Well, it is amazing how much that I know that I have taken for granted.
After reviewing your list, You are packing alot in a one semester class.
Still wish they had time to at least be given the concept of xref's so that
they could have an idea what it even is. Most won't grasp it with minimal
instruction, but the good ones will see a benefit and explore it further on
their own. These are the people we all like to hire anyhow!
Again keep up the good work. The future of our profession rest on the
shoulders of guys like you who teach.
--
Larry
"Craig Black" wrote in message
news:5155910@discussion.autodesk.com...
I have been using AutoCAD since v2.18. I worked in industry as mechanical
designer, and as the CAD manager. I worked as a drafter on the board for 7
years before my company switched to AutoCAD. I taught part-time in the
evenings for two semesters before I took a full-time job at a technical
college, splitting my time between program courses and Autodesk Training
Center courses. I have been working in that position for 16 years. I bring
a wealth of practical knowledge of how it is done in business and industry
as well as a wealth of knowledge in the use of AutoCAD software to the
classroom. I will be the first to admit that I learn something new in every
single course I teach. Any instructor that says they don't is lying.
My point is that if you never had to sit down and write curriculum for a one
semester drafting course, or write curriculum for a one semester AutoCAD
course, do not even begin to challenge what I include in my course, but of
course I will listen. Teaching XREFs to a student that at the beginning of
the semester doesn't know how to:
Start the AutoCAD program from the Windows desktop
Identify the various user input tools available within the AutoCAD software
Manipulate pull-down menus to access commands
Modify toolbar locations and utilize them to access commands
Perform rudimentary tasks with the LINE, CIRCLE, and ERASE commands
Access context-sensitive menus and dialog boxes
Utilize AutoCAD's HELP command and INFO palette for self assistance
Identify functions of keyboard buttons as used in AutoCAD
Use keyboard to enter commands at command prompt
Left-click the pointing device to activate toolbar buttons, create points,
and select objects
Right-click the pointing device to access context-sensitive menus
Perform basic viewing operations using the scroll wheel/button on the mouse
Start a NEW drawing
SAVE the drawing to a specific name and location
OPEN an existing drawing
Close a drawing
Exit the AutoCAD program
Adjust GRID and SNAP settings
Set linear and angular UNIT settings
Set drawing LIMITS
Create and use a drawing template
Use various options of the ZOOM command, including
All Extents Previous Window Object
Save and name of VIEW for quicker re-viewing
Create multiple VIEWPORTS to view more than one area of a drawing at a time
Affect the display order of objects in a drawing
Draw lines accurately using the LINE command
Understand how to create points using
the pick button
Absolute coordinates
Relative coordinates
Polar coordinates
Direct Distance Entry
Use the Polar Tracking and Ortho tools
Delete objects using the ERASE command
Understand how to create a selection set using
Implied Windowing
Window
Crossing
WPolygon
CPolygon
Fence
Remove objects from a selection set
Undo previous operations
Draw circles accurately using the CIRCLE command and its options
Draw arcs accurately using the ARC command and its options
Draw ellipses accurately using the ELLIPSE command and its options
Draw polygons accurately using the POLYGON command and its options
Draw rectangles accurately using the RECTANG command and its options
Properly use the DONUT command
Mark up revisions to a drawing using the REVCLOUD command
Use object snap modes to create precision drawings
Use object snap overrides for single point selections
Set running object snap modes for continuous use
Use temporary tracking and AutoTrack modes to locate points relative to
other points in a drawing
Use the OFFSET command to draw parallel lines and curves
Divide existing objects into equal lengths using the DIVIDE command
Use the MEASURE command to set designated increments on an existing object
Create construction lines using the XLINE and RAY commands
Create new drawing layers
Manage drawing layers
Utilize AutoCAD Design Center to copy layers from one drawing to another
Access the Layer Properties Manager to change layer name, color, linetype,
lineweight, and status
Utilize the Layers toolbar drop-down to change layer status (on/off,
freeze/thaw, make current)
Create objects on the appropriate layer
Change layers of existing objects utilizing the drop-down from the Layers
toolbar and the PROPERTIES command
Use the drop-downs from the Properties toolbar to change an object's color,
linetype, and lineweight
Use the PROPERTIES command to change layers, colors, linetypes, and
lineweights
Utilize the MATCH PROPerties command to copy properties from one object to
others
Draw angled corners with the CHAMFER command
Utilize the FILLET command to round corners and clean up intersections
Remove portions of objects using the BREAK command
Use TRIM and EXTEND to modify objects in relationship to other objects
Change the placement of objects with the MOVE command
Make single and multiple copies of objects with the COPY command
Create objects in a reflected position with the MIRROR command
Change the placement angle of objects with the ROTATE command
Copy objects in a rectangular or circular pattern with the ARRAY command
Utilize the ALIGN command to move and copy objects in relationship to other
objects
Change the size of objects with the SCALE command
Modify the lengths and heights of single objects and groups of objects with
STRETCH and LENGTHEN
Utilize grips to edit objects with the STRETCH, COPY, MOVE, ROTATE, SCALE,
and MIRROR commands
Control the appearance and behavior of grips with the Options dialog box
Use the PLINE command to create polyline objects
Change the appearance of polylines while creating them with PLINE options
(width, halfwidth, arc, line, and close)
Utilize the PEDIT command to change polyline width
Create fit and spline curves from straight polylines with PEDIT
Straighten curved polylines with the decurve option of the PEDIT command
Join lines, arcs, and polylines together with the join option of the PEDIT
command
Separate polylines into lines and arcs with the EXPLODE command
Modify polyline vertex points with the PEDIT command and with grips
Use the SPLINE command to create open spline objects
Use the SPLINE command to create closed spline objects
Change the appearance of splines with the SPLINEDIT command
Change spline control points with the Refine option of the SPLINEDIT command
Use the AREA command to calculate the area of a closed object or series of
points
Measure the distance between 2 points with the DIST command
Utilize the LIST command to obtain information about objects
Identify a point's coordinate information with the ID command
Utilize the STATUS command to obtain current drawing information
Track time spent on a drawing with the TIME command
Use the TEXT command to create single-line text.
