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Message 1 of 34
Anonymous
438 Views, 33 Replies

PC REQUIREMENTS

We are a small Architectural Firm, We have 16 drafters, We are planning to
purchase new computers

Autocad's Recommended pc is a P2,


What should the recommended PC be. Here is what I am planning

P4 1.0 to 1.5 GHZ
512 M RAM
32 or 64 M Video card
40G hd

5 of these pc's will be doing 3d graphics.

Any comments would be great.

Tim Lear
33 REPLIES 33
Message 2 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

what OS?
Tim Lear wrote in message
news:F4FFD5E9C49BAC983D2BF18485544CC7@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> We are a small Architectural Firm, We have 16 drafters, We are planning
to
> purchase new computers
>
> Autocad's Recommended pc is a P2,
>
>
> What should the recommended PC be. Here is what I am planning
>
> P4 1.0 to 1.5 GHZ
> 512 M RAM
> 32 or 64 M Video card
> 40G hd
>
> 5 of these pc's will be doing 3d graphics.
>
> Any comments would be great.
>
> Tim Lear
>
>
Message 3 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Window NT or 2000
Keith wrote in message
news:60F8F701B3FA6BECA994DE96084CB991@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> what OS?
> Tim Lear wrote in message
> news:F4FFD5E9C49BAC983D2BF18485544CC7@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > We are a small Architectural Firm, We have 16 drafters, We are planning
> to
> > purchase new computers
> >
> > Autocad's Recommended pc is a P2,
> >
> >
> > What should the recommended PC be. Here is what I am planning
> >
> > P4 1.0 to 1.5 GHZ
> > 512 M RAM
> > 32 or 64 M Video card
> > 40G hd
> >
> > 5 of these pc's will be doing 3d graphics.
> >
> > Any comments would be great.
> >
> > Tim Lear
> >
> >
>
>
Message 4 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Tim -
See the thread titled "The Ideal CAD Computer" started by James Dixon on 10/16/2001.
Some of them are a stretch, but there are also some very good recommendations.

jason martin
frankfurt-short-bruza

"Tim Lear" wrote in message news:F4FFD5E9C49BAC983D2BF18485544CC7@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> We are a small Architectural Firm, We have 16 drafters, We are planning to
> purchase new computers
>
> Autocad's Recommended pc is a P2,
>
>
> What should the recommended PC be. Here is what I am planning
>
> P4 1.0 to 1.5 GHZ
> 512 M RAM
> 32 or 64 M Video card
> 40G hd
>
> 5 of these pc's will be doing 3d graphics.
>
> Any comments would be great.
>
> Tim Lear
>
>
Message 5 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

So, if 16 drafters is a small firm, what would our 3 drafters firm be
classified?

Mom & pop?


Ted



> We are a small Architectural Firm, We have 16 drafters, We are planning
to
> purchase new computers
>
> Autocad's Recommended pc is a P2,
>
>
> What should the recommended PC be. Here is what I am planning
>
> P4 1.0 to 1.5 GHZ
> 512 M RAM
> 32 or 64 M Video card
> 40G hd
>
> 5 of these pc's will be doing 3d graphics.
>
> Any comments would be great.
>
> Tim Lear
Message 6 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Mom & Pop & Uncle Junior

3 people, gotta have three titles. Just don't fight over who gets called
Mom.

--
James Wedding
IT Manager
Jones & Boyd, Inc.
Dallas, TX
jwedding@*NOSPAM*jones-boyd.com
Message 7 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Some of my own thoughts on the subject.

P4s have a lot of instruction sets that just aren't being used yet. So you
won't really see a huge increase in speed between top PIII's and a P4. I
don't expect this will last, however. In fact, XP may already address it,
I'm not sure. My choice would be the P4's. Even if you're software isn't
using them to their fullest yet, the life cycle of a processor tends to be a
little longer than the life cycle of the applications, and lately, the OS.

