Server Backup

[bthatcher]

We used to have a simple system where a .BAT file would 'xcopy' everything to alternating removable drives. Switch the drive everyday and bring it home, if the office burned down we would have everything up to the day before. We do not have an archive system. Now we have a Raid5 setup and we use this Vreitas backup software. It works occasionally at best. excluding a tape system because of the cost, what do people use to backup their server? Thank you.

[Anonymous]

We use a tape system with Veritas.

What is the cost of re-creating everything on your server from scratch?

From my experience, it is not a question of IF...but WHEN will a disaster
happen to your data?

We do nightly backup to a backup server, and a nightly incremental tape
backup(2 week tape rotation), a weekly full tape backup(monthly tape
rotation), and a monthly archival tape backup.


wrote in message news:5139201@discussion.autodesk.com...
We used to have a simple system where a .BAT file would 'xcopy' everything
to alternating removable drives. Switch the drive everyday and bring it
home, if the office burned down we would have everything up to the day
before. We do not have an archive system. Now we have a Raid5 setup and we
use this Vreitas backup software. It works occasionally at best. excluding a
tape system because of the cost, what do people use to backup their server?
Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Hey bthatcher;

Two of these might suit your needs;
http://tinyurl.com/3v686

One to take offsite daily, the other onsite - preparatory to being loaded
for offsite status as the backup.

Much faster than having to access the tape for retrieval of the proper file.

I've used the Veritas system before, so I can remember the time necessary.

HTH

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
----------------------------------------------------------
LDT-2K4
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ 2.2GHz
XPPro 32bit SP2
1GB RAM
Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 128MB
WD 36GB Raptor



"Terry Scanlon" wrote in message
news:5139225@discussion.autodesk.com...
We use a tape system with Veritas.

What is the cost of re-creating everything on your server from scratch?

From my experience, it is not a question of IF...but WHEN will a disaster
happen to your data?

We do nightly backup to a backup server, and a nightly incremental tape
backup(2 week tape rotation), a weekly full tape backup(monthly tape
rotation), and a monthly archival tape backup.


wrote in message news:5139201@discussion.autodesk.com...
We used to have a simple system where a .BAT file would 'xcopy' everything
to alternating removable drives. Switch the drive everyday and bring it
home, if the office burned down we would have everything up to the day
before. We do not have an archive system. Now we have a Raid5 setup and we
use this Vreitas backup software. It works occasionally at best. excluding a
tape system because of the cost, what do people use to backup their server?
Thank you.

[Anonymous]

bthatcher wrote:
> We used to have a simple system where a .BAT file would 'xcopy' everything to alternating removable drives. Switch the drive everyday and bring it home, if the office burned down we would have everything up to the day before. We do not have an archive system. Now we have a Raid5 setup and we use this Vreitas backup software. It works occasionally at best. excluding a tape system because of the cost, what do people use to backup their server? Thank you.

Hey Bryan,
Are you the IT guy over there at F-R or do you have someone outside
doing it? I see your logo on Derek's site. Are you still using him?
We still use him and he is doing remote backups. All our data gets
backed up to a server off site every night.

[Anonymous]

Hey Don,

Have you used these before.

After 7 years of Veritas I'm fed up. I'm shopping for a new server w/ backup
solution.

They claim up to 480 MB/s. That's pretty impressive compared to 3 MB/s for a
SCSI tape.

John

[Anonymous]

bthatcher <> wrote in news:5139201@discussion.autodesk.com:

> We used to have a simple system where a .BAT file would 'xcopy'
> everything to alternating removable drives. Switch the drive everyday
> and bring it home, if the office burned down we would have everything
> up to the day before. We do not have an archive system. Now we have a
> Raid5 setup and we use this Vreitas backup software. It works
> occasionally at best. excluding a tape system because of the cost,
> what do people use to backup their server? Thank you.

We do nightly incremental to a NAS using Veritas, monthly full backups to
tape and to NAS. Works like a champ. Tapes can be a pain, but just clean
the drive once a month and you shouldn't have too much problem. We did
have our server crash a couple years ago, we where lucky that we had a
server laying around ready to be deployed to a different office, we where
back up in a couple hours once we got the new server.

