CAD Managers

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Distinguished Contributor
rculp
Posts: 1,235
Registered: ‎03-22-2006
Message 11 of 82 (99 Views)

Re: Ownership of CAD files

07-05-2006 11:39 AM in reply to: Evan Yares
"" Why should the architect be responsible for contractors and manufacturers' shop drawings or what have you? ""

To save the client money. Can't speak for architectural firms, but we look to provide our clients with the best product at the least cost. To do that we regularly share design files with fabricators and suppliers in return for a better price.
Distinguished Contributor
rculp
Posts: 1,235
Registered: ‎03-22-2006
Message 12 of 82 (99 Views)

Re: Ownership of CAD files

07-05-2006 12:03 PM in reply to: Evan Yares
"" but we don't have any agency for ruling the standardization, and we use that file for sharing""

oh here we go again. Jorge, one size does NOT fit all. If you want the AIA to manage the standardization of Architectural files then call on them. But AIA standards ONLY work for architects (and not very well there), they don't work at all in our industry or any other for that matter. A single standard will only reduce the flexibility of the tool and in turn it usefulness. For a change try looking at the several hundred industries utilizing Autodesk products that are not architectural.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" Can yo imagine if you contractor give you a bunch of maylar drawings, but lets say, cutted in little pieces, like a puzzle or something like that? ""

Autodesk doesn't do that either. Very poor analogy.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" "if you change your drafting table, maylar and pencil for computer, keyboard and mouse, you have to change your procedures also" That change haven arrived yet, at least in the majority here. ""

Speak only for yourself on that issue Jorge. You're the only poster I've seen that refuses to setup his own standards with even a minimum of customization. You'd prefer someone else to tell you how and what to draw.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" Lets say you have your own cad standard and you inquire to your contarctor uses that before they send you the file. But you are not the only contractor client. Who pays to the contractor that custom standard for each client like you.""

We provide our suppliers with the tools to accomplish our standards, as should any firm.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" We stiil need another code to prepares the layers, block, views and other dwg subproducts, before interchange the dwg file. Who will create that code? ""

We do. I have a question Jorge, as an architect how would you like a standard developed by a steel fabricator. Only the layers and styles needed for steel fabrication are allowed in this new code. Would that fit you well? Probably not, just as one created by the AIA would not fit us. And should Autodesk attempt some standard that will accommodate ALL possible users in ALL possible industries it will be much to cumbersome to be of any use at all. Surely you can see that.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" It have to be a council, a group, for inside ACAD users, and for outside ACAD users. ""

oh no, a committee?? that'll guarantee it's uselessness.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" But first we need to figure out to whom belogns the dwg to...""

nope already done that, you just don't like the result for some reason.
Distinguished Contributor
Wotdat
Posts: 447
Registered: ‎10-10-2005
Message 13 of 82 (99 Views)

Re: Ownership of CAD files

07-05-2006 03:27 PM in reply to: Evan Yares
Don't get me wrong Randy, I know that every firm's priority is toward saving the "Client" money. Isn't it the reason every design firm plunged into the technology paradigm with the hope of doing things better and faster with the intention of stream lining expensies related to doing things the hard way. Therefore, acquiring CAD (or BIM) files from any firm through sell/purchase should just be a part of doing business that come with the changes of time like everything else. Naturally.
*Don Reichle
Message 14 of 82 (99 Views)

Re: Ownership of CAD files

07-05-2006 09:29 PM in reply to: Evan Yares
There's two means of accomplishing the end of raising the Client's
"profitability" Wotdat;

1 - Quick & Dirty

2 - Quality & Diligence

The ONLY similarities though with these two methods are my own contrived
Initials for the 2nd method.

I wonder which method is the most profitable for ALL concerned? Especially
the Buying Public, as they certainly fit into that definition of ALL.

Tell me honestly now - which of those two styles of Development would you
desire to call "home"?

And the 2nd query I place before you goes hand-in-hand;

Do you practice the methodology that you wish to live with/in?

And the 3rd query naturally follows;

You really feel you've done your best effort for the true Clients - the ones
who choose to live with/in our products?

Just some thought-provoking queries to ponder upon - the next time either
style Client calls upon your firm with a concept, for your firm to produce
Final Plans for them.

Hope They Help.

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
----------------------------------------------------------
!! Please discuss whatever we tell you with your SysMgr !!
!! They appreciate staying in the loop :-) !!

LDT/CD-2K4
AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core 3800+ 2.01GHz
XP-Pro 32bit SP2
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Dual WD800JD Hard Drives - 149GB Nvidia Stripe
Nvidia Quadro FX 1300 128MB
Dual ViewSonic 19-inch VA902b monitors

"The only Constant is Change".


wrote in message news:5228021@discussion.autodesk.com...
Don't get me wrong Randy, I know that every firm's priority is toward
saving the "Client" money. Isn't it the reason every design firm plunged
into the technology paradigm with the hope of doing things better and
faster with the intention of stream lining expensies related to doing things
the hard way. Therefore, acquiring CAD (or BIM) files from any firm through
sell/purchase should just be a part of doing business that come with the
changes of time like everything else. Naturally.
Distinguished Contributor
wookie
Posts: 516
Registered: ‎08-20-2003
Message 15 of 82 (99 Views)

Re: Ownership of CAD files

07-05-2006 09:53 PM in reply to: Evan Yares
>>1 - Quick & Dirty

2 - Quality & Diligence<<

Or as our factory manager likes to say.
"We may be slow, but at least we're rough."

Fortunately he's joking....
Distinguished Contributor
Wotdat
Posts: 447
Registered: ‎10-10-2005
Message 16 of 82 (99 Views)

Re: Ownership of CAD files

07-05-2006 11:12 PM in reply to: Evan Yares
> 2 - Quality & Diligence

Don, You sneaky..... Don't get me wrong.
That's me, totally, bulls eye right on the dot, 100%.
Customer Satisfaction Guaranteed.

