CAD Managers

CAD Managers

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*Montano, Mike
Message 31 of 40 (828 Views)

Re:

04-03-2001 11:54 PM in reply to: kartz
I think it depends on what your designing, how many
projects your doing, how much

of a staff you have, and how well that staff is
trained. In my field ( electro-mechanical

packaging ) we would not want to bog down our
electrical,mechanical, and manufacturing engineers with fully detailed drawings
for manufacture. We want them

to come up with the concepts and drive our
draftsmen. This frees their time up to

concentrate on the big picture and future projects
instead of the small details. Our draftsmen are at

size=2>different levels of training some (2d) only and some(2d and
3d).

We our able to
utilize
all levels. (2d) guys do
schematics,block diagrams,pcb design,etc. (2d and

size=2>3d) guys
do the same plus mechanical
design. It would be nice if our engineers were able to

size=2>use the software. This way they could monitor the design better, plus
perfom fea as
needed.

 

Mike

 

 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

It seems to me, & I have no degree just a
lots of hard work & studying, that some of the engineers I've worked for
think that the only tools they need a calculator & a red pencil. It is
surprising using some of today's software just how much designing a "drafter"
can do

JoeB


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

Hi,

I am B.Sc. of mechanical engineering, and graduated on
cranes and conveyors. After my study I specialized in HVAC design.
I've
been using computer for four years now. Started with Quick basic, and now
use CAD
and GIS software:

 


size=2>Unigraphics
Pro/Engineer
Inventor
SolidWorks
Mechanical
Desktop
Steel Detailing System
STAAD Design Studio
MathCAD (I
consider it CAD, although it's not for
modeling)
AutoCAD
RhinoCeros
Nemetschek AllPlan
Architectural
Desktop
3D Studio VIZ
ArchiCAD
Arc/Info
ArcView (with Spatial
Analyst and 3D Analyst)
MapInfo
AutoCAD Map
CAD Overlay
Trimble
Survey Office
I won't mention other non-CAD software I use. I'm lecturing
engineers and architects to
use CAD and GIS software (mostly easy AutoCAD
and ArcView)

 

Now I work in a company for urban planing and architects
call me drafter.
Architects over here even dont know how to turn on a
computer (literaly) and don't want to know.
There are a few technicians
who make their plans. They use only ArcView (2D) and I made for them all the
customizations to improve their job. Also I take care about network
problems. When someone come to our company and asks an architect to print a
plan, he's not able to do it, even not to present his ideas if technician
who drew it is not here. Someone asked an architect: "Who actualy did
it?"
Let's get back to making projects. When I make a project, I make it
better, faster and cheaper when I do it myself, because I put my idea right
on 3D model, and at the same time make all the variations and analisys. I
think it's too much to expect from a technician to do this. If he can
understand and use all the software I do, then I will let him design
too.

 

Damir
Crnila
*Crnila, Damir
Message 32 of 40 (828 Views)

Re:

04-04-2001 12:08 AM in reply to: kartz
 


It is surprising using some of today's software
just how much designing a "drafter" can do

JoeB

 


That's right.

When I get a job to do from an architect or a (civil)
structural
engineer I can find faults, although I'm not of
that school.

This tells me: "Why to use my brain for something that
software solves. Let me use it for something it can't do?!"

 

Damir Crnila
*Crnila, Damir
Message 33 of 40 (828 Views)

Re:

04-05-2001 08:17 AM in reply to: kartz
Mike,

You're right.

My secundary school is electro-technical, so I know that
percentage of modeling is not so big here.

Similar is in HVAC, because more dificult is to solve
mathematical problems (heat and fluid transfer).

We have many schemes too, which don't require engineers.
Drafters can do this, especialy after I

created all the prototypes and blocks with atributes for this
purpose.

In architecture and mechanical engineering for production is
different.

