Autodesk Technology Managers Forum
Share your knowledge, ask questions, and engage with fellow CAD/BIM Managers.
cancel
Showing results for 
Show  only  | Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
Reply
Message 1 of 19
Anonymous
380 Views, 18 Replies

directory psychology

this is a longshot, does anybody have any references to recommendations on
directory structures and file naming conventions.
the reason i ask is i am setting up a prototype for a document manager,
where we can define our own tree structure to hold reference documents.
These are not job files, but standard forms, form letters, iso, safety,
policy stuff, design.

these are *made* up, but illustrate what i am looking for.

1. directories are not more than 5 levels deep from the root
2. not more than 40 files in one directory
3. long filenames not more than 30 characters, with no spaces

and my favorite, dont create an empty directory structure for files which
dont exist in hopes it may be filled.
18 REPLIES 18
Message 2 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

"Terry Priest" wrote in message
news:ACBF3853CDDAEE2CC6A58E0D73EFDB49@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> and my favorite, dont create an empty directory structure for files which
> dont exist in hopes it may be filled.
Terry, I am going to argue agaist this last one. My experience is that if
you don't provide a folder, and it some day becomes necessary, when it does
you will be back to ad hoc naming conventions. If you have a folder standard
that covers all eventualities, then yes some will be empty most of the time,
but you have a better chance of things being right when they do need to be
used. For example, my standard folders for an architectural project look
like this:
00 AD Administration
01 MA Marketing
02 PD Pre design
03 SD Schematic design
04 DD Design development
05 CD Construction documents
06 BD Bidding & negotiations
07 CA Construction administration
08 PO Post occupancy
09 SS Supplemental services

01 MA & 06BD are almost never used, and 08 PO & 09 SS rarely (some stuff
probably belongs in 09 SS, but if the contract wasn't written that way, the
files shouldn't get stored that way). So yes, 40% of the folders remain
empty, but with only 10 folders and no files in the root folder of the
project, it really isn't a problem. Now if you had 40 total folders, and 15
of them empty, that might be a problem. Then again the 40 folders would be a
problem.

Just my $0.02

Gordon Price
Message 3 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I like that.
Empty folders drive me nuts. I think if you can keep it simple, it is
manageable.

Terry Priest wrote:

> ...and my favorite, dont create an empty directory structure for files which
>
> dont exist in hopes it may be filled.
Message 4 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Ditto what Gordon said.
Message 5 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Empty folders drive me nuts

I used to have the some problem, they don't bother me anymore... I deleted
them all.
Mwahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

drew

"Paul Furman" wrote in message
news:3C8E6FC0.7717DBAB@edgehill.net...
> I like that.
> Empty folders drive me nuts. I think if you can keep it simple, it is
> manageable.
>
> Terry Priest wrote:
>
> > ...and my favorite, dont create an empty directory structure for files
which
> >
> > dont exist in hopes it may be filled.
>
Message 6 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

we are probably all about in the same boat. its the managers who want to
name a file "This is a letter i wrote on the plane which i think everyone
should use.doc"

or make 80 directories, its not apparent where the files are from the top

i just need an expert to agree with me. i havent found anything. i would
post it if i did.