If you go down one step from the fastest process, or maybe two steps down,
youcan get a dual processor machine for hte same price as a singel process
at the very highest speed. Dual processors do not double the actual speed
of a computer. But they do offer a significant performance boost. Someone
will probably point out that ACAD offers limited support - at best - for
dividing itself between multiple processors. This is true, but you very few
people ever have only one process going on at once. If nothing else, your
OS is busilly monitoring itself for interrupts, checking the TCP/IP stack to
see if anythign new has arricved, listenning tot he keyboard, etc. I would
definitely go for the second processor, even if it means dropping down a
noth or two in speed.

Why do you need 40 GB at workstations? Please don't tell me that you have
all 16 drafters storing theirdrawings locally. I'd switch over to smaller,
high performance drives. Personally, I use a 15,000 RPM SCSI drive. There
is a thread up above somewhere about various raid options. I'd also take a
long hard look at that. In any event, store all you data somewhere cetral,
back it up, etc, and aim your local drives for maxed out speed, you never
want to have to wait for your machine to find some DLL that hadn't loaded,
it could add whole seconds to your day.

There is another great thread in this NG somewhere on dual monitors. I do
not actually have a dual monitor setup myself, but I wiulll before the week
is out. And from everyrthing I've read, those who do have one will never
ever go back to just one monitor. And it makes sense - the screen area of 2
17" monitors is greater than a single 21" monitor. Or one 15" and one 19"
may be the way to go.


"jason martin" wrote in message
news:4F301CCDC3ACD781A7304736CA342CDF@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Tim -
> See the thread titled "The Ideal CAD Computer" started by James Dixon on
10/16/2001.
> Some of them are a stretch, but there are also some very good
recommendations.
>
> jason martin
> frankfurt-short-bruza
>
> "Tim Lear" wrote in message
news:F4FFD5E9C49BAC983D2BF18485544CC7@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > We are a small Architectural Firm, We have 16 drafters, We are planning
to
> > purchase new computers
> >
> > Autocad's Recommended pc is a P2,
> >
> >
> > What should the recommended PC be. Here is what I am planning
> >
> > P4 1.0 to 1.5 GHZ
> > 512 M RAM
> > 32 or 64 M Video card
> > 40G hd
> >
> > 5 of these pc's will be doing 3d graphics.
> >
> > Any comments would be great.
> >
> > Tim Lear
> >
> >
>
>
Message 8 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

>There is another great thread in this NG somewhere on dual monitors. I do
>not actually have a dual monitor setup myself, but I wiulll before the week
>is out. And from everyrthing I've read, those who do have one will never
>ever go back to just one monitor. And it makes sense - the screen area of 2
>17" monitors is greater than a single 21" monitor. Or one 15" and one 19"
>may be the way to go.

I'm gonna try this myself some day!
Message 9 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Just for Autocad and no other autodesk products, (I cant believe I can say
this now 🙂 )

The slowest processor on the market.
256MB RAM
The smallest HD you can by with the system.
Buy the next best video board from the one offered.

For 3D

Dual Processors
1GB Ram
A fast SCSI Drive or IDE RAID
The best video you can afford.

and a server to keep all the files on.
Message 10 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Just remember that the recommended setup is what it takes to just get
autocad open.

Debbie

"Tim Lear" wrote in message
news:F4FFD5E9C49BAC983D2BF18485544CC7@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> We are a small Architectural Firm, We have 16 drafters, We are planning
to
> purchase new computers
>
> Autocad's Recommended pc is a P2,
>
>
> What should the recommended PC be. Here is what I am planning
>
> P4 1.0 to 1.5 GHZ
> 512 M RAM
> 32 or 64 M Video card
> 40G hd
>
> 5 of these pc's will be doing 3d graphics.
>
> Any comments would be great.
>
> Tim Lear
>
>
Message 11 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I would not differentiate between "2D" workstations and "3D" workstations when
spec'ing them out. For one thing, it's easier to settle on a single
configuration and order X amount of those machines. Second, you don't have to
worry about Bob's machine being faster than John's machine, and John getting in
a snit about it. Third, the spec differences between a quality 2D and 3D machine
are peanuts, in fact I would say they are nonexistent.

