Autodesk Technology Managers Forum
Share your knowledge, ask questions, and engage with fellow CAD/BIM Managers.
cancel
Showing results for 
Show  only  | Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Good Forum for Instructors

16 REPLIES 16
Reply
Message 1 of 17
burgener
600 Views, 16 Replies

Good Forum for Instructors

What's a good place to get impartial advice among instructors? I teach 3 or 4 nights each week at various school nearby, and would like to share thoughts and ideas with other instructors. I don't want JUST the Autodesk sales talk, I want to hear from actual independant adjunct and full time teachers.

For example, does anybody bother teaching Groups? Multilines? Aerial View? Some of the features over the years weren't well received in industry, and in my opinion, shouldn't be taught unless time permits the "history lesson".
16 REPLIES 16
Message 2 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: burgener

You might try AUGI or visit CadTUTOR.net (a very lively bunch there) you may
even convince them of a need for an educators sub forum.

Funny you should mention Aerial View and "features not received well" in
the same paragraph. I use Aerial View extensively and find it to be a very
efficient means to navigate the drawing. I suspect the vast majority do not use
it but just because the industry does not "accept" something does not mean
teaching it has no value .

I suppose while I'm at it I might add that non teachers may contribute to the
discussion as well (after all, your students will need to adjust to the "real"
world).

--

Patrick Hughes

Engineered Design Solutions
CadTempo: Time Logging for CAD
visit http://www.Cadtempo.com
_____________________________

wrote in message news:6346623@discussion.autodesk.com...
What's a good place to get impartial advice among instructors? I teach 3 or 4
nights each week at various school nearby, and would like to share thoughts and
ideas with other instructors. I don't want JUST the Autodesk sales talk, I want
to hear from actual independant adjunct and full time teachers.

For example, does anybody bother teaching Groups? Multilines? Aerial View?
Some of the features over the years weren't well received in industry, and in my
opinion, shouldn't be taught unless time permits the "history lesson".
Message 3 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: burgener

There is a dedicated forum for Educators already on AUGI, it's under the
CAD Management section

http://forums.augi.com/forumdisplay.php?f=245

It's not extremely busy, but, if a couple of people start some good
conversations, I'm sure that could easily change.


Cheers,


Melanie Perry
***not all who wander are lost***
http://augi.com/autocad
http://mistressofthedorkness.blogspot.com

On 3/1/2010 7:05 PM, Patrick Hughes wrote:
> You might try AUGI or visit CadTUTOR.net (a very lively bunch there) you may
> even convince them of a need for an educators sub forum.
>
> Funny you should mention Aerial View and "features not received well" in
> the same paragraph. I use Aerial View extensively and find it to be a very
> efficient means to navigate the drawing. I suspect the vast majority do not use
> it but just because the industry does not "accept" something does not mean
> teaching it has no value .
>
> I suppose while I'm at it I might add that non teachers may contribute to the
> discussion as well (after all, your students will need to adjust to the "real"
> world).
>
Message 4 of 17
JDMather
in reply to: burgener

http://www.autodesk.com/edcommunity

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Autodesk Inventor 2019 Certified Professional
Autodesk AutoCAD 2013 Certified Professional
Certified SolidWorks Professional


The CADWhisperer YouTube Channel


EESignature

Message 5 of 17
Alfredo_Medina
in reply to: burgener

I assume you are referring to AutoCAD's Group command. That is in my opinion, one of the worst commands ever created. While other programs are able to group and ungroup things very easily, AutoCAD had that overly complicated dialog box. If I were to make a list of my least favorite AutoCAD commands, that one would be on the top. I never included the Group command in my courses for that reason, and nobody ever asked about it, either. Not only that; during the time I worked with AutoCAD in architectural offices, nobody ever mentioned it, used it, or knew about it. Not a popular tool at all.

Alfredo Medina
info@planta1.com

Alfredo Medina _________________________________________________________________ ______
Licensed Architect (Florida) | Freelance Instructor | Autodesk Expert Elite (on Revit) | Profile on Linkedin
Message 6 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: burgener

Groups are nice for creating saved selection sets, but not if you have to
use the dialog box - we've got MG and EG macros to make group and explode
group (thanks, James Maeding). Those, with Ctl-H to toggle groups on/off,
is very handy.

I've used it for years and wouldn't want to see them drop groups.

"Alfredo_Medina" wrote in message news:6354538@discussion.autodesk.com...
> I assume you are referring to AutoCAD's Group command. That is in my
> opinion, one of the worst commands ever created. While other programs are
> able to group and ungroup things very easily, AutoCAD had that overly
> complicated dialog box. If I were to make a list of my least favorite
> AutoCAD commands, that one would be on the top. I never included the Group
> command in my courses for that reason, and nobody ever asked about it,
> either. Not only that; during the time I worked with AutoCAD in
> architectural offices, nobody ever mentioned it, used it, or knew about
> it. Not a popular tool at all.
>
> Alfredo Medina
> info@planta1.com
Message 7 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: burgener

Egads, Alfredo. I use the group command (automatically within our lisp
routines, and/or using Toolpac's grouping tool, and/or the dialog itself
(mostly for sleuthing what group something belongs to, then adding
additional object or removing object from it)), probably dozens of times a
day. MLines as well. I have a hard time understanding the mindset of
people who want to gut functionality from the software 'because they
personally don't see the need for it'.