"Gordon Price" wrote in message
news:47EDC08B0FB3CC23664B4C64EDB9279F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
>
> "Terry Priest" wrote in message
> news:ACBF3853CDDAEE2CC6A58E0D73EFDB49@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > and my favorite, dont create an empty directory structure for files
which
> > dont exist in hopes it may be filled.
> Terry, I am going to argue agaist this last one. My experience is that if
> you don't provide a folder, and it some day becomes necessary, when it
does
> you will be back to ad hoc naming conventions. If you have a folder
standard
> that covers all eventualities, then yes some will be empty most of the
time,
> but you have a better chance of things being right when they do need to be
> used. For example, my standard folders for an architectural project look
> like this:
> 00 AD Administration
> 01 MA Marketing
> 02 PD Pre design
> 03 SD Schematic design
> 04 DD Design development
> 05 CD Construction documents
> 06 BD Bidding & negotiations
> 07 CA Construction administration
> 08 PO Post occupancy
> 09 SS Supplemental services
>
> 01 MA & 06BD are almost never used, and 08 PO & 09 SS rarely (some stuff
> probably belongs in 09 SS, but if the contract wasn't written that way,
the
> files shouldn't get stored that way). So yes, 40% of the folders remain
> empty, but with only 10 folders and no files in the root folder of the
> project, it really isn't a problem. Now if you had 40 total folders, and
15
> of them empty, that might be a problem. Then again the 40 folders would be
a
> problem.
>
> Just my $0.02
>
> Gordon Price
>
>
>
>
Message 7 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

"Terry Priest" wrote in message
news:316333B7474466D928816391B3F016F5@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> we are probably all about in the same boat. its the managers who want to
> name a file "This is a letter i wrote on the plane which i think everyone
> should use.doc"
>
> or make 80 directories, its not apparent where the files are from the top
>
> i just need an expert to agree with me. i havent found anything. i would
> post it if i did.
For what it is worth, you could use my stuff. I did some doco for small
offices, and it does go into some detail. I guess it all depends on what the
management folks call an "expert". If they mean someone who people are
thrilled to pay $300 an hour to, then I ain't it. On the other hand, if they
mean someone who knows a lot more about the issues than they do, I would
argue just about everyone in the Cadmanager group qualifies 😉
Anyway, take a look at
http://www.albedoconsulting.com/journal/folderstructure/folderstructure-00.h
tm
and best of luck! I am actually trying to convince my office to go to STBs
and not worry so much about color vis-a-vis lineweight. Rough.

Regards,
Gordon Price
Message 8 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Gordon,

The link is dead...

"Gordon Price" wrote in message
news:6FD6FA77988D069BBCBD94D7174891C7@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
>
> "Terry Priest" wrote in message
> news:316333B7474466D928816391B3F016F5@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > we are probably all about in the same boat. its the managers who want to
> > name a file "This is a letter i wrote on the plane which i think
everyone
> > should use.doc"
> >
> > or make 80 directories, its not apparent where the files are from the
top
> >
> > i just need an expert to agree with me. i havent found anything. i would
> > post it if i did.
> For what it is worth, you could use my stuff. I did some doco for small
> offices, and it does go into some detail. I guess it all depends on what
the
> management folks call an "expert". If they mean someone who people are
> thrilled to pay $300 an hour to, then I ain't it. On the other hand, if
they
> mean someone who knows a lot more about the issues than they do, I would
> argue just about everyone in the Cadmanager group qualifies 😉
> Anyway, take a look at
>
http://www.albedoconsulting.com/journal/folderstructure/folderstructure-00.h
> tm
> and best of luck! I am actually trying to convince my office to go to STBs
> and not worry so much about color vis-a-vis lineweight. Rough.
>
> Regards,
> Gordon Price
>
>
>
Message 9 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

it just linewrapped, finish the extension and it works


"CAD Guy" wrote in message
news:3B5645BD15808176FE68D2D7BE6EE6E3@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Gordon,
>
> The link is dead...
>
> "Gordon Price" wrote in message
> news:6FD6FA77988D069BBCBD94D7174891C7@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> >
> > "Terry Priest" wrote in message
> > news:316333B7474466D928816391B3F016F5@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > we are probably all about in the same boat. its the managers who want
to
> > > name a file "This is a letter i wrote on the plane which i think
> everyone
> > > should use.doc"
> > >
> > > or make 80 directories, its not apparent where the files are from the
> top
> > >
> > > i just need an expert to agree with me. i havent found anything. i
would
> > > post it if i did.
> > For what it is worth, you could use my stuff. I did some doco for small
> > offices, and it does go into some detail. I guess it all depends on what
> the
> > management folks call an "expert". If they mean someone who people are
> > thrilled to pay $300 an hour to, then I ain't it. On the other hand, if
> they
> > mean someone who knows a lot more about the issues than they do, I would
> > argue just about everyone in the Cadmanager group qualifies 😉
> > Anyway, take a look at
> >
>
http://www.albedoconsulting.com/journal/folderstructure/folderstructure-00.h
> > tm
> > and best of luck! I am actually trying to convince my office to go to
STBs
> > and not worry so much about color vis-a-vis lineweight. Rough.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Gordon Price
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 10 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Gordon