Get dual processors and Windows 2000 or XP. That means either dual P4 Xeons or
dual Athlon XPs. I would go with dual Athlons, but both are acceptable. I would
do this for any CAD machine I was going to buy, be it AutoCAD 2D or a 3ds max
machine.

Always get the fastest processor available. Pennies on the dollar that will pay
for themselves with a couple of renderings.

Get a high powered quality power supply, 400W minimum

Load up on RAM - 512MB minimum. It's too cheap not to max it out, even RDRAM if
you go the P4 route.

64MB on the video card. You can safely go with any mainstream GeForce3 graphics
card, no matter what the workstation usage (2D or 3D). For the 3D users, look
for GF3 board solutions that offer specialized 3D Studio drivers like Elsa.

If there's any one single place where 3D machines might differ, it's here. But
to go the next tier up is to spend anothrer $300, for a ~$650 video card. Which
may or may not make any difference.

You could save some (and only some) $$$ and go with 20GB IDE 7200 RPM drives.
Anything more is a waste of storage, since all data in on the network
(...RIGHT!?). The performance differences between IDE and SCSI are almost
negligable for workstations. You won't save a lot of dough here, though.

21" monitors, naturally. Nothing less is acceptable. They are cheap enough and
will last through the next PC upgrade, easily.

Go with wireless mice and keyboards, too. Nothing like getting the stupid cables
out of your way, and makes setups and teardowns easier.

Get a high quality UPS for each workstation.

Matt
mstachoni@home.com
mstachoni@beyerdesign.com

On Mon, 5 Nov 2001 12:21:46 -0800, "Tim Lear" wrote:

>We are a small Architectural Firm, We have 16 drafters, We are planning to
>purchase new computers
>
>Autocad's Recommended pc is a P2,
>
>
>What should the recommended PC be. Here is what I am planning
>
>P4 1.0 to 1.5 GHZ
>512 M RAM
>32 or 64 M Video card
>40G hd
>
>5 of these pc's will be doing 3d graphics.
>
>Any comments would be great.
>
>Tim Lear
>
Message 12 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Otherwise known as 'stare-at' specifications: designed for you to
open and stare at it.

--
Dean Saadallah
www.pendean.com
---
"Debbie Hickman" wrote in message
news:4A711656C7545A5BDBB466354B267AF5@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Just remember that the recommended setup is what it takes to
just get
> autocad open.
>
> Debbie
>
> "Tim Lear" wrote in message
> news:F4FFD5E9C49BAC983D2BF18485544CC7@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > We are a small Architectural Firm, We have 16 drafters, We
are planning
> to
> > purchase new computers
> >
> > Autocad's Recommended pc is a P2,
> >
> >
> > What should the recommended PC be. Here is what I am
planning
> >
> > P4 1.0 to 1.5 GHZ
> > 512 M RAM
> > 32 or 64 M Video card
> > 40G hd
> >
> > 5 of these pc's will be doing 3d graphics.
> >
> > Any comments would be great.
> >
> > Tim Lear
> >
> >
>
>
Message 13 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Matt: Do you happen to have any ROI numbers on this class of machine?
I'd have to do some major justification to the powers that be to spec
out something this powerful for every cad station. Right now we use
Compaq PIII933 with 256MB RAM, nVidia TNT pro 16MB video chip and 20GB
7200rpm drives in the small form factor boxes. Nice, easy to use,
stable on Win98SE (I know, Win2K in the next couple of months) and all
*standard*!! One disk image to fix stubborn "customizations" on the
desktop.

Any particular brand (Dell, HP, Compaq) you like for a dual P4 box?

Man, I gotta go price new equipment while the budget is still in the
creation stages.....