 

Damir Crnila

 


style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">"Mike
Montano" <
href="mailto:mike.montano@sensytech.com">mike.montano@sensytech.com
>
wrote in message
href="news:68979E4E58656304452C68D176B8E562@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb">news:68979E4E58656304452C68D176B8E...
...


style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
face=Arial size=2>I think it depends on what your designing, how many projects
your doing, how much


style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
face=Arial size=2>of a staff you have, and how well that staff is trained. In my
field ( electro-mechanical


style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
face=Arial size=2>packaging ) we would not want to bog down our
electrical,mechanical, and manufacturing engineers with fully detailed drawings
for manufacture. We want them


style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
face=Arial size=2>to come up with the concepts and drive our draftsmen. This
frees their time up to


style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
face=Arial size=2>concentrate on the big picture and future projects instead of
the small details. Our draftsmen are at
different
levels of training some (2d) only and some(2d and 3d).


style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
face=Arial size=2>We
our able to utilize
all levels. (2d) guys do schematics,block
diagrams,pcb design,etc. (2d and
3d) guys
do the same plus mechanical design. It would be
nice if our engineers were able to
use the
software. This way they could monitor the design better, plus perfom fea as
needed.


style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
face=Arial size=2>
 


style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
face=Arial size=2>Mike


style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
face=Arial size=2>
 
Contributor
JmsRyan
Posts: 25
Registered: ‎09-25-2007
Message 34 of 40 (828 Views)

Re: Should Engineers Do Thier Own Drafting?

10-10-2007 10:02 AM in reply to: kartz
Hmmm...many engineers claim to be CAD-Saavy. Though I think back to pre-CAD when engineers would occassionaly do manual drafting. It was terrible. I've seen a lot of the same in CAD.
Just because you have the ability to open a file in AutoCAD or MicroStation does not give you any talent (though many CAD drafter now lack true drafting abilities).
Many forget that producing clear, concise, accurate drawings is the goal. Slapping a note somewhere - running leaders every which way - this just isn't it.
If an engineer has spent time producing final products (most have not), CAD should be their design tool.
*CivilEITGuy
Message 35 of 40 (828 Views)

Re: Should Engineers Do Thier Own Drafting?

10-11-2007 08:14 PM in reply to: kartz
Land Desktop is an Engineers Calculator IMO.

What about the drafter with board experience (ie leroy, mylar, spit
erasures) that learned cadd, went to school at night to get BS, then EIT,
that can use LDT to design. When that type of engineer designs, the
drafting goes along with it and it eliminates a job. Like years ago when
most engineers would red up a design on a blueprint and drafters would take
over.

Flip the page, LDT and/or C3D can be dangerous in the hands of cadd person.
Now, the experienced cadd tech, that progressed thu experience that didn't
go to school but learned the ins and outs of LDT and is the whiz at C3D is
the lightning bolt most companies desire.

Flip another page. Not all caddtechs are good drafters. It takes years IMO
to learn that technique.

As far as engineers slapping leaders and notes on the plans.....naaaaaaaaa
shouldn't happen. That's expensive slapping when you can get an entry level
tech at a 1/3 the cost.

As far as the entire civil engineering industry is concerned, I feel
quality is being ignored and guantity is at the forefront. I review dozens
of land development plans for muncipalities and honest to petes, when I see
sheets without match lines and words just cut off at a viewport and continue
on the next sheet just makes me shake my head. Its all about getting the
work done cheap. The PM's low ball the RFP's and slap out something.


wrote in message news:5745784@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hmmm...many engineers claim to be CAD-Saavy. Though I think back to pre-CAD
when engineers would occassionaly do manual drafting. It was terrible.
I've seen a lot of the same in CAD.
Just because you have the ability to open a file in AutoCAD or MicroStation
does not give you any talent (though many CAD drafter now lack true drafting
abilities).
Many forget that producing clear, concise, accurate drawings is the goal.
Slapping a note somewhere - running leaders every which way - this just
isn't it.
If an engineer has spent time producing final products (most have not), CAD
should be their design tool.
Distinguished Contributor
morrolan
Posts: 109
Registered: ‎07-25-2006
Message 36 of 40 (828 Views)

Re: Should Engineers Do Thier Own Drafting?

10-12-2007 10:26 AM in reply to: kartz
An interesting topic, and one without a 'final' answer. Much will depend on the organization, its culture, size, diversity of projects and disciplines, and the available career paths.

However, I spent a number of years with a very large environmental engineering firm, (water & wastewater core business), and one of the departments staffed very few drafters, no or designers, and expected the PE & EIT staff to do all their drafting. the CAD (and drafting ) quality of the documents produced by that groups was typically far less than the quality produced from other departments that utilized an engineer, designer, and drafter combination. A lot of 'one-off' drawings, that were inconsistent with the rest of the company's production.

their billings to clients were much higher, and the numbers looked good to senior management. (Paying senior PE wages and billing a multiplier to that for general notes will do that...)