That was definitely worth a look. What i am trying to do though is organize
everything except job files. We have a lot of HR, ISO, Design guidelines,
checklists, mostly stuff people ignore if they can. Its very disorganized
because its not in the job flow and it comes from a lot of different
sources. the job directories are pretty well worked out because thats what
people care about and use.

thanks for the stuff about job phases, that was interesting.

I would disallow periods and parentheses in names. the only technical reason
is that i use access as a roll your own document manager and it needs
special programming or it bombs. Probably commercial programs would handle
it.

Terry

"Gordon Price" wrote in message
news:6FD6FA77988D069BBCBD94D7174891C7@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
>
> "Terry Priest" wrote in message
> news:316333B7474466D928816391B3F016F5@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > we are probably all about in the same boat. its the managers who want to
> > name a file "This is a letter i wrote on the plane which i think
everyone
> > should use.doc"
> >
> > or make 80 directories, its not apparent where the files are from the
top
> >
> > i just need an expert to agree with me. i havent found anything. i would
> > post it if i did.
> For what it is worth, you could use my stuff. I did some doco for small
> offices, and it does go into some detail. I guess it all depends on what
the
> management folks call an "expert". If they mean someone who people are
> thrilled to pay $300 an hour to, then I ain't it. On the other hand, if
they
> mean someone who knows a lot more about the issues than they do, I would
> argue just about everyone in the Cadmanager group qualifies 😉
> Anyway, take a look at
>
http://www.albedoconsulting.com/journal/folderstructure/folderstructure-00.h
> tm
> and best of luck! I am actually trying to convince my office to go to STBs
> and not worry so much about color vis-a-vis lineweight. Rough.
>
> Regards,
> Gordon Price
>
>
>
Message 11 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

"Terry Priest" wrote in message
news:DFC932175740101E9D56CA2E815D72FF@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Gordon
>
> That was definitely worth a look. What i am trying to do though is
organize
> everything except job files. We have a lot of HR, ISO, Design guidelines,
> checklists, mostly stuff people ignore if they can. Its very disorganized
> because its not in the job flow and it comes from a lot of different
> sources. the job directories are pretty well worked out because thats what
> people care about and use.
So your management folks are behind you on the need to have a good, clean
folder structure for projects, but they want a second opinion on the value
of the same thing for all the non-project specific stuff? Wow! To be honest,
I only wrote the stuff I did because I had never seen any book, website,
whatever, even mention the issue of folder structure. I have certainly never
seen anything on office management folder structure. I basically assumed
that once someone started using a good structure for projects, if they found
it valuable, the habit would cross to other files & folders. If they didn't
really value it, they wouldn't really implament it anyway. I guess that
really only works in a small office, where the person doing the project work
is also the person doing the admin work.
Now, the office I am in does something that you might find useful. We have
an office Project Proceedures Manual, and it lives on the server in a series
of folders broken down by chapter. If you have an Office Manual, you might
try using that as the basis of a folder structure. That way, it is not only
something that they are familiar with, it is something they have atleast
bought off on. Each "chapter" might have a folder that contains sub-folders
as needed, but the first level is given in the Office Manual and so allows a
place for management to let you start.
Let us know what works. I suspect a lot of CAD Managers want to tackle that
kind of thing after they get the project folders straigtened out. I suspect
I will be going there this summer when the new server arrives.
Best of luck,
Gordon

P.s. If anyone has any suggestions on what they do in a small office
environment, I would love to hear from you and add to the info on my
website.
Message 12 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

>So your management folks are behind you on the need to have a good, clean
>folder structure for projects, but they want a second opinion on the value
>of the same thing for all the non-project specific stuff? Wow!