Matt Stachoni wrote:
>


> Get dual processors and Windows 2000 or XP. That means either dual P4 Xeons or
> dual Athlon XPs. I would go with dual Athlons, but both are acceptable. I would
> do this for any CAD machine I was going to buy, be it AutoCAD 2D or a 3ds max
> machine.
>


--
Mark Evinger email: Mark.Evinger@cgl-ltd.com
MIS Manager
Cowhey Gudmundson Leder, Ltd.
website: http://www.cgl-ltd.com
Message 14 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

On Mon, 5 Nov 2001 19:51:20 -0800, Mark Evinger wrote:

>Matt: Do you happen to have any ROI numbers on this class of machine?

No, I don't deal with calculating ROI, which is always an exercise in pure
fiction when it comes to PCs. The dollar cost per unit of performance is
gradually reaching zero, meaning that to calculate ROI between two systems (one
high end, one low) is to compare ever smaller number differences between them,
whcih makes the exercise even more pointless. And when you look at the real $$$
numbers, not just ratios, you see that for the most part you're talking chump
change.

Managers (big M) love ROI because they're numbers that they can play with and
use as evidence to justify other numbers. However, they usually have no meaning
when it comes to a person's CAD workstation.

>I'd have to do some major justification to the powers that be to spec
>out something this powerful for every cad station.

Get new powers that be.

>Right now we use Compaq PIII933 with 256MB RAM, nVidia TNT pro 16MB video chip and 20GB
>7200rpm drives in the small form factor boxes. Nice, easy to use,
>stable on Win98SE (I know, Win2K in the next couple of months) and all
>*standard*!! One disk image to fix stubborn "customizations" on the
>desktop.

Okay, here's my version of "ROI": This stuff is CHEAP. Too cheap to worry about.
You will spend more of your company's money ferreting out steals and deals and
schemes to justify what is a pure cost of doing business, that your "ROI" is
blown out of the water.

Under Win2K and esp. XP, performance benchmarks show a substantial increase in
speed with two processors. You don't pair a high end workstation with Win 9x.
You don't pair AutoCAD and 3D Studio with Win9x, you use an NT variant. There's
simply no question of that.

Win2K and XP have enough background baggage in services and stuff to make two
processors a cheap way of increasing your daily tactile feedback to the point
where you don't notice the hardware. Under a single CPU, with multiple apps
loaded, you'll notice the drag. That's simply unaccaptable, esp. when the
solution is so cheap.

A high end CPU like the Xeon 1.7Ghz is about $310 - peanuts. Certainly cheap
enough to buy two. I paid over $200 for a P-III 700 almost a year ago. I don't
even want to THINK about what I paid for a Pentium Pro 200 CPU back in '96. High
end Athlon XPs are less than $300.

RAM is almost free - they might as well give 256MB SIMMS away in boxes of
Cracker Jacks, so it's pointless to get anything less than the max your system
can handle.

Hard disks are so cheap you cannot get anything smaller than 20GB, and they are
starting to be rare. The upcharge from 20GB to 40GB, for the same drive (IBM
Deskstar 60GXP), is $25, so the cost/GB goes from $4.15 for the 20GB to $2.17
for the 40GB - in other words, the 40GB drive is a 52% better value, and cost
pennies more.

High end GF3 video cards hover around $300-350. You can go with a GF2 card for
about $100 less, easy. But why, when the GF3 has such forward thinking
technology that future apps and drivers will take advantage of?

Everything else is pretty much the same and "class independant." I believe that
21" monitors are mandatory for CAD work, so I take them out of the equation and
would lump them into the standard base equpment list.

So at the most you are talking $500 per machine to take it to a much higher
level of performance than a "regular" CAD box.

Which will last WELL beyond the typical 3 year lifespan of most machines.

>Any particular brand (Dell, HP, Compaq) you like for a dual P4 box?

I like Dell as far as bought systems go, they just seem to be very well made and
have (depending on who you are talking to) a decent support structure. They are
also a bit less proprietary than Compaq, from what I understand.