Create paragraphs or multiple lines of text with the MTEXT command
Find and use special text symbols
Check spelling with AutoCAD's spell checker
Create and use text styles to change and save the appearance of text
Edit existing text with the TEXTEDIT command
Change text properties with the PROPERTIES command
Utilize DIMLINEAR to create horizontal and vertical dimensions
Create aligned dimensions with DIMALIGNED
Dimension angles with DIMANGULAR
Dimension circles with DIMDIAMETER
Dimension arcs with DIMRADIUS
Create datum dimensions with DIMBASELINE
Create continued dimensions with DIMCONTINUE
Use the QLEADER command to draw specific notes with linked leader lines
Add center marks to circles and arcs with DIMCENTER
Create and utilize dimension styles to control the appearance of dimensions
Change the dimension style of existing dimensions
Use the PROPERTIES command to change a dimension's properties
Edit dimension text with the EDITTEXT command
Move and stretch dimension components with grips
Select a Hatch pattern from the Boundary Hatch dialog box
Control the hatch pattern scale and angle
Pick an enclosed point in the drawing to apply the hatch pattern
Edit existing hatch patterns
Insert existing blocks into the drawing using the INSERT command
Control the block's insertion point, scale, and rotation angle
Utilize TOOLPALETTES to drag and drop blocks into the drawing
Utilize the Design Center to insert blocks
Create a block from a group of objects using the MAKEBLOCK command
Pick an appropriate insertion base point for the block
Enter a name for the block
Utilize layer "0" to control appearance of the block when it is inserted
Utilize REFEDIT to change all instances of a block in the current drawing
Use the EXPLODE command to break down a block into it the components that
make it up
Redefine blocks by inserting, exploding, editing, and resaving an instance
with the same name
Use the PROPERTIES command to change a block's properties
Create a block as a drawing file with the WBLOCK command
Redefine all instances of a BLOCK by inserting a file with the same name
Save global blocks in a folder to create a block library
Save blocks in a single drawing to create a block library
Utilize Design Center to insert blocks from the block library
Create tool palettes from block libraries
Utilize the PLOT command to print or plot areas of the drawing from the
Model tab
Understand and instruct AutoCAD what to plot, e.g.; display, limits, window,
or extents
Select the correct plotter, paper size, and drawing orientation
Preview the plot before sending to the plotter
Utilize the Page Setup Manager to select the plotter
Utilize the Page Setup Manager to set the paper size
Utilize the Page Setup Manager to set the drawing orientation
Create copies of a layout in the current drawing and export to others
Draw the drawing border within the printable area of the layout
Draw the title block and populate it with the necessary information
Create new floating viewports in the layout
Modify the size and shape of floating viewports
Set the plot scale for the floating viewport
Control the visibility of layers within the floating viewports
Utilize the plot command to plot the existing layout
Preview the plot before sending the drawing to the plotter
? (Again, the question was: Do I teach XREFs to a first semester student
that doesn't know the above topics before the semester starts?)
Let me answer the question with another question: Are you CRAZY??? 🙂
Remember, you have 18 hours to lecture on the above topics, and the students
have two hours to work with the concepts covered during each hour of
lecture. In addition, you must now find a way to squeeze in XREFs. Sorry,
in my 16 years of experience, it cannot be done, nor does it belong in the
first semester. It belongs in an intermediate level class. End of story.
--
Craig
_______________
Dreamers don't have strategic grill locations...
"gomez" wrote in message
news:5155384@discussion.autodesk.com...
just because you teach (and I'm not just referring to you) doesn't mean
anything, i have an employee who is still going to school and comes back in
and says he had to show the instructor how to something in cad. plus he
completely amazed how he can finish a project in a couple of hours when the
instructor was planning on a week. if you only teach and don't understand
how other disciplines use the program, what's the point in teaching. i
learned more from a book and working than any cad instruction taught me.
"Craig Black" wrote in message
news:5155113@discussion.autodesk.com...
Have you ever taught a drafting course or an AutoCAD course?
--
Craig
_______________
Dreamers don't have strategic grill locations...
"larry" wrote in message
news:5155120@discussion.autodesk.com...
"I believe an earlier post mentioned "needing to show students how to use
XREFs". That is not a drafting topic, nor is it a first semester AutoCAD
topic..."
I tend to disagree with this statement. It most certainly is a drafting
topic. Again, thinking the whole process thru it becaomes very relevant.
Say I have a base .dwg with information that will be used on 15 different
sheets in a construction document set. Are you teaching them to fix any
mistakes in 15 different .dwg's or are you teaching them to fix it once?
And as far as not being a first semester ACAD topic, if is not it should be.
Some students never have more than the one semester class and then go to
work somewhere. It would be nice if the had some understanding as to how a
production enviroment works. And depending on the disipline, Xref's play a
major part of production drafting. This way several people can work on the
same project. At least in my world this is how it works.
--
Larry
"Craig Black" wrote in message
news:5155080@discussion.autodesk.com...
Thanks... my whole point is that teachers need to know when to teach the
software and when to teach drafting - they are definitively two different
courses...
I believe an earlier post mentioned "needing to show students how to use
XREFs". That is not a drafting topic, nor is it a first semester AutoCAD
topic...
--
Craig
_______________
Dreamers don't have strategic grill locations...
"larry" wrote in message
news:5155005@discussion.autodesk.com...
Craig,