Would a true document management system be a good
solution for this type of problem?

If yes.... you would NOT have to worry abt folder
structure at ALL, correct?
Message 13 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

wrote in message
news:k76v8uktmfdukeuhrurifgnqenu9qfsu0e@4ax.com...
> >So your management folks are behind you on the need to have a good, clean
> >folder structure for projects, but they want a second opinion on the
value
> >of the same thing for all the non-project specific stuff? Wow!
>
> Would a true document management system be a good
> solution for this type of problem?
>
> If yes.... you would NOT have to worry abt folder
> structure at ALL, correct?
For a large office perhaps, but for a small office the "document management"
systems are just too expensive. To my mind, a good folder structure and the
OS Find feature make a pretty functional system that costs nothing (extra).
I think it is valid for an architecture firm up to as many as 50 people. In
fact, if you use a good naming convention and folder structure, a really
large firm doesn't need doc managament. But then, the document management
industry exists because most users can't be bothered to to do it right, and
the office is forced to spend huge amounts of money on software to make up
for lazy users. I wonder how many users would keep being lazy if they where
told their bonus money was going to be used to pay for that doc managment
software 😉

Just my $0.02

Gordon
Message 14 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

>For a large office perhaps, but for a small office the "document management"
>systems are just too expensive. To my mind, a good folder structure and the
>OS Find feature make a pretty functional system that costs nothing (extra).
>I think it is valid for an architecture firm up to as many as 50 people. In
>fact, if you use a good naming convention and folder structure, a really
>large firm doesn't need doc managament. But then, the document management
>industry exists because most users can't be bothered to to do it right, and
>the office is forced to spend huge amounts of money on software to make up
>for lazy users. I wonder how many users would keep being lazy if they where
>told their bonus money was going to be used to pay for that doc managment
>software 😉

OK.... good points...and well taken.

I am just still trying to "see" the benefits of
document management systems....vs good folder
management.

That's all.
Message 15 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Go ahead and make my check out to Schell Enterprises Ltd.,

drew

call an "expert". If they mean someone who people are
> thrilled to pay $300 an hour to, then I ain't it. On the other hand, if
they
> mean someone who knows a lot more about the issues than they do, I would
> argue just about everyone in the Cadmanager group qualifies 😉
> Anyway, take a look at
>
http://www.albedoconsulting.com/journal/folderstructure/folderstructure-00.h
> tm
> and best of luck! I am actually trying to convince my office to go to STBs
> and not worry so much about color vis-a-vis lineweight. Rough.
>
> Regards,
> Gordon Price
>
>
>
Message 16 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Gordon Price wrote:

>
> Anyway, take a look at
> http://www.albedoconsulting.com/journal/folderstructure/folderstructure-00.htm

Hmph!
"An empty 06 BD folder will not give you cancer"
gag, choke, stutter

Just kidding, that's really well written & organized. Lots of good ideas.
Here's how we do it:

_PROJECTS
_DeadFiles
_Library
_Office-admin
Jones
Smith
Zabowski
etc...


Jones
archive
BoxIn
BoxOut
corresp
photos
cost
_BASE-jones.dwg
_SURVEY-jones.dwg
_BLDG-jones.dwg
_LAYOUT-jones.dwg
_GRADING-jones.dwg
other stuff.dwg
my temps.dwg
etc...

BoxIn (and the other folders are structured similar)
1999-02-31-surveyor
2000-06-26-architect
...
Message 17 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

An idea I've had, is to use a searchable database to direct you to the job
folders for examples & keeping up with each issue so you know which job dealt
with that most currrently. Many of these things are still developed as part of
the projects & the project folders are where the "live material" can be found.
If these things are kept in the job folders whenever possible, that's where they
will be most relevant.