Matt
mstachoni@home.com
mstachoni@beyerdesign.com
Message 15 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

>
>Hard disks are so cheap you cannot get anything smaller than 20GB

I was just think something as I read your message
Matt.... which is.... isn't it great all this
technology is so affordable?!
Message 16 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I would, definately. Straight 2D doesnt require hardly any horsepower
nowadays. Seriously. Ive got a guy working on a P3-300 right now(not for
much longer tho). Other then the loading of the app, and the drawing,
operationally its smooth, no delays. Spend the money where you need it,
which is on the 3d workstation.

brian

"Matt Stachoni" wrote in message
news:n2keutofdvbbtiu1kqd9m47capigj8c8v2@4ax.com...
> I would not differentiate between "2D" workstations and "3D" workstations
when
> spec'ing them out.
Message 17 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I'll second these - the cost of wireless keyboard and mouse, even including
the periodiic battery replacement is minor compared to the surprising
nuisance level caused by cables.

And a UPS for every machine is, in my mind, a must.

"Matt Stachoni" wrote in message
news:n2keutofdvbbtiu1kqd9m47capigj8c8v2@4ax.com...

> Go with wireless mice and keyboards, too. Nothing like getting the stupid
cables
> out of your way, and makes setups and teardowns easier.
>
> Get a high quality UPS for each workstation.
>
> Matt
> mstachoni@home.com
> mstachoni@beyerdesign.com
>
Message 18 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I think some thought about how your office works is required for this
decision. My bosses make a point of hiring only people that they consider
high level (I don't always agree, but that's another issue), and they can't
get it in their heads that walking up to a drafter with no previous 3D
experience and asking for a 3D model is a source of massive frustration. So
I do my best to keep all the workstations at the same level, all capable of
3D work. In an office that is more structured, where some people will only
ever be given certain tasks, you can probaly afford to tailor your machine
specs, and if some one get's in a sniot, you can point out that machines are
tailored to roles, and positions, not people.




"Brian Debelius" <_@_.com> wrote in message
news:6957F0E63F5A4F3C96F61C49B7F660F0@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> I would, definately. Straight 2D doesnt require hardly any horsepower
> nowadays. Seriously. Ive got a guy working on a P3-300 right now(not for
> much longer tho). Other then the loading of the app, and the drawing,
> operationally its smooth, no delays. Spend the money where you need it,
> which is on the 3d workstation.
>
> brian
>
> "Matt Stachoni" wrote in message
> news:n2keutofdvbbtiu1kqd9m47capigj8c8v2@4ax.com...
> > I would not differentiate between "2D" workstations and "3D"
workstations
> when
> > spec'ing them out.
>
>
Message 19 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 07:43:22 -0800, "Brian Debelius" <_@_.com> wrote:

>I would, definately. Straight 2D doesnt require hardly any horsepower
>nowadays. Seriously. Ive got a guy working on a P3-300 right now(not for
>much longer tho). Other then the loading of the app, and the drawing,
>operationally its smooth, no delays. Spend the money where you need it,
>which is on the 3d workstation.

Not when the added cost of a decent 3D workstation is nothing compared to its
return value over time. At these prices, higher tech always pays for itself
almost overnight.

Matt
mstachoni@home.com
mstachoni@beyerdesign.com
Message 20 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Youll need to explain that one to me. The way I figure it, I can buy a DELL
P4-1.1,20GB,256MB,CD,19" monitor for $1100. Just fine for straight 2D CAD.
I'm pushing $6000 for a 3D workstation. So where is the ROI for over
spec'ing the 2D workstation.

brian-




"Matt Stachoni" wrote in message
news:r05gut822ob9eopuv6khenq0huu7ur6nup@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 07:43:22 -0800, "Brian Debelius" <_@_.com> wrote:
>
> >I would, definately. Straight 2D doesnt require hardly any horsepower
> >nowadays. Seriously. Ive got a guy working on a P3-300 right now(not
for
> >much longer tho). Other then the loading of the app, and the drawing,
> >operationally its smooth, no delays. Spend the money where you need it,
> >which is on the 3d workstation.
>
> Not when the added cost of a decent 3D workstation is nothing compared to
its
> return value over time. At these prices, higher tech always pays for
itself
> almost overnight.
>
> Matt
> mstachoni@home.com
> mstachoni@beyerdesign.com

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