--
Keith


If you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

[Anonymous]

What do you mean by "It works occasionally at best"? We use Veritas sent to
removable HD's that leap-frog each other when swapped every week. Full
weekly backup, with daily incremental ones.

John

wrote in message news:5139201@discussion.autodesk.com...
We used to have a simple system where a .BAT file would 'xcopy' everything
to alternating removable drives. Switch the drive everyday and bring it
home, if the office burned down we would have everything up to the day
before. We do not have an archive system. Now we have a Raid5 setup and we
use this Vreitas backup software. It works occasionally at best. excluding a
tape system because of the cost, what do people use to backup their server?
Thank you.

[Anonymous]

We also use veritas and don't have any trouble with it. The trouble we have
is with the multi tape changer that seems to break every 4-6 months. We are
looking to boost our storage capacity to a terabyte and therefore are
looking at new, more efficiant ways of backing up our data. Is anyone
backing up this much data?


"John Schmidt" wrote in message
news:5139582@discussion.autodesk.com...
What do you mean by "It works occasionally at best"? We use Veritas sent to
removable HD's that leap-frog each other when swapped every week. Full
weekly backup, with daily incremental ones.

John

wrote in message news:5139201@discussion.autodesk.com...
We used to have a simple system where a .BAT file would 'xcopy' everything
to alternating removable drives. Switch the drive everyday and bring it
home, if the office burned down we would have everything up to the day
before. We do not have an archive system. Now we have a Raid5 setup and we
use this Vreitas backup software. It works occasionally at best. excluding a
tape system because of the cost, what do people use to backup their server?
Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Shouldn't those MB's be GB's?

http://tinyurl.com/3v686

As far as being a "repeat" customer...

Not yet - but after I went to their site this AM, I received a call from one
of their staff. I did enter my name and number in a "give-away" so I should
have expected that. 🙂 But I didn't mind - see below.

He heard I would greatly appreciate my name being on their list of
customers.

After accessing the "proper" folder from a tape taking maybe 45 minutes due
to the drive/tape speed - to me it's a no-brainer, John.

Plug one of their drives in, and your access time is proportionate to the
speed of the connecting cable - not a tape drive.

HTH

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
----------------------------------------------------------
LDT-2K4
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ 2.2GHz
XPPro 32bit SP2
1GB RAM
Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 128MB
WD 36GB Raptor



"John Mayo" wrote in message
news:5139526@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hey Don,

Have you used these before.

After 7 years of Veritas I'm fed up. I'm shopping for a new server w/ backup
solution.

They claim up to 480 MB/s. That's pretty impressive compared to 3 MB/s for a
SCSI tape.

John

[Anonymous]

I gave up on tape for that much data. Right now, our main backup is close to
200gig on 300gig drives. It still takes too long at 100mbit - I'm planning
on getting a 1gig switch and netcards for just this reason.

John

"John B" wrote in message
news:5139590@discussion.autodesk.com...
We also use veritas and don't have any trouble with it. The trouble we have
is with the multi tape changer that seems to break every 4-6 months. We are
looking to boost our storage capacity to a terabyte and therefore are
looking at new, more efficiant ways of backing up our data. Is anyone
backing up this much data?


"John Schmidt" wrote in message
news:5139582@discussion.autodesk.com...
What do you mean by "It works occasionally at best"? We use Veritas sent to
removable HD's that leap-frog each other when swapped every week. Full
weekly backup, with daily incremental ones.

John

wrote in message news:5139201@discussion.autodesk.com...
We used to have a simple system where a .BAT file would 'xcopy' everything
to alternating removable drives. Switch the drive everyday and bring it
home, if the office burned down we would have everything up to the day
before. We do not have an archive system. Now we have a Raid5 setup and we
use this Vreitas backup software. It works occasionally at best. excluding a
tape system because of the cost, what do people use to backup their server?
Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Right now we are backing up about 150 gigs(architectural files) to tape and
another almost 300 gigs(graphic files) to alternating external HDD's. We're
thinking about a solution to get all of the backup to one system. Our IT co.
says that there is a single tape system that will do it all, but it is kinda
spendy.