Whether or not as an instructor you see the need to teach it is your cookie.
I would expect that about 3-5 minutes of instruction would be sufficient for
it. ("Here's something else that you can do, should you have the need for
it, it works this way...") Then move on. I can't really see the problem
myself.

As for anyone 'ever asking about it', what's to ask about if they never knew
it existed?

At any rate, I'd be pretty ticked if Autodesk ripped it out.

Regards,
David Kozina


wrote in message news:6354538@discussion.autodesk.com...
I assume you are referring to AutoCAD's Group command. That is in my
opinion, one of the worst commands ever created. While other programs are
able to group and ungroup things very easily, AutoCAD had that overly
complicated dialog box. If I were to make a list of my least favorite
AutoCAD commands, that one would be on the top. I never included the Group
command in my courses for that reason, and nobody ever asked about it,
either. Not only that; during the time I worked with AutoCAD in
architectural offices, nobody ever mentioned it, used it, or knew about it.
Not a popular tool at all.

Alfredo Medina
info@planta1.com
Message 8 of 17
Alfredo_Medina
in reply to: burgener

David

You are the first person I have known of that actually uses the Group command. The other person was... some years ago, when I made the same comment about this command in these newsgroups. Probably it was you back then, too? 🙂
As of Mlines and Toolpac, now that you mention them together, ask Terry W. Dotson his opinion about Mlines, he would tell you: "Mlines are useless!" 🙂

Alfredo

Alfredo Medina _________________________________________________________________ ______
Licensed Architect (Florida) | Freelance Instructor | Autodesk Expert Elite (on Revit) | Profile on Linkedin
Message 9 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: burgener

Hijole...

MY drafting instructor had the best retort for that sort of nonsense:

"Do you wanna go home bawling?"

:)


wrote in message news:6355184@discussion.autodesk.com...
David

You are the first person I have known of that actually uses the Group
command. The other person was... some years ago, when I made the same
comment about this command in these newsgroups. Probably it was you back
then, too? 🙂
As of Mlines and Toolpac, now that you mention them together, ask Terry W.
Dotson his opinion about Mlines, he would tell you: "Mlines are useless!"
:-)

Alfredo
Message 10 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: burgener

Mlines make good slots.

wrote in message news:6355184@discussion.autodesk.com...
David

You are the first person I have known of that actually uses the Group
command. The other person was... some years ago, when I made the same
comment about this command in these newsgroups. Probably it was you back
then, too? 🙂
As of Mlines and Toolpac, now that you mention them together, ask Terry W.
Dotson his opinion about Mlines, he would tell you: "Mlines are useless!"
:-)

Alfredo
Message 11 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: burgener

They make pretty good walls, too. I agree with David K's statement:
"I have a hard time understanding the mindset of people who want to gut
functionality from the software because they personally don't see the need
for it."

We become experts at customizing and using CAD to get done what we need to
do, then blindly dis anyone who relies on functionality we seldom or never
use.

Have a civil guy using customized vanilla acad/LDT/C3D for 10 years get a
new job doing P&IDs for a wastewater treatment plant design group. He'll
learn some 'new' commands and procedures pretty quickly.


"Jerry Runnels" wrote in message
news:6355853@discussion.autodesk.com...
> Mlines make good slots.
>
> wrote in message news:6355184@discussion.autodesk.com...
> David
>
> You are the first person I have known of that actually uses the Group
> command. The other person was... some years ago, when I made the same
> comment about this command in these newsgroups. Probably it was you back
> then, too? 🙂
> As of Mlines and Toolpac, now that you mention them together, ask Terry W.
> Dotson his opinion about Mlines, he would tell you: "Mlines are useless!"
> 🙂
>
> Alfredo
Message 12 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: burgener

On 3/15/2010 11:32 PM, Alfredo_Medina wrote:

> ask Terry W. Dotson his opinion about Mlines, he would
> tell you: "Mlines are useless!" 🙂

He would also say that they were added to match a marketing bullet point
with MicroStation as in "Yes we've got multilines". They have not been
improved since implemented and still can't contain arcs, etc. Of course
neither than the elder 3dPolylines.

How much ribbon would you give up for that functionality?

Terry
--
Never start any job without the right tools!
AutoCAD Add-on Tools at http://www.dotsoft.com
Message 13 of 17
Alfredo_Medina
in reply to: burgener

Dave, (and Dave K.)

Is it not curious that the two users who have written in defense of the Group command use it with the aid of custom routines to make it work easier? Don't you see an issue with "usability" or "friendliness" in this not-so-popular command?
In other programs, grouping objects is 1) select, 2) group, and you're done. But in AutoCAD it could Not be simple, it had to be a little more... eh... how do I say...'special'; ... and no, I don´t want to eliminate any commands, how could I? Since the subject of this thread was whether we teach some commands or not, I am just commenting on the commands which don't make it into my list of Level 1 or Level 2 AutoCAD class, after including some more essential or useful commands, that is all.

