CAD test??

[Anonymous]

My manager has requested that we create a CAD test for future job
applicants. Has anyone got any tests or ideas that they currently use. Do
you just test CAD skills or attempt to include drafting skills. He wants it
to be a duration of half an hour.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Simon

[SMMASON]

I am not positive, but I think that it is illegal to perform such test. The best thing to possibly do is contact previous employers.

[Anonymous]

How could it be illegal to test somebodies
ability??

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"SMMASON" <
href="mailto:smmason@meadwestvaco.com">smmason@meadwestvaco.com> wrote
in message
href="news:f13b9e6.0@WebX.maYIadrTaRb">news:f13b9e6.0@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

I
am not positive, but I think that it is illegal to perform such test. The best
thing to possibly do is contact previous employers.

[SMMASON]

I just remember that discussion coming up when I worked for someone else. And that was the conclusion of the discussion. The reason: I don't know. Maybe something to do with the Equal Opportunity Act. I am not an attorney. Just contact one to find out if it is illegal or not prior to testing prospective employees.

[Anonymous]

I highly doubt it is illegal.  I used to work
for a company that did just that.  (Different field - not
AutoCAD)

--
Holly Whiting

-----------------------------------------------
I'm going to go ride my
bike now

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"SMMASON" <
href="mailto:smmason@meadwestvaco.com">smmason@meadwestvaco.com> wrote
in message
href="news:f13b9e6.2@WebX.maYIadrTaRb">news:f13b9e6.2@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

I
just remember that discussion coming up when I worked for someone else. And
that was the conclusion of the discussion. The reason: I don't know. Maybe
something to do with the Equal Opportunity Act. I am not an attorney. Just
contact one to find out if it is illegal or not prior to testing prospective
employees.

[SMMASON]

So that makes it legal? If you believe that it is legal to do so, go ahead and do it. I would contact an attorney for suggestions to CYA.

[Anonymous]

No.  That's not what makes it legal. 
It's legal because it's not against the law.  However, there are some
issues to be aware of.

A search on Google yielded this document from
Georgia State University:

Can I conduct skill
tests?

When evaluating an
individual's ability to perform technical or physical skills, you may wonder if
it's wise to have the individual to take a "test" of some sort. Unfortunately,
tests can be legally problematic unless they have been determined to be both
reliable and internally valid. If you want to administer a test to applicants,
please consult with Employment before proceeding.

That doesn't unilaterally
prohibit you from asking applicants to demonstrate how they would perform
certain tasks. A demonstration is different than a test in that it doesn't have
a passing or failing score or cutoff; it just provides you with a piece of
information you can use in considering the applicants. However, you should
exercise caution even in asking candidates to demonstrate skills. First, if you
ask one applicant, you must ask all of them. Second, you must only ask
individuals to demonstrate skills that represent essential functions of the job.
And third, a request for a demonstration must be accompanied by an offer to
allow candidates to demonstrate the skill "with or without reasonable
accommodation" -- which may be required by a individual with a disability, and
which, once requested, you may be obliged to provide.

--
Holly Whiting

-----------------------------------------------
I'm going to go ride my
bike now

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"SMMASON" <
href="mailto:smmason@meadwestvaco.com">smmason@meadwestvaco.com> wrote
in message
href="news:f13b9e6.6@WebX.maYIadrTaRb">news:f13b9e6.6@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

So
that makes it legal? If you believe that it is legal to do so, go ahead and do
it. I would contact an attorney for suggestions to
CYA.

[Anonymous]

But having a discussion about it makes it
illegal?  I work at a government lab and we test people all the time, if it
was the slightest bit in doubut they wouldn't do it.

The guy I took AutoCAD from tested new hires for
his company as well. His test was antiquated and no one that learned cad in
the last 5 years could pass it because he based his whole decision on if the
applicant could answer question after he drew the part, not if he could draw the
part! What shold dimexe be set to things like that.

RIch

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"SMMASON" <
href="mailto:smmason@meadwestvaco.com">smmason@meadwestvaco.com> wrote
in message
href="news:f13b9e6.6@WebX.maYIadrTaRb">news:f13b9e6.6@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

So
that makes it legal? If you believe that it is legal to do so, go ahead and do
it. I would contact an attorney for suggestions to
CYA.

