Sketchup Antagonism - what gives?

[PaulMunford]

What's wrong with Sketchup anyway?

I don't use Sketchup, but many of the designers at my company do.

I get the impression that my collegies think I am down on Sketchup because I am the CAD manager and I use a 'Proper' CAD package.

People seem to love or hate Sketchup, but I'd like to hear some objective constructive criticism from you. 

What is Sketchup good for? What is it not good for? Have you managed to work Sketchup into your design to manufacture process?

Great stuff, thanks in advance for your thoughts,

Paul

[pendean]

It's great for quickly modeling a space (even adding finishes) and creating walkthroughs to show the client what we a re proposing (we're an Architerctural firm): plus almost everyone out there knows it too, so finding staff well versed in the product is now a prerequisite for us when hiring.

IMHO There is a time and place (and fees) for "proper" CAD, that's not the point of Sketchup.

[greg_battin]

Paul,

SketchUP has been my personal Favorite when it comes to modeling personal stuff like what my backyard would look like if I changed something or what my basement would look like if it were finished off...

 When I try to explain why I like SketchUP to people I say that it is sort of designed to be intuitive kind of like using a smart phone, it is intuitive and you can kind of tell what a tool does by looking at its icon.

In a work environment, I have have no clue what the process of deploying standards to users would be. My insights are simply from a personal use.

These are just my opinions. please don't bash them. I wont argue on a forum. I am aware that some of these things can be fixed by changing settings or finding an add-on or ruby.

A couple of things that I don't like about it from a drafting perspective:

• By default, when an object like a line or circle is intersected by another object like a line, circle or arc, the objects are automatically broken at their intersections. This gets frustrating when trying to select a circle only to find that it is no longer one object.
• Similarly, arcs and circles don't seem to be real arcs or circles or seem to forget that at one time they were. After a few edits the curved object turns into a many-sided polygon.
• When drafting/modeling, you can't have multiple viewports like you can in AutoCADmodelspace. So navigating around a drawing gets tricky because a simply orbit can send you view within the inside of a wall for instance and you can easily get stuck in a drawing behind an object.
• Something basic like copying isn't as intuitive as it should be. If you didn't know that to COPY is to use the MOVE tool and hold CTRL, you might be out of luck for a while.
• Zooming in or out follows your cursor and is also a ratio depending on if your cursor is hovering over an object. So lets say that you get stuck in your model behind an object, and instead of switching to a saved view or one of the default views, you manage to manually get out from behind the "wall" but you don't know where you are relative to anything, so your instinct is to zoom out. So you scroll and scroll on the mouse but since maybe there isn't anything on your cursor, the scrolling functionality acts as though someone played a prank on your "ZOOMFACTOR" (in AutoCAD terms).
• Working with text is clumsy in 
• In order to work in a paperspace environment there is a separate program called "Layout" where you can place dimensions and place text quite nicely. But it is still a separate program...
• File sizes tend to get rather large really quickly.
• Doing a save on a large file can be painful.
• Need a 3rd party software to a photo-realistic render

Things that I like:

• The ROTATE tool is really helpful when dealing with odd angles compared to AutoCAD.
• Selecting objects and there bounding edges or even many objects is as easy as a double clcik or triple click. And the right click menu for selecting objects is pretty slick too.
• The paper space equivilent "Layout" is awesome and makes great looking prints and PDFs easily.
• The eraser tool is so sweet that I requested Lee Mac to make a lisp routine to mimic it for AutoCAD - found here: http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=39014.msg441779#msg441779
• Working with section planes is intuitive and easy
• Working with images and projecting them and wrapping them on objects seems flexible and easy as well. Even creating a "material" to be applied to a face seems easy.

~Greg

[PaulMunford]

Thanks for the reply Pendean,

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@pendean wrote:

IMHO There is a time and place (and fees) for "proper" CAD, that's not the point of Sketchup.

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So at what point do you move from Sketch up into 'proper' CAD? Do you offer you staff guidance, or do they choose their own jumping off point?

What IS the point of Sketchup in your opinion?!

Also - what is your deliverable when using Sketchup? Do you use Layout or take screen captures or what?

We are in Architectural fabrication, so our Designers often send Sketchup models directly to the Architect as a way to communicate our preferred solution. In order to document this and get get sign off we then re-draw stuff in CAD.

What do you think of this approach? How would it work for you if one of your contractors approached you in this way?

