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This is not only for instructors

7 REPLIES 7
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Message 1 of 8
Anonymous
312 Views, 7 Replies

This is not only for instructors

Hello,

I am a part-time instructor for a community college and have 6 years of
solid AutoCAD experience. I am by no means an expert, but I am qualified to
teach an introductory course in AutoCAD.

If you are responsible for hiring CAD operators, I would like to know what
amount of CAD skill you expect from graduates either from a college or
technical program. I don't know how you would rate CAD skill without work
experience but let's try.

If you are an AutoCAD instructor, I would like to know what is emphasized in
the course that you teach? For example, is it basics covering commands
primarily in 2D or a combination of 2D and 3D? What
applications/disciplines of AutoCAD are emphasized to get the most of
AutoCAD? For example, is it Architecture, Mechanical, Civil, or Structural.
AutoCAD is such a powerful tool it is very difficult to teach/learn every
aspect of the program and apply it in all of the possible fields of
drafting. I, with 6 years of experience, still have a lot to learn.

The institution I work for is interested in teaching Advanced AutoCAD
skills. I think more 3D work will be done in the near future, and I feel as
an instructor/employer the graduates should be educated as much as possible.
I think this would make for better prospective employees. I am open to
ideas and suggestions of what you think students these days should be
learning. I understand different regions of the world will have different
answers to this topic.

--
CAD Manager/Designer
Part-time Drafting Instructor
Jason Renteria
7 REPLIES 7
Message 2 of 8
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I teach several AutoCAD and a VIZ class at a local community college, from
an intro type class to an advanced class preparing construction documents
for a one-story wood frame house.

Different materials are used for each and different concepts are emphasized
in each class. It think it's quite possible to train users to maintain the
same level of expert quality and care in preparing documents at any level
though. In the advanced class I emphasize CAD Standards (AIA, UDS, etc) and
hammer on accuracy and all the usual things most CAD Managers do. (I also
manage a CAD department at a structural engineering firm.) I try to educate
my students and give them ways of working that mimic what I find being used
in the real world...paperspace, xrefs, etc. I also try to make sure they
REALLY understand how to use those concepts, the benefits and the problems
they all have.

This is what I hope: That when they finish with my (advanced) class they
could step into most work places and hit the ground running once they
understand that work place's standards. I find that many of my ex-students
actually end up bringing to those places techniques and standards that
actually exceed the ones in place. So, it's important for you as the
instructor to be in-touch with the way things are being done in your local
community.

Cheers,

Robert Grandmaison

"Jason Renteria" wrote in message
news:26E51752C642A840CD315C8972818DF4@in.WebX.SaUCah8kaAW...
> Hello,
>
> I am a part-time instructor for a community college and have 6 years of
> solid AutoCAD experience. I am by no means an expert, but I am qualified
to
> teach an introductory course in AutoCAD.
>
> If you are responsible for hiring CAD operators, I would like to know what
> amount of CAD skill you expect from graduates either from a college or
> technical program. I don't know how you would rate CAD skill without work
> experience but let's try.
>
> If you are an AutoCAD instructor, I would like to know what is emphasized
in
> the course that you teach? For example, is it basics covering commands
> primarily in 2D or a combination of 2D and 3D? What
> applications/disciplines of AutoCAD are emphasized to get the most of
> AutoCAD? For example, is it Architecture, Mechanical, Civil, or
Structural.
> AutoCAD is such a powerful tool it is very difficult to teach/learn every
> aspect of the program and apply it in all of the possible fields of
> drafting. I, with 6 years of experience, still have a lot to learn.
>
> The institution I work for is interested in teaching Advanced AutoCAD
> skills. I think more 3D work will be done in the near future, and I feel
as
> an instructor/employer the graduates should be educated as much as
possible.
> I think this would make for better prospective employees. I am open to
> ideas and suggestions of what you think students these days should be
> learning. I understand different regions of the world will have different
> answers to this topic.
>
> --
> CAD Manager/Designer
> Part-time Drafting Instructor
> Jason Renteria
>
Message 3 of 8
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

