Reselling AutoCAD licenses

[pendean]

United States Supreme Court rules in Autodesk's favor http://howardrice.com/7419

[steve216586]

- Soon after that, low and behold, you can't save back down to older versions due to "improvements in the format" (Think REVIT et all).

This will be the downfall of AutoCAD. Other CAD programs operate like this, (as far as not being able to work in a previous version) but they upgrade your license for free each year, or term of upgrade.  They do not require purchasing a new license.

Also, a comment about big corps not misusing AutoCAD licenses: I have yet to know of one "Big" corp that does not circumvent the licensing EULA of AutoDesk to achieve more seats than licenses. I believe the small, two or three seat companies,or small Arch firms, are probably a better paying customer to AutoDesk than the larger corps.

[TravisNave]

What are you talking about?

[steve216586]

I was refering to pendean's comment about "shortly AutoDesk will require a renewal each year and shortly after that, users won't have the ability to save back to an earlier version." As an example, from 2016 version to 2004 version.

I work with Geomagic and the current version can open old drawings but once you work on them, you can't open it in a previous version. An error message appears which tells you to download the current version. If you have a license, this is free until the end of the year. At that time you pay your yearly renewal fee of approx $300. (This scenerio just happened to me.)

IMHO, If AutoDesk goes to this same format and doesn't lower it's yearly subscription fee to under $1000 it will be the demise of the platform. And with just a transfer fee now of $1000, I don't see a huge price decrease happening. Companies will buy cheaper CAD software and convert their .dwg archives into another format.

[pendean]

They do it now quite successfully in REVIT now (the future of the AEC industry, AutoCAD is fading) and INVENTOR (the future of MECH industry, AutoCAD is fading).

You can move today to other CAD software; do you really need Autodesk to push you first? It's a free user/customer market, CheapoCAD3000 sales show it to be a healthy market. Move if you wish or want anytime, pointless rants on user forums isn't going to change Autodesk's paths whatever they may be in the future 🙂

[steve216586]

I'm not so sure they are that successful with Inventor. I do not do anything concerning AEC so Revit may be different, but I doubt it. They gave/give Inventor away in packages bundled with Mechanical and Vanilla. Maybe ADesk had that drug dealer mentality..."If you give it away for free and let them get hooked, then they will buy it in the future." However, to simply reply to someone making a cost comparison vs usage, observation, to simply go away, is sidestepping on the verge of "take my ball and go home" mentality.

Other CAD software is not "CheapoCAD3000". It costs less than AutoCAD, but AutoCAD is not the industry standard of pricing, if that was your purpose to phrase it that way. I wouldn't put Geomagic, SolidWorks, Catia, SolidEdge, or Creo (Pro-E) in the same category as "CheapoCAD" Microsoft Visio. They are industry standard software used outside of the Autodesk world. Sometimes exclusively because Mechanical doesn't perform as desired and Inventor is still years behind the 3D modeling pioneers.

I do believe if Autodesk wants to be competitive and retain the market share they have, they will have to lower pricing if and when, they go to a yearly renewal and short term back support for their products marketing strategy model. The main attraction now is AutoCAD 2000 works with 2015 and vice versa. You aren't "required" to upgrade every year, as with other CAD programs.

IMHO, If you can't see that, then you may have never used or been required to use, other software to perform your job and have a shallow view of what other companies are doing outside of the AutoCAD world.

[steve216586]

BTW, I have no interest in what software is used by my company. I use what they supply. I don't see AutoDesk pushing me away from their products unless they out price themselves and the higher powers deem it too costly to continue using it. I was merely pointing to the fact that most companies will deem this to be true if AutoDesk keeps prices in the $4000-$7000 range for yearly renewals for a product which is not backwards AND forwards compatible as it is today.

[TravisNave]

Clearly you haven't licensed any other software. My licenses for server
backups dwarf Autodesk prices. Inventor and Revit are not Word and Excel.

[steve216586]

C'mon travis!

"Clearly you haven't licensed any other software. My licenses for server
backups dwarf Autodesk prices. Inventor and Revit are not Word and Excel."

That is an apples to oranges comparison. In both instances.

You know as well a I do that AutCAD and MicroStation are near the top of any list and can charge what they do for three reasons.

1. A 2000 product is just as good as a 2015 product.

2. The licenses don't expire. 

3. They were on the ground floor in CAD history. (Not to mention most DOTs exclusively use MicroStation.)

People all across the world are still using 2007 AutoCAD on Win7 computers. If licenses do expire as pendean suggested, and you won't be able to "SAVE-DOWN", then AutoDesk will have to come down in pricing to everyone else. That is all I'm saying. This is my opinion and you really can't change that by simply saying,"You're wrong." That type of response only suggests that your opinion differs but is not 100% either. The only thing which will change my mind, is the future.