I can definitely relate with your problem though. Those things tend to be a
mess. Our office admin folder is spinning out of control recently. Good
question!


Terry Priest wrote:

> What i am trying to do is organize everything except job files. We have a lot
> of HR, ISO, Design guidelines, checklists, mostly stuff people ignore if they
> can. Its very disorganized because its not in the job flow and it comes from a
> lot of different sources. the job directories are pretty well worked out
> because thats what people care about and use.
Message 18 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

yeah like Gordon said, there really isnt much on the internet on dir
structure guidelines except common sense (keep it simple, organized,
meaningful names blah blah) and highly specific rules for individual sites.
i did find a couple state dot manuals,

http://www.dot.state.co.us/DevelopProjects/designsupport/designmanual/

may be interesting to some

i use access a lot. the access 97 handbook by litwin, getz or something like
that has some subs to grab filenames, and somewhere else i got another
technique to put them into tables. then you can drop an activex viewer
(autovue is what i use) to make your own doc mgr. however its not a live
list, and takes upkeep. commercial doc mgrs are too expensive even for
somewhat larger companies. cad and erp are required costs. thats why the
free doc mgr columbus is interesting. its pretty limited, a slightly better
explorer, but it is a network version, its easy to set up and use. they have
a pretty good vision.


"Paul Furman" wrote in message
news:3C9059E2.BC932532@edgehill.net...
> An idea I've had, is to use a searchable database to direct you to the job
> folders for examples & keeping up with each issue so you know which job
dealt
> with that most currrently. Many of these things are still developed as
part of
> the projects & the project folders are where the "live material" can be
found.
> If these things are kept in the job folders whenever possible, that's
where they
> will be most relevant.
>
> I can definitely relate with your problem though. Those things tend to be
a
> mess. Our office admin folder is spinning out of control recently. Good
> question!
>
>
> Terry Priest wrote:
>
> > What i am trying to do is organize everything except job files. We have
a lot
> > of HR, ISO, Design guidelines, checklists, mostly stuff people ignore if
they
> > can. Its very disorganized because its not in the job flow and it comes
from a
> > lot of different sources. the job directories are pretty well worked out
> > because thats what people care about and use.
>
Message 19 of 19
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I wasn't really thinking about nailing down every document but simply
referencing the job name with a breif note about how that issue was handled in
each job. The tricky part is creating a structure for each "subject" so you can
find that subject. I suppose CSI number is as good a method as any but it would
be nicer to search by keyword. I think CSI has a place for placing local code
compliance & all sorts of tangential issues.

As an example, we started setting up a photo library & it seemed an outrageous
task to key in database keywords for every picture since there might be dozens
of photos for each job that all show the same item. It seems enough to list
somewhere which job has that item & be able to know which job was most recent &
a breif note explaining how it worked out or why it was done, etc.

The beauty of this system is, when you run across a useful little tidbit in
daily events, this database provides a common place to jot it down for future
reference. Not everything would need to be tied to a job or necessarily have a
file associated. It could just be that little note about how to detail something
to meet code or the latest product for a specific application. If it was used in
a job, then mention that. If it was used in dozens of jobs, that's good to know
for new people.



Terry Priest wrote:

> ...
> i use access a lot. the access 97 handbook by litwin, getz or something like
> that has some subs to grab filenames, and somewhere else i got another
> technique to put them into tables. then you can drop an activex viewer
> (autovue is what i use) to make your own doc mgr. however its not a live
> list, and takes upkeep. ...
>
> "Paul Furman" wrote
>
> > An idea I've had, is to use a searchable database to direct you to the job
> > folders for examples & keeping up with each issue so you know which job
> > dealt with that most currrently.

Can't find what you're looking for? Ask the community or share your knowledge.

Post to forums  

Administrator Productivity


Autodesk Design & Make Report