It may be alittle off the topic but one of the more important things ( I am not sure how you would do it ) is attitude. Some of the first people we hired out of the community college in the late 80's had an attitude which was not very productive for us. They thought that they were the experts and not subject to our office standards. We had one fellow who would create his own lisp macros on the fly on the command line. Not very efficient and it ignored the menu which insert blocks, etc on specific layers based on the current layer. They have to have an open mind learn to work with the office cad system the same way they have to learn to work with their fellow employees. Dave Alexander
Message 4 of 8
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I am a 3rd party member, i.e. I have taken CC CAD and Engineering Graphics
classes, and been involved with hiring from a CC. The biggest issue is not how
well you know CAD, but how much you know of the industry. Granted, users may be
great at 3D rendering and animation, but having a "CAD Drafting" degree will do
no good in, say a mechanical job if they were taught by an Architect (that's the
case here). A while back we hired a candidate fresh out of school, 2yr CAD
degree, and a nice portfolio. Problem was, they had NO mechanical aptitude!
Maybe a little poor recruiting on our part, but 99% of the people that graduated
had no mechanical ability, but they could create realistic renderings. Our most
recent hire has little AutoCAD experience, but since he has worked in mechanical
for a few years he was the unanimous choice. Therefore my question is, what
exactly are you trying to accomplish, teaching CAD, or preparing students for
the "real world"? Just my 1 cent.

Brad Pfaff
CAD Administrator
A&B Plastics, Inc.

Jason Renteria wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I am a part-time instructor for a community college and have 6 years of
> solid AutoCAD experience. I am by no means an expert, but I am qualified to
> teach an introductory course in AutoCAD.
>
> If you are responsible for hiring CAD operators, I would like to know what
> amount of CAD skill you expect from graduates either from a college or
> technical program. I don't know how you would rate CAD skill without work
> experience but let's try.
>
> If you are an AutoCAD instructor, I would like to know what is emphasized in
> the course that you teach? For example, is it basics covering commands
> primarily in 2D or a combination of 2D and 3D? What
> applications/disciplines of AutoCAD are emphasized to get the most of
> AutoCAD? For example, is it Architecture, Mechanical, Civil, or Structural.
> AutoCAD is such a powerful tool it is very difficult to teach/learn every
> aspect of the program and apply it in all of the possible fields of
> drafting. I, with 6 years of experience, still have a lot to learn.
>
> The institution I work for is interested in teaching Advanced AutoCAD
> skills. I think more 3D work will be done in the near future, and I feel as
> an instructor/employer the graduates should be educated as much as possible.
> I think this would make for better prospective employees. I am open to
> ideas and suggestions of what you think students these days should be
> learning. I understand different regions of the world will have different
> answers to this topic.
>
> --
> CAD Manager/Designer
> Part-time Drafting Instructor
> Jason Renteria
Message 5 of 8
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Jason,

The instructor acts like a bridge between the student and the knowledge.
Some students understand this very well and cross the bridge and go
further, becoming very good at what they do, whatever discipline they are
involved in. Some others think the instructor has to carry them over his
shoulders in order to cross the bridge. Some others don't even want to
attempt anything at all. Therefore, I would suggest you to focus yourself
on being a good bridge, and not to worry too much about how your students
perform after the course.

Organize the contents of your courses very well, breaking down the whole
thing into short courses, very well separated. Do not try to show too much
in too little time. That eventually leads to confusion. Focus on tasks and
procedures, rather than on commands. Focus on consistency, clarity,
readability, and the importance of standards. Also, instruct your students
on how to get additional help, so they can expand their own knowledge by
searching in other resources.

During the course, try to have your students complete cycles. Even with a
small exercise, show the cycle made of phases such as starting up a
project, naming it, setting it up, doing the line work, adding annotations
and dimensions, saving it properly and printing it. The complexity varies
during the course, of course, but the cycle must be completed. This gives
you an opportunity to break down subjects into parts and expand the concept
of "CAD skills", which is not only drawing lines on the screen. I call this
a "vertical approach", as opposed to a "horizontal approach" where the
first steps are done in the first exercises and the final ones are left to
be done in the final exercises (or are never done at all).

Alfredo Medina
alfmedina@hotmail.com
Moderator

Jason Renteria wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I am a part-time instructor for a community college and have 6 years of
> solid AutoCAD experience. I am by no means an expert, but I am qualified to
> teach an introductory course in AutoCAD.
>
> If you are responsible for hiring CAD operators, I would like to know what
> amount of CAD skill you expect from graduates either from a college or
> technical program. I don't know how you would rate CAD skill without work
> experience but let's try.
>
> If you are an AutoCAD instructor, I would like to know what is emphasized in
> the course that you teach? For example, is it basics covering commands
> primarily in 2D or a combination of 2D and 3D? What
> applications/disciplines of AutoCAD are emphasized to get the most of
> AutoCAD? For example, is it Architecture, Mechanical, Civil, or Structural.
> AutoCAD is such a powerful tool it is very difficult to teach/learn every
> aspect of the program and apply it in all of the possible fields of
> drafting. I, with 6 years of experience, still have a lot to learn.
>
> The institution I work for is interested in teaching Advanced AutoCAD
> skills. I think more 3D work will be done in the near future, and I feel as
> an instructor/employer the graduates should be educated as much as possible.
> I think this would make for better prospective employees. I am open to
> ideas and suggestions of what you think students these days should be
> learning. I understand different regions of the world will have different
> answers to this topic.
>
> --
> CAD Manager/Designer
> Part-time Drafting Instructor
> Jason Renteria
Message 6 of 8
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Jason,

I am an architect & I teach Architectural Desktop for our local community
college. My course is obviously architectural & requires the prerequisite of
two previous levels of AutoCAD or experience.