"John Schmidt" wrote in message
news:5139624@discussion.autodesk.com...
I gave up on tape for that much data. Right now, our main backup is close to
200gig on 300gig drives. It still takes too long at 100mbit - I'm planning
on getting a 1gig switch and netcards for just this reason.

John

"John B" wrote in message
news:5139590@discussion.autodesk.com...
We also use veritas and don't have any trouble with it. The trouble we have
is with the multi tape changer that seems to break every 4-6 months. We are
looking to boost our storage capacity to a terabyte and therefore are
looking at new, more efficiant ways of backing up our data. Is anyone
backing up this much data?


"John Schmidt" wrote in message
news:5139582@discussion.autodesk.com...
What do you mean by "It works occasionally at best"? We use Veritas sent to
removable HD's that leap-frog each other when swapped every week. Full
weekly backup, with daily incremental ones.

John

wrote in message news:5139201@discussion.autodesk.com...
We used to have a simple system where a .BAT file would 'xcopy' everything
to alternating removable drives. Switch the drive everyday and bring it
home, if the office burned down we would have everything up to the day
before. We do not have an archive system. Now we have a Raid5 setup and we
use this Vreitas backup software. It works occasionally at best. excluding a
tape system because of the cost, what do people use to backup their server?
Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Hey John B;

Ask your IT staff to check these folks out;
http://tinyurl.com/3v686

Their drives (not tapes with the known issues current to them) will handle
500GB.
http://tinyurl.com/7g7e4
Data Transfer: Up to 480 Mb/s
So on a slow period (with a couple of Users still working on Projects) it
might take 20 minutes for all 500GB.

And then there's this portion of their product;
Warranty: 3 years from date of purchase

How long is a tape's warranty? And how many tapes would you go through
during the same time period? Most times I've heard, they recommend replacing
them after 12 months of use.

HTH

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
----------------------------------------------------------
LDT-2K4
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ 2.2GHz
XPPro 32bit SP2
1GB RAM
Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 128MB
WD 36GB Raptor



"John B" wrote in message
news:5139633@discussion.autodesk.com...
Right now we are backing up about 150 gigs(architectural files) to tape and
another almost 300 gigs(graphic files) to alternating external HDD's. We're
thinking about a solution to get all of the backup to one system. Our IT co.
says that there is a single tape system that will do it all, but it is kinda
spendy.


"John Schmidt" wrote in message
news:5139624@discussion.autodesk.com...
I gave up on tape for that much data. Right now, our main backup is close to
200gig on 300gig drives. It still takes too long at 100mbit - I'm planning
on getting a 1gig switch and netcards for just this reason.

John

"John B" wrote in message
news:5139590@discussion.autodesk.com...
We also use veritas and don't have any trouble with it. The trouble we have
is with the multi tape changer that seems to break every 4-6 months. We are
looking to boost our storage capacity to a terabyte and therefore are
looking at new, more efficiant ways of backing up our data. Is anyone
backing up this much data?


"John Schmidt" wrote in message
news:5139582@discussion.autodesk.com...
What do you mean by "It works occasionally at best"? We use Veritas sent to
removable HD's that leap-frog each other when swapped every week. Full
weekly backup, with daily incremental ones.

John

wrote in message news:5139201@discussion.autodesk.com...
We used to have a simple system where a .BAT file would 'xcopy' everything
to alternating removable drives. Switch the drive everyday and bring it
home, if the office burned down we would have everything up to the day
before. We do not have an archive system. Now we have a Raid5 setup and we
use this Vreitas backup software. It works occasionally at best. excluding a
tape system because of the cost, what do people use to backup their server?
Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Don't know where your info on tape life came from but I've been reading it's longer than burned CD's.
We use Veritas and tape drives in our offices and while if you have to restore something not in the current database it can take a while to inventory datasets
As with most other tape users we run incremental's daily, weekly offsite sets and monthly archive sets.
Currently getting around 3TB on the weekly's. at the home office.
Real problem with tape backup is you can never get rid of the hardware or the software versions that the tapes were written with. BIG pain in the *ss.
When the jobs are closed we burn them to dvd for easy access, and groom them off the servers.
Nobody's backup system is perfect but you do what you can do. I mean crap you can pay ALOT of money and have your servers mirrored every night to and offsight location, but what if someone wants a copy of a 6 year old project?
Or how bout that e-mail you deleted 2 years ago?
Backup, IT's nightmare.
1.5 beers to compose this rant.

