plotters

[miketibbets]

I am currently in the process of collecting quotes and specs for a new plotter/copier system for our shop. Considering specifically the KIP 3000 or the OCE TDS-320 systems. Anybody have any experience with either of these? Any input or other recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[joeself]

Thursday I have a KIP 3000 coming in. I will give it a test and report back.

I will miss the color. We still have an HP 800 for that, but its in the office and I am on a job site.

Joe

[Anonymous]

miketibbets wrote:
> I am currently in the process of collecting quotes and specs for a
> new plotter/copier system for our shop. Considering specifically the
> KIP 3000 or the OCE TDS-320 systems. Anybody have any experience with
> either of these? Any input or other recommendations would be
> appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Having used Xerox, KIP, and OCE large format plotters, my experiences
have been very favorable with OCE and very unfavorable with Xerox and
KIP. The OCE wasn't just better, it was light-years better.

--
Jason Hickey

http://beneaththelines.blogspot.com

[Anonymous]

>>The OCE wasn't just better, it was light-years better.

In what respect?



"Jason Hickey" wrote in message
news:5132632@discussion.autodesk.com...
miketibbets wrote:
> I am currently in the process of collecting quotes and specs for a
> new plotter/copier system for our shop. Considering specifically the
> KIP 3000 or the OCE TDS-320 systems. Anybody have any experience with
> either of these? Any input or other recommendations would be
> appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Having used Xerox, KIP, and OCE large format plotters, my experiences
have been very favorable with OCE and very unfavorable with Xerox and
KIP. The OCE wasn't just better, it was light-years better.

--
Jason Hickey

http://beneaththelines.blogspot.com

[Anonymous]

We got a KIP 3000 in December and have been printing a lot with it. We
upgraded our KIP 2000 to get a scanner and plotter in one unit so that it
wouldn't take up as much room. I really like the small footprint of the KIP
3000. It prints very nice prints. My one main complaint is that the internal
stacker doesn't do a real good job stacking smaller sheets. We do quite a
few 12 x 18 prints and it doesn't stack them they end up out of order. I'm
sure you could put a stacker on the back of the machine, which we had on our
KIP 2000 but that defeats the purpose of the smaller footprint. It stacks
full size sheets and larger just fine. The touchscreen is very easy to
operate. The electronic user guides included on the plotter are very easy to
use and explain how clear jams, change toner, & add paper very well, not
that it's all the difficult to figure out but for some of the users it's
helpful.

Kevin


wrote in message news:5132305@discussion.autodesk.com...
I am currently in the process of collecting quotes and specs for a new
plotter/copier system for our shop. Considering specifically the KIP 3000 or
the OCE TDS-320 systems. Anybody have any experience with either of these?
Any input or other recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Anonymous]

miketibbets <> wrote in news:5132305@discussion.autodesk.com:

> I am currently in the process of collecting quotes and specs for a new
> plotter/copier system for our shop. Considering specifically the KIP
> 3000 or the OCE TDS-320 systems. Anybody have any experience with
> either of these? Any input or other recommendations would be
> appreciated. Thanks in advance.

We've got a Oce TDS 400, other than a MB go out in one of the controllers,
not a problem at all, light years better than the 9400 we had before it.

--
Keith


If you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

[Anonymous]

FG wrote:
>>> The OCE wasn't just better, it was light-years better.
>
> In what respect?

Let's see...

Maintenance - the KIP seemed to break down on a monthly (or bi-weekly)
basis. The OCE didn't require service nearly as much.

Print quality - pretty comparable, but the OCE had a slight edge there

Environmentally Friendly - stayed in "sleep" mode until you were
printing, seconds of warm-up time compared to minutes with the KIP, used
much less power, was much quieter, put out much less heat.

Better software - the software seemed to be built for the plotter, not
as an afterthought as the KIP software was. The "print processor" on
the KIP was a computer inside the plotter itself, and the processing
software jammed up more times than I could count. I had to VPN in from
my workstation to clear the jams. That process went into Windows
Explorer and deleting everything in a directory, which would lose
everything in the queue. I'd have 50 users locked up, then when I
cleared it, all their plot jobs were gone. The OCE software (which is
on the one and only controller) just skipped over prints that it
couldn't process.