I don't know about you but I think I should be more worried about the Selected contractor rather than the Hired Architect selling to What to Whom. Where I'm from at least.
Distinguished Contributor
JorgeLedezma
Posts: 690
Registered: ‎06-12-2004
Message 17 of 82 (99 Views)

Re: Ownership of CAD files

07-06-2006 04:35 AM in reply to: Evan Yares
"PERSONS USING THE SOFTWARE ARE ALSO RESPONSIBLE FOR ESTABLISHING THE ADEQUACY OF INDEPENDENT PROCEDURES FOR TESTING THE RELIABILITY AND ACCURACY OF ANY PROGRAM OUTPUT"

1. dwg is an output? right?

2. ADSK fails ("?") to realize that the dwg is a standard by default (facto), for network effect. They simply cant "ignore" what they did, for money.

Tobacco companies put a warning in the cigarettes boxes, and the governments enforce them to have more responsability in the consequences of their products.

In this case should be the users because the government is not aware of this?

I would like the Cad Managers make the math and get the exact cost of this.

Note: Randy, if you are not ADSK employee, do not reply to my posts. It is suspect that I am not censured by the DG administrator but all my post are persecuted by Randy.
*Allen Jessup
Message 18 of 82 (99 Views)

Re: Ownership of CAD files

07-06-2006 05:21 AM in reply to: Evan Yares
There is a good article in the July Professional Surveyor Magazine. It
basically tells the story of one Surveying & Engineering firm who decided it
was their responsibility to deliver their product in whatever format the
client wanted. They've made investments in software and training. They have
grown from a 5 person firm to a 150 person firm in the past 10 years.

So while some may argue about whose responsibility compatibility is. Others
have taken on that responsibility and made a good deal of money at it.
They've obviously chosen #2.

Allen

"Don Reichle" wrote in message
news:5228255@discussion.autodesk.com...
There's two means of accomplishing the end of raising the Client's
"profitability" Wotdat;

1 - Quick & Dirty

2 - Quality & Diligence

The ONLY similarities though with these two methods are my own contrived
Initials for the 2nd method.

I wonder which method is the most profitable for ALL concerned? Especially
the Buying Public, as they certainly fit into that definition of ALL.

Tell me honestly now - which of those two styles of Development would you
desire to call "home"?

And the 2nd query I place before you goes hand-in-hand;

Do you practice the methodology that you wish to live with/in?

And the 3rd query naturally follows;

You really feel you've done your best effort for the true Clients - the ones
who choose to live with/in our products?

Just some thought-provoking queries to ponder upon - the next time either
style Client calls upon your firm with a concept, for your firm to produce
Final Plans for them.

Hope They Help.

--
Don Reichle
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
----------------------------------------------------------
!! Please discuss whatever we tell you with your SysMgr !!
!! They appreciate staying in the loop :-) !!

LDT/CD-2K4
AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core 3800+ 2.01GHz
XP-Pro 32bit SP2
2GB RAM
Dual WD800JD Hard Drives - 149GB Nvidia Stripe
Nvidia Quadro FX 1300 128MB
Dual ViewSonic 19-inch VA902b monitors

"The only Constant is Change".


wrote in message news:5228021@discussion.autodesk.com...
Don't get me wrong Randy, I know that every firm's priority is toward
saving the "Client" money. Isn't it the reason every design firm plunged
into the technology paradigm with the hope of doing things better and
faster with the intention of stream lining expensies related to doing things
the hard way. Therefore, acquiring CAD (or BIM) files from any firm through
sell/purchase should just be a part of doing business that come with the
changes of time like everything else. Naturally.
Distinguished Contributor
Evan Yares
Posts: 131
Registered: ‎03-09-2004
Message 19 of 82 (99 Views)

Re: Ownership of CAD files

07-06-2006 06:01 AM in reply to: Evan Yares
Jorge -

Yes, DWG is an output.

Autodesk is well aware of DWG's status as a de facto standard, and I'm certain that they understand the value of the network effect that DWG creates. (They talk about it on their website.)

This "warning" is probably like the warning on a cigarette box. Yet, in this case, Autodesk may be asking users, as part of the warning, to do something that they can't easily do -- *independently* test the reliability and accuracy of their DWG files.

How does this affect liability, when there are multiple parties involved (Autodesk, the user, and their customer), and questions about ownership? I don't know. I'm not trying to beat up on Autodesk here, but rather am interested in hearing other perspectives than my own.
*Randy Culp
Message 20 of 82 (99 Views)

Re: Ownership of CAD files

07-06-2006 05:06 PM in reply to: Evan Yares
"" ADSK fails ("?") to realize that the dwg is a standard by default
(facto), for network effect.""

No they don't. they plan on making big money because of it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" They simply cant "ignore" what they did, for money. ""

They're not attempting to ignore anything

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" Tobacco companies put a warning in the cigarettes boxes, and the
governments enforce them to have more responsability in the consequences of
their products. ""

Oh for Pete's sake. Now you're equating Autodesk with cancer causing
agents. Evan, this is the kind of mean-spirited, panic-mongering lie that
draw a hostile response.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" I would like the Cad Managers make the math and get the exact cost of
this. ""

The exact cost of what, Jorge? Making money?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" Note: Randy, if you are not ADSK employee, do not reply to my posts. ""

Jorge, when you get to be an Autodesk forum moderator you can tell me when
and what to post. Until then, save your breath.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" It is suspect that I am not censured by the DG administrator but all my
post are persecuted by Randy. ""

Yo Evan, can you say "black-helicopter"?
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