worst case scenarios. They are very likely to cause some backlash. I wouldn't use them, but getting
the higher-ups to back you on moving everyone to the newer version will help no matter what.

CJ

"Jonathan Shipley" wrote in message
news:4B8CE34652C8AEA97EA6854120076FA5@in.WebX.SaUCah8kaAW...
> Please help! I am very young CAD Manager/LAN Administrator (23) with the
> average age of CAD & design personall being 35. My question is how do you
> convence persons from the "OLD SCHOOL" that upgrading to a new version of
> CAD software can be a good thing. The statement I always get is "I could do
> the same work I do today with AutoCAD 10". I know that not all progress is
> a good thing but according to the majority of the personal I work with is
> ALL progress is bad. I have asked them "Would you want to be using the same
> computer you used four years ago?", and their answer is always NO. So then
> I ask why do you not want to upgrade the software?{NEVER AN ANSWER}
>
> Maybe I should just put all of them back to using the drafting tables and
> pencils, and get rid of e-mail and the internet!
>
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