We even got more warm fuzzies from the OCE dealer, for whatever that's
worth.

--
Jason Hickey

http://beneaththelines.blogspot.com

[Anonymous]

Which Model # of the KIP - 2000?

I heard that the 4000 was the one we should've got. And that was from the
maintenance folks sent to our site on about a 6 week basis.

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
----------------------------------------------------------
LDT-2K4
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ 2.2GHz
XPPro 32bit SP2
1GB RAM
Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 128MB
WD 36GB Raptor



"Jason Hickey" wrote in message
news:5132891@discussion.autodesk.com...
FG wrote:
>>> The OCE wasn't just better, it was light-years better.
>
> In what respect?

Let's see...

Maintenance - the KIP seemed to break down on a monthly (or bi-weekly)
basis. The OCE didn't require service nearly as much.

Print quality - pretty comparable, but the OCE had a slight edge there

Environmentally Friendly - stayed in "sleep" mode until you were
printing, seconds of warm-up time compared to minutes with the KIP, used
much less power, was much quieter, put out much less heat.

Better software - the software seemed to be built for the plotter, not
as an afterthought as the KIP software was. The "print processor" on
the KIP was a computer inside the plotter itself, and the processing
software jammed up more times than I could count. I had to VPN in from
my workstation to clear the jams. That process went into Windows
Explorer and deleting everything in a directory, which would lose
everything in the queue. I'd have 50 users locked up, then when I
cleared it, all their plot jobs were gone. The OCE software (which is
on the one and only controller) just skipped over prints that it
couldn't process.

We even got more warm fuzzies from the OCE dealer, for whatever that's
worth.

--
Jason Hickey

http://beneaththelines.blogspot.com

[Anonymous]

Don Reichle wrote:
> Which Model # of the KIP - 2000?
>
> I heard that the 4000 was the one we should've got. And that was from the
> maintenance folks sent to our site on about a 6 week basis.
>

I think it was the Starprint 2000 or 3000...can't remember.

Hey, can you shoot me an email?


--
Jason Hickey

http://beneaththelines.blogspot.com

[Anonymous]

We have a Starprint2000, and although it is extremely fast, the software is
junk. It took almost 2 months of the 1 and only guy in So Cal who knows
anything about the software at all to get it up and running on our network,
and it does seem to need service at least every other month. I don't know if
the newer models are any better, but I could never recommend a KIP to
anyone.


"Jason Hickey" wrote in message
news:5137568@discussion.autodesk.com...
Don Reichle wrote:
> Which Model # of the KIP - 2000?
>
> I heard that the 4000 was the one we should've got. And that was from the
> maintenance folks sent to our site on about a 6 week basis.
>

I think it was the Starprint 2000 or 3000...can't remember.

Hey, can you shoot me an email?


--
Jason Hickey

http://beneaththelines.blogspot.com

[Anonymous]

John B wrote:
> We have a Starprint2000, and although it is extremely fast, the software is
> junk. It took almost 2 months of the 1 and only guy in So Cal who knows
> anything about the software at all to get it up and running on our network,
> and it does seem to need service at least every other month. I don't know if
> the newer models are any better, but I could never recommend a KIP to
> anyone.


I'm glad I'm not the only one. The software is the worst I've ever seen.


--
Jason Hickey

http://beneaththelines.blogspot.com

[Anonymous]

Sorry Jason but I think the fact that your support people couldn't make the software work is more a problem of who you were dealing with as opposed to what you were dealing with.
We have been running this stuff for 6 or 7 years and the software, like all packages sometimes needs some hotfixes or rewrites, I can't complain.
I can e-mail a couple of people in the software support section of Kip America can you talk to anybody at oce?
Granted if your local support s*cks, you can't do much but don't blame the product, focus on what the problem really was.
Sort of like the guy who has a crappy Acad reseller and has to deal with support.

John P.

[joeself]

Will be here Tommorow.