Alfredo Medina
info@planta1.com

Alfredo Medina _________________________________________________________________ ______
Licensed Architect (Florida) | Freelance Instructor | Autodesk Expert Elite (on Revit) | Profile on Linkedin
Message 14 of 17
Alfredo_Medina
in reply to: burgener

Hey, Terry, nice to see you here!

Alfredo Medina _________________________________________________________________ ______
Licensed Architect (Florida) | Freelance Instructor | Autodesk Expert Elite (on Revit) | Profile on Linkedin
Message 15 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: burgener

Alfredo,

I feel very sorry for *anyone* that tries/has to use AutoCAD OOTB.

I suppose the last time I had to was R13, when I first started using the
program (and mlines, too, as a matter of fact). (Or when I visited someone
in their non-customized office .)

The beauty of the software is that one should't be forced to do that. As it
turns out, I don't use many of the command dialogs in a typical workday.
Why flounder about in a dialog when it can be skipped altogether via
automation? And in some cases, I get more mileage out of the command line
version of a command than its dialog.

Just because a command is 'not popular' doesn't mean it's worthless.
Whether or not you teach certain commands, like I said, is your cookie.
I'm glad I know about groups, though, since I've got some good uses for
them.

And, with respects to Autodesk - perhaps they have deliberately left certain
commands (mlines, say) 'in a sort of primordial state' so as to not draw
attention away from 'solutions' found in their other vertical products that
they would like to promote (at least for a time)? Not saying that's the
case - but one does wonder.

How 'bout PEDIT? Do you like that 'lil gem of a command? I find it very
fun to watch how people use that command (but not when they try to skip it
by stacking vertex grip on top of grip .)

Just some additional thoughts, fwtw.

David Kozina


wrote in message news:6356298@discussion.autodesk.com...
Dave, (and Dave K.)

Is it not curious that the two users who have written in defense of the
Group command use it with the aid of custom routines to make it work easier?
Don't you see an issue with "usability" or "friendliness" in this
not-so-popular command?
In other programs, grouping objects is 1) select, 2) group, and you're done.
But in AutoCAD it could Not be simple, it had to be a little more... eh...
how do I say...'special'; ... and no, I don´t want to eliminate any
commands, how could I? Since the subject of this thread was whether we teach
some commands or not, I am just commenting on the commands which don't make
it into my list of Level 1 or Level 2 AutoCAD class, after including some
more essential or useful commands, that is all.

Alfredo Medina
info@planta1.com
Message 16 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: burgener

True enough. I think they'd be worth a brief mention though, with your
explanation, and let those people who move on to customization know that
they can be very useful - even if adesk has let them slip onto the back
burners. Same with all that stuff - DDVPOINT, ASVIEWER, SSX, point filters,
snap tracking, use of parallel to and from snaps. Many of my guys have been
using for 5-10 yrs here are surprised to see those when they come up. And
that always surprises me (maybe a testament to my poor teaching agenda).


"Alfredo_Medina" wrote in message news:6356298@discussion.autodesk.com...
> Dave, (and Dave K.)
>
> Is it not curious that the two users who have written in defense of the
> Group command use it with the aid of custom routines to make it work
> easier? Don't you see an issue with "usability" or "friendliness" in this
> not-so-popular command?
> In other programs, grouping objects is 1) select, 2) group, and you're
> done. But in AutoCAD it could Not be simple, it had to be a little more...
> eh... how do I say...'special'; ... and no, I don´t want to eliminate any
> commands, how could I? Since the subject of this thread was whether we
> teach some commands or not, I am just commenting on the commands which
> don't make it into my list of Level 1 or Level 2 AutoCAD class, after
> including some more essential or useful commands, that is all.
>
> Alfredo Medina
> info@planta1.com
Message 17 of 17
Alfredo_Medina
in reply to: burgener

Hey, David K.
I remember we met briefly at AU 2002 in Las Vegas. Do you remember? you gave me your business card.

About PEDIT: for a long time it remained as the only solution for putting together a bunch of plines or lines. I think it is the only way, even though Adesk added the old "glue" command, which I believe came from Softdesk, into plain vanilla AutoCAD. I still remember that stupid question in the PEDIT command that goes something like "this segment is not a polyline, would you like to convert into a polyline?" Duh!! YES, dear programmer, since I want to join a bunch of lines into a single entity I don't care if you need to convert the individual segments into polylines entities first, please do it. ...Some years later, Autodesk included in its list of "improvements" a new variable (as if we didn't have enough) to get rid of that silly question. Ah...I'm glad I am not using AutoCAD now as I had to, some time ago.

Alfredo Medina
info@planta1.com

Alfredo Medina _________________________________________________________________ ______
Licensed Architect (Florida) | Freelance Instructor | Autodesk Expert Elite (on Revit) | Profile on Linkedin

Can't find what you're looking for? Ask the community or share your knowledge.

Post to forums  

Administrator Productivity


Autodesk Design & Make Report