If and when AutoDesk switch licensing and "save-down" marketing models and still keeps pricing the same, without suffering, then my mind will be changed. I'll gladly come back and praise you for your ESP abilities and allow you to say. "I told you so."

[dgorsman]

There is a big downside to inter-version compatibility.  In order for that to work there is a huge up-front design requirement as once the system is in place, it has to be set in stone.  It can't be extended beyond what it was planned for, no matter how badly the users want it.  It can also block compatibility with new oeprating system releases, since they may no longer support the methods used to implement the framework.

Inter-version compatibility is a good thing, but its not all sunshine and roses.  At some point it will *have* to be broken, and leaving it for a substantial length of time increases the risk of being unable to easily migrate existing content over.

[pendean]

I have to agree: between server apps, accounting apps, and half a dozen other software licensing we all endure running a business, Autodesk subscription fees really pale in comparison.

I think as an employee who only works with what is given to them instead of the person in charge may be clouding your many statements.

R2000 is just fine: so is Windows 95/98/NT4. If that's what you need to do to function go for it. There is no need for everyone else to carry you along with them into future versions although to date Autodesk has admirably stuck to that for the DWG and DXF formats. Kind of renders your posts pointless really, doesn't it.

[steve216586]

"-As soon as Autodesk has completely switched to Sibscription-only purchases with AutoCAD (starts Feb 2015), we will suddenly be presented with all new DWG format every year (Think REVIT et al from Autodesk)
- Soon after that, low and behold, you can't save back down to older versions due to "improvements in the format" (Think REVIT et all).
- Issue of reselling old versions by end users becomes irrelevant: useless software."

You're the one who made these statements as a "knowledgeable guess". Are they substantiated in merit or did you do it just to throw a scare tactic out there? I usually trust your information for what it's worth because you have usually had prior knowledge of up coming AutoDesk changes and events. Now I'm not so sure.

I made one statement as to what I "thought" would come to fruition if AutDesk didn't follow the lead as other CAD software have done through their marketing models. Now all of a sudden I'm the speculator whom is pintching pennies? I'm the one under valuing other software which has nothing to do with CAD. I'm the one who doesn't understand the dynamics of running a company or department. Sometimes people, as myself, choose to leave those positions and hand the responsibilities to the young and eager, grinding their way to the top. That doesn't mean I forgot all management skills over night.

I don't think I will be alone if the changes, you presented, really happen. $0.02

BTW, if the AutoCAD licensing is so cheap, why, as I stated in my original post, do departmental heads use the desktop/laptop loophole to increase the number of users per license, so they are able to show a reduction in budget costs?I would think ten or twelve licenses would be trivial compared to other costs in the department. Hmmm?

[pendean]

Man up and properly quote me, partial quotes are childish:
"...Pure guess on my part:.."

A Guess is a Guess. Look it up in any dictionary you trust.

And theft is theft, whether you call it a loophole or something else: you can't price morals into theives. You're raised to be honest or not. End of that topic.

What else do you want to chat about? Friday afternoons are good for this stuff 🙂

[steve216586]

What are you talking about? Partial quotes? I copy and pasted it.

edit: Oh I see. You are compaining becasue I called it a "knowledgeable" guess. Maybe I shouldn't have said that since it indicates that you actually put some mental effort into what you said. Is that what you are saying? You really didn't put any mental effort into your statements, and I offended you?

It is a loophole. AutoDesk readily allows it to happen, therefore it can't be a theft or they wouldn't knowingly allow it. You do actually have to talk to someone to get an authorization code and explain to them why you need a second one you know, right? Sometimes you don't even have to explain. The representative will just eail another code. BTW, I never said it was legal only that it was an allowable circumvention. Maybe you should stop misquoting others yourself.

[pendean]

Ha! I love it: sadly I'm going to stop playing your game now. Catch you on the othe forums back on support topics. Enjoy your weekend, I know I will enjoy mine.
.

[gilburrows.mk]

Surely if a company sells an item in a foreign country it has to abide by their rules and regulations and not by what prevails in the USA?

[rkmcswain]

steve216586 wrote:

IMHO, If AutoDesk goes to this same format and doesn't lower it's yearly subscription fee to under $1000 it will be the demise of the platform. And with just a transfer fee now of $1000, I don't see a huge price decrease happening. Companies will buy cheaper CAD software and convert their .dwg archives into another format.

Well, we are here, 3-1/2 years later. Everything is rental now. No more "subscription", as in maintenance. Now "subscription" is simply rental.

You pay, you play.

You don't pay, software stops working.

I suppose in another 3-1/2 years, we will have a better picture of how this has played out. I see a lot of players simply going along with the Autodesk's game for now.