[holstonglass]

My company is at the end of our lease on a Kip 2900 and looking to upgrade. I have looked at the Xerox 6204, the Kip 3000, and the Savin 2400(same as Ricoh, Lanier). The issues we have had with our Kip have really increased within the last 1-1/2 years (60 month lease). It ran very well initially but has fallen off in quality and the gray scale black fill has always been awful. In my experience, Kip has been very closed in direct support to the customer. They prefer going through the dealer with all issues. Also, as a policy they will not drop ship a replacement part to our business, it goes to the local dealer who in turn ships it to the service tech who then carries it to our business. We have also had problems getting feedback on getting know glitches corrected, usually getting a response as in "that's just how it is" and we have to live with it. Kind of hesitant about going back with Kip but I know the technology has changed light years since we purchased the 2900...has anyone else had similar experiences. Are my issues common no matter which system we go with? Thanks

Danny

[Anonymous]

We go through the same issues with support/service. Kip America in and of
itself seems to offer little to no help, everything is done through the
dealer/service company. The only support I've ever gotten from Kip directly
is software support. Unfortunately there seems to be only one guy in all of
southern california that knows anything at all about the software. Not one
tech that we have had knows the software at all.
We are trapped into ours for another year at least. I have been know to pray
that it will explode in a puff of smoke, so we can move on.


wrote in message news:5149648@discussion.autodesk.com...
My company is at the end of our lease on a Kip 2900 and looking to upgrade.
I have looked at the Xerox 6204, the Kip 3000, and the Savin 2400(same as
Ricoh, Lanier). The issues we have had with our Kip have really increased
within the last 1-1/2 years (60 month lease). It ran very well initially
but has fallen off in quality and the gray scale black fill has always been
awful. In my experience, Kip has been very closed in direct support to the
customer. They prefer going through the dealer with all issues. Also, as a
policy they will not drop ship a replacement part to our business, it goes
to the local dealer who in turn ships it to the service tech who then
carries it to our business. We have also had problems getting feedback on
getting know glitches corrected, usually getting a response as in "that's
just how it is" and we have to live with it. Kind of hesitant about going
back with Kip but I know the technology has changed light years since we
purchased the 2900...has anyone else had similar experiences. Are my issues
common no matter which system we go with? Thanks

Danny

[holstonglass]

My understanding is the Kip policy is not to work directly with the end user unless all other avenues are exhausted. I understand that to an extent because our maintenance agreement is with our local dealer. But on several occasions the one service tech for our dealer can not get to me quickly and I feel like Kip would have a better support knowledge of all issues with there equipment. But, I have only spoken directly with Kip once, and the first thing they told me was I needed to call my dealer (who had told me to contact Kip). I am just scared of longevity with Kip and a little nervous about renewing a lease agreement with them. I had the Kip rep in my office and ran through the several outstanding issues we were having and his repsonse was "yeah, but how long did you wait to place a service call". My repsonse was that if his machine did not die, I would not have had to place a service call in the first palce. Maybe they are all going to be this way and all are just looking to move a mahcine.

[miketibbets]

I see that you do not have an Oce system listed to look at. Is there a particular reason why? From all the input I have received, it seems that the Oce is leading the pack in reliability, quality, etc. Thanks, by the way, to all who have responded to this thread.

[miketibbets]

joeself, how are you getting along with the new plotter? Inquiring minds would like to know. Thanks in advance

[Anonymous]

We did pretty much exactly the same thing - upgraded from Kip 2000 to 3000. I agree with your comments and those of others -- The 2000 was unreliable and with poor software. The 3000 is vastly improved in reliability and software, and I like the small footprint and front catch tray. I have a few very small gripes about the software, but overall the machine has performed very well. Message was edited by: jfranklin

[holstonglass]

Initially I assumed the Oce was expensive and for more volume (we avg approx 2K per month). But in the last day or so of my research I have noticed Oce is producing the TDS320. Have not gotten any pricing but that may fit our needs as well and will be included in future research. I have heard the TDS320 is just the TDS400 re-packaged...not sure. What are you running?