John P.

[Anonymous]

Hey John;

The Exabyte website has a PDF file that lists the DDS lifespan as a maximum
of 100 backups.
http://tinyurl.com/rpwcs

I didn't find the VXA-2 lifespan.

On that same site you'll find their transfer speed (current/future) and
current/future capacities.

I'm still a fan of the CMS system, though now it seems that I'll need to do
some more research as to why.

Thanks for sharing - and keeping me from going off the "deep end". 🙂

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
----------------------------------------------------------
LDT-2K4
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ 2.2GHz
XPPro 32bit SP2
1GB RAM
Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 128MB
WD 36GB Raptor



wrote in message news:5139748@discussion.autodesk.com...
Don't know where your info on tape life came from but I've been reading it's
longer than burned CD's.
We use Veritas and tape drives in our offices and while if you have to
restore something not in the current database it can take a while to
inventory datasets
As with most other tape users we run incremental's daily, weekly offsite
sets and monthly archive sets.
Currently getting around 3TB on the weekly's. at the home office.
Real problem with tape backup is you can never get rid of the hardware or
the software versions that the tapes were written with. BIG pain in the *ss.
When the jobs are closed we burn them to dvd for easy access, and groom them
off the servers.
Nobody's backup system is perfect but you do what you can do. I mean crap
you can pay ALOT of money and have your servers mirrored every night to and
offsight location, but what if someone wants a copy of a 6 year old project?
Or how bout that e-mail you deleted 2 years ago?
Backup, IT's nightmare.
1.5 beers to compose this rant.

John P.

[Anonymous]

John B. and John S.,

What version are you guys on. I had issues w/ V7 & 8.

John M.

[Anonymous]

John Mayo wrote in news:5140261
@discussion.autodesk.com:

> John B. and John S.,
>
> What version are you guys on. I had issues w/ V7 & 8.
>
> John M.

Not John B or John S, but we got v9 and no problems at all.

--
Keith


If you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

[Anonymous]

Thanks Keith.

[Anonymous]

Version 9 here.

John S.

"John Mayo" wrote in message
news:5140261@discussion.autodesk.com...
John B. and John S.,

What version are you guys on. I had issues w/ V7 & 8.

John M.

[Anonymous]

Our Exabyte tapes seem to have a 1-2 year life span. Our carousel tape
backup requires I replace a new cassette every couple of months due to
tape failure.

It is possible other tape backup manufacturers have better quality
control, but over the years all of the tapes I have ever used have been
prone to failure.

Kevin

Don Reichle wrote:
> Hey John;
>
> The Exabyte website has a PDF file that lists the DDS lifespan as a maximum
> of 100 backups.
> http://tinyurl.com/rpwcs
>
> I didn't find the VXA-2 lifespan.
>
> On that same site you'll find their transfer speed (current/future) and
> current/future capacities.
>
> I'm still a fan of the CMS system, though now it seems that I'll need to do
> some more research as to why.
>
> Thanks for sharing - and keeping me from going off the "deep end". 🙂
>

[Anonymous]

We use Veritas along with tapes nightly. The tapes are stored in a vault in
the basement, 12" concrete walls. We have tapes for every day of the week,
weekly tapes, and monthly tapes. Weekly full backups, daily incremental
ones.

We also mirror the data from the server to our backup server at night, for a
secondary backup method in case of tape failure.
--
David Plotts
IT Manager
AES ArchiTech


wrote in message news:5139201@discussion.autodesk.com...
We used to have a simple system where a .BAT file would 'xcopy' everything
to alternating removable drives. Switch the drive everyday and bring it
home, if the office burned down we would have everything up to the day
before. We do not have an archive system. Now we have a Raid5 setup and we
use this Vreitas backup software. It works occasionally at best. excluding a
tape system because of the cost, what do people use to backup their server?
Thank you.