I try to emphasize accuracy & we cover all basic features of ADT. I don't
think we have time to cover this software and do a project, so I've designed
a course that focuses on individual topics that are somewhat cumulative.

I believe an entry level AutoCAD course can be generic but after that should
be discipline specific.

HTH,
Dennis McNeal
Architectural Resources

Jason Renteria wrote in message
<26E51752C642A840CD315C8972818DF4@in.WebX.SaUCah8kaAW>...
>Hello,
>
>I am a part-time instructor for a community college and have 6 years of
>solid AutoCAD experience. I am by no means an expert, but I am qualified
to
>teach an introductory course in AutoCAD.
>
>If you are responsible for hiring CAD operators, I would like to know what
>amount of CAD skill you expect from graduates either from a college or
>technical program. I don't know how you would rate CAD skill without work
>experience but let's try.
>
>If you are an AutoCAD instructor, I would like to know what is emphasized
in
>the course that you teach? For example, is it basics covering commands
>primarily in 2D or a combination of 2D and 3D? What
>applications/disciplines of AutoCAD are emphasized to get the most of
>AutoCAD? For example, is it Architecture, Mechanical, Civil, or
Structural.
>AutoCAD is such a powerful tool it is very difficult to teach/learn every
>aspect of the program and apply it in all of the possible fields of
>drafting. I, with 6 years of experience, still have a lot to learn.
>
>The institution I work for is interested in teaching Advanced AutoCAD
>skills. I think more 3D work will be done in the near future, and I feel
as
>an instructor/employer the graduates should be educated as much as
possible.
>I think this would make for better prospective employees. I am open to
>ideas and suggestions of what you think students these days should be
>learning. I understand different regions of the world will have different
>answers to this topic.
>
>--
>CAD Manager/Designer
>Part-time Drafting Instructor
>Jason Renteria
>
Message 7 of 8
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 11:07:11 -0800, "Jason Renteria" wrote:

>Hello,

>If you are responsible for hiring CAD operators, I would like to know what
>amount of CAD skill you expect from graduates either from a college or
>technical program. I don't know how you would rate CAD skill without work
>experience but let's try.

Well, you are right that it is very difficult to judge someone's skill without a
lot of practical experience; that's true for almost anything but in AutoCAD it's
very expensive if you make the wrong choice.

I'm not an instructor, but I deal with neophyte CAD users on an almost constant
basis, and do know what I'd LIKE to see them have mastered before we get into
the specifics of our CAD standards.

First and foremost is attention to true accuracy and a clear understanding of
precision CAD drafting. People who draw "Bad CAD" are out the door in a hurry
with me. Learn the ins and outs of the tools yoy have at your disposal: ORTHO,
SNAP, OSNAP; understand coordinate systems; understand the evils of setting
precision to anything less than 1/256". This is very discipline agnostic;
mechanical and architectural drafting both need this basic comprehension.

Then, it's learn the complete toolset of editing and drawing commands. Know all
of the permutations of every command; for this I recommend teaching from the
command line. Once they understand the command line, that directly makes them
faster and I feel gets them thinking ahead fo the curve. Teach them to think
logically inside their head about what they want to do: "Ok, I want to offset 9"
this line, now trim fence..." and so on. I like someone who can edit a drawing
fast because he/she knows beforehand all the right commands, in the right order,
before they pick up a mouse.

When it comes to discipline-specifics, that's harder to quantify because so much
is dependant on CAD standards. How does your firm draw elevations, in relation
to the plan? Is it standardized? If not, could/should it be? Etc.

Matt
stachoni@bellatlantic.net
Message 8 of 8
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Call me old school if you wish but I agree completely. New users who learn with the
buttons don't get used to even looking at the command line for prompts. It seems a
terribly crippling way to learn.

Matt Stachoni wrote:

> ...Know all of the permutations of every command; for this I recommend teaching
> from the command line. Once they understand the command line, that directly makes
> them faster and I feel gets them thinking ahead of the curve.

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