It's not that the PEs in that group were incompetent by any means, but that (a) they lacked training, were never offered substantive training, and (b) were so focused on 'this job' and 'this drawing' that the requirement of producing a coherent set of plans from multiple departments that was consistent with the last thirty sets of plans was not in their
scope.

the other fundamental flaw was based on culture and career paths. An EIT who was brought in and asked to draft, and learn design, was focused on his career path (get his PE license and get promoted). After that, the career path directed him towards either technical specialization or project management and eventual heavy client interaction and senior management role.

the direct result of that was (and still is ) institutionalized mediocrity. By the time an EIT or PE had learned enough about production skills to be halfway competent with producing a set of drawings in CAD, she was focused on moving ahead, and the next new grad was dropped into the pot, and started to develop enough capability to be halfway competent.


your mileage may vary, but if a PE is more productive doing drafting than engineering, something just might be wrong with the organization or the PE
*Charlie Peil
Message 37 of 40 (828 Views)

Re: Should Engineers Do Thier Own Drafting?

10-12-2007 12:11 PM in reply to: kartz
This agrees with my experience. I've been with this firm for 18 years
and the flow of both architects and engineers has been from; Lots of
drafting (usually badly) to less drafting (still badly but usually
better) to no drafting at all.

Running through a quick list of our engineers and architects:

Structural engineers: 4 registered, 1 EIT. None draft.

Mechanical engineers: 3 registered, 1 EIT. The EIT and one engineer draft.

Civil engineers: 7 registered, 3 EIT. The EITs draft. Three of the
registered engineers use CAD occasionally but no production work.

Architects: 3 registered, 1 AIT. One registered and the AIT use CAD,
neither one in a production manner. (Letting the other two architects
use CAD would be a recipe for disaster.)

Our engineers and architects handle client relations, project management
and work with the drafters and designers who actually create the
construction documents. Our designers, especially the civil, mechanical
and electrical designers, do a lot of the basic engineering during the
drafting, all under supervision, of course. We have very few "drafters"
who are not capable of doing design work and they are moved as quickly
as possible into the design roll.

Charlie
Contributor
JmsRyan
Posts: 25
Registered: ‎09-25-2007
Message 38 of 40 (828 Views)

Re: Should Engineers Do Thier Own Drafting?

10-12-2007 01:11 PM in reply to: kartz
I agree...having started in the 70's as a surveyor, then (manual) drafter - I have a twisted look on most engineers. Most seem to lack practical experience.
Though, a few years ago I hired a tech who completed CAD training at a tech school. Some of the training was "civil." Though when he was exposed to real projects, he found himself struggling. He was a very quick learner, though. He ended-up being a big asset. He wondered if he spent too much for the classes - but, it did help him get his foot in the door.
Most engineers have not done (and don't want to do) surveying, drafting, running bluelines, etc.. There are those that will tell you that they didn't go to college for that (I'll contain my thoughts here).
Its a weird mix...however, I believe CAD production work should be completed by those that understand what the final product should look like, what the contractor needs (and make it clear), and take ownership/pride. Civil3d/LDD/GeoPak should be an engineer's design aid.

Okay...I'm done....really...
Active Contributor
sue_lundergan
Posts: 38
Registered: ‎12-05-2003
Message 39 of 40 (828 Views)

Re: Should Engineers Do Thier Own Drafting?

10-16-2007 02:20 PM in reply to: kartz
Should Engineers Do Their Own Drafting?

With very few exceptions, most certainly NOT!
Same thing goes for Project Managers.
New Member
lylevance
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎07-08-2010
Message 40 of 40 (695 Views)

Re: Should Engineers Do Thier Own Drafting?

08-11-2013 05:12 PM in reply to: kartz
I believe that an engineer/designer that is skilled with the software can be far more efficient than an engineer with no CAD skills and a drafts person providing support. The trend will be for software to incorporate more design tools while at the same time becoming more accessible to the novice drafter.
In the not-too-distant future most construction documents will be incidental to the creation of a BIM model. The work flow will requie skilled designers and engineers... No position for a draftsman.
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