[SMMASON]

Ok... so it may not be illegal (as stated is original post "I am not positive"). However, Holly's section clearly states "If you want to administer a test to applicants, please consult with Employment before proceeding." Who Employment is I am not sure. But consulting with an attorney about the proper way of administering the test that is not a test is, in general, a good idea.

[Anonymous]

Anyway, this whole thread is going to be deleted
soon because S. Smith cross-posted to the Cad Managers group, where this all
belongs.

--
Holly Whiting

-----------------------------------------------
I'm going to go ride my
bike now

[Anonymous]

I don't think you can test much of anything in half an hour unless you are hiring at minimum skill and wage. I would recommend at least 3 hrs. test that could only be completed in that time by the skill level you are looking for.
J.D.

[Anonymous]

http://www.xlquest.com/

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[rajuuk]

Guys,

Reading that article, I think you can give a test drawing that an average person takes about 1/2 hour to complete. We used to have it where I used to work and it works well. I dont have the file with me now but I will try to explain what it is. The test is an acad drawing printed on a paper. It has a rectangle with a circle inscribed in it with an equilateral triangle inscribed inside the circle. The rectangle is chamfered. There is a piece of text inside the triangle and the triangle is hatched with the hatch flowing around the text. There are dimensions for the rectangle. All this is xrefed into a title block that has attribute text entries for titles. The Paperspace Vport is scaled to display the drawing at a certain scale (1:100 or so). You can see that this tests some basic skills like Text, hatch, dimension, Xref, Paperspace concept, attributes and to an extend how the applicant manages to inscribe a triangle inside a circle inside a rectangle. Note that this test reflects what we needed but you may have to change it to test the skills you are looking for. There is no score or pass/fail criteria. You can watch how the candidate manages to draw this and decide for yourself the strong and weak points.

Cheers

Raju

[Anonymous]

You are almost correct about the legality
issue.  A company can be sued for not hiring an individual if they have
taken a test.  Issues such as this are governed by the State so the laws
will be different.  Like any other test, Cad tests are just a waste of
time.  I would rather have a person with a terrific work ethic, personality
and self motivated who has never used Cad before then a person with 10 years and
is still stagnating.

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"SMMASON" <
href="mailto:smmason@meadwestvaco.com">smmason@meadwestvaco.com> wrote
in message
href="news:f13b9e6.9@WebX.maYIadrTaRb">news:f13b9e6.9@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

Ok...
so it may not be illegal (as stated is original post "I am not positive").
However, Holly's section clearly states "If you want to administer a test to
applicants, please consult with Employment before proceeding." Who Employment
is I am not sure. But consulting with an attorney about the proper way of
administering the test that is not a test is, in general, a good
idea.

[Anonymous]

I can't agree with this less. Particularly the part about "Like any other
test..." My former employer used a test to gauge thinking skills. The
policy was not to hire unless the prospective employee passed the test. A
time or two they decided to hire anyway, but those employees did not work
out.

"Bill" wrote...

> (snip)
> Like any other test, Cad tests are just a waste of time. I would rather
have a person with a terrific work ethic, personality and self motivated who
has never used Cad before then a person with 10 years and is still
stagnating.

[Anonymous]

I don't think I could agree with
this.

In my time I've taken quite a few CAD tests and
have seen others take them.

IMHO, the usefulness of a CAD test is not so much
to test a person's skills, as to how they approach the program.

A test longer than 30mins is, I feel,
counter-productive. Either you ask the candidate to repeat the same steps over
and over again or you start asking them to start doing truly esoteric
things.

From what I've seen, a 15 min. test works well. You
can see who is confident in their CAD skills quickly and easily. You can gauge
their speed and accuracy, without getting into the realm of having to pay them
for their time.

Someone else on this thread mentioned an 8 hour CAD
test. If I was going to take that test, I'd want to be able to charge
for my time.

Of course, I am assuming (and I think everyone else
is, as well) that this is for vanilla AutoCAD, maybe ADT/LDD/Map. If you're
talking about high-end applications, then I wouldn't like to say.