[PaulMunford]

Thanks for the reply Greg,

I mainly use Sketchup to open and reference the Designers files (I don't do much modelling) so there's some good tips here for me!

[pendean]

We use Sketchup pretty much like you do, to communicate an idea or ideas or explore options or choices quickly to a client. Way before we commit to CAD-ing it up for a contractor to build.

We sell time: not sheets of paper. The more ideas we can communicate with a client in less time the better for the client's pocket and our payrolls.

Sketchup is this generation's "Napkin Sketch" tool, except you get a bigger napkin and better sketching tools: anyone using it (or expecting it) for much else doesn't really get Sketchup or it's purpose. it's not CAD and it's not meant to be, it doesn't need "cad standards" or any other rigid settings or requirements, you want the user to be free and unrestricted in the design flow.

PS: if you don't know what the heck you are drawing or how what you're drawing gets built you probably shouldn't be using sketchup or working on the project in the first place 🙂

[PaulMunford]

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pendean wrote:

We sell time: not sheets of paper. The more ideas we can communicate with a client in less time the better for the client's pocket and our payrolls.

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Excellent comment!

I'm going to steal that if you don't mind 😉

I guess that we see drawing sign off as a real barrier to moving on with the project. We want to give the Architect enough detail in our sign off drawings that they can trust that we know what we are doing, but we dont want to spend so long on drawings that if the Client/Architect changes their mind, it's not going to take us too long to update the submittal set.

I suspect that our designers don't jump of the SU wagon earlier because they don't have to provide a submittal set of drawings, or geometry for CNC (The CAD team does that). I think that they are having a nice time putting all the details in and dont want to stop designing! 😉

[NathanG.ITEC]

I am a professional 3D modeler, and have been modeling primarily with SketcjhUp for just over 10 years now.  I have trained staff in SketchUp and I have also worked with Maya, 3D Studio Max, AutoCAD, Modo, and Lightwave.  The real problem with SketchUp is that it is too easy.  Anyone who can turn on a computer can learn the basics of SketchUp in a day.  This is not the case with any of the other programs I have listed.  Because it is free and so easy to learn, people assume that you can easily create any shape with this tool, but this is simply not the case. The real lack of respect for SketchUp stems from the community of SketchUp modelers, the majority of whom are "hobbyists".  

Professional 3D modelers in the industry collectively say SketchUp is a joke, because if you attempt to use imported SketchUp geometry in a Maya scene, you will run into a long list of issues.  

It took me 2 years to iron out most of those issues.  The company I work for simply cannot afford 20 seats of Maya, so things get modeled in SketchUp, imported into Maya and then animated and rendered.      

Many times when someone attempt to model an advanced shape, they cut corners, or just do a sloppy job.  Anyone who has downloaded anything from 3D warehouse can attest to this.  

As with any 3D modeling program certain shapes require alot more work than others.  In Maya there are plenty of tools that allow to you model whatever shape you want.  These tools are sometimes available as plugins or extensions for SketchUp, but you really need to be a seasoned 3D modeler to really know what you are doing. When you try to model something organic or anything a bit more complicated than a massing model, then it really begins to show whether or not you know what you are doing.  

Most SketchUp modelers don't know what a "normal" is.  They don't know what an "ngon" is.  Alot of them probably don't even know what a polygon is, but with SketchUp they don't have to.  SketchUp hides all of these aspects to make the 3D modeling task more approachable, and easier to learn.  I met a guy who had been 3D modeling with SketchUp for 6 years and he had no idea what the "Purple side of the face" meant.  

If someone "knows" AutoCAD, odds are they paid to learn it, and not a small chunk of change either.  Nobody anywhere is paying that amount of money to learn SketchUp.  It just isn't happening, so the only real SketchUp Pros out there are the hobbyists who stuck with it, and those are few and far between.  

[JasonArtley]

Sketchup is easy. The interface isn't intimidating, and results can be seen quickly. It is also quite fun! As mentioned above, it's great for napkin level sketches, however I know a few fabricators that use it exclusively for sending designs off for laser cutting metal. 

I use it mainly in conjunction with Autodesk Infraworks. The 3D Warehouse in Sketchup has thousands of objects I can import to Infraworks. Sometimes I use it to make local features like water towers, bridges, etc so that my models look more realistic. It's an incredibly handy tool for that! 

The hatred towards it is simply jealousy/envy. Where many of us have spent many years learning "real" CAD, there are Sketchup masters that are still in elementary school.