Then again, 15 mins ought to be enough time for
(say) a competent 3d modeller to create something.

I feel that the purpose of  a CAD test is not,
"Can you re-create St. Paul's Cathedral?" but "How quickly can you draw these
few lines and some text?"

If a drafter can do the simple, bread-and-butter
drafting, then you can worry about the cathedral later.

I guess, my final point would be, you would
discover the drafter's ability during the interview then administer a simple
test to see whether he/she can "walk the walk" or just "talk the
talk."

--
Kevin Hayward

WLB Group

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"Bill" <billdog@msn.com> wrote
in message
href="news:5AD7DF5653A195DC22F75E183E30163C@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb">news:5AD7DF5653A195DC22F75E183E3......

You are almost correct about the legality
issue.  A company can be sued for not hiring an individual if they have
taken a test.  Issues such as this are governed by the State so the laws
will be different.  Like any other test, Cad tests are just a waste of
time.  I would rather have a person with a terrific work ethic,
personality and self motivated who has never used Cad before then a person
with 10 years and is still stagnating.

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"SMMASON" <
href="mailto:smmason@meadwestvaco.com">smmason@meadwestvaco.com>
wrote in message
href="news:f13b9e6.9@WebX.maYIadrTaRb">news:f13b9e6.9@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

Ok...
so it may not be illegal (as stated is original post "I am not positive").
However, Holly's section clearly states "If you want to administer a test to
applicants, please consult with Employment before proceeding." Who
Employment is I am not sure. But consulting with an attorney about the
proper way of administering the test that is not a test is, in general, a
good idea.

[Anonymous]

I agree. An 8 hour (or even 2 hour) test is something you might send
current employees to so you can put it in your marketing materials...


"Kevin Hayward" wrote in message
news:798F7AAC5F845D643A65BF85E5C133E8@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> I don't think I could agree with this.
>
> In my time I've taken quite a few CAD tests and have seen others take
them.
>
> IMHO, the usefulness of a CAD test is not so much to test a person's
skills, as to how they approach the program.
>
> A test longer than 30mins is, I feel, counter-productive. Either you ask
the candidate to repeat the same steps over and over again or you start
asking them to start doing truly esoteric things.
>
> From what I've seen, a 15 min. test works well. You can see who is
confident in their CAD skills quickly and easily. You can gauge their speed
and accuracy, without getting into the realm of having to pay them for their
time.
>
> Someone else on this thread mentioned an 8 hour CAD test. If I was going
to take that test, I'd want to be able to charge for my time.
>
> Of course, I am assuming (and I think everyone else is, as well) that this
is for vanilla AutoCAD, maybe ADT/LDD/Map. If you're talking about high-end
applications, then I wouldn't like to say.
>
> Then again, 15 mins ought to be enough time for (say) a competent 3d
modeller to create something.
>
> I feel that the purpose of a CAD test is not, "Can you re-create St.
Paul's Cathedral?" but "How quickly can you draw these few lines and some
text?"
>
> If a drafter can do the simple, bread-and-butter drafting, then you can
worry about the cathedral later.
>
> I guess, my final point would be, you would discover the drafter's ability
during the interview then administer a simple test to see whether he/she can
"walk the walk" or just "talk the talk."
>
> --
> Kevin Hayward
>
> WLB Group
> "Bill" wrote in message
news:5AD7DF5653A195DC22F75E183E30163C@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> You are almost correct about the legality issue. A company can be sued
for not hiring an individual if they have taken a test. Issues such as this
are governed by the State so the laws will be different. Like any other
test, Cad tests are just a waste of time. I would rather have a person with
a terrific work ethic, personality and self motivated who has never used Cad
before then a person with 10 years and is still stagnating.
> "SMMASON" wrote in message
news:f13b9e6.9@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Ok... so it may not be illegal (as stated is original post "I am not
positive"). However, Holly's section clearly states "If you want to
administer a test to applicants, please consult with Employment before
proceeding." Who Employment is I am not sure. But consulting with an
attorney about the proper way of administering the test that is not a test
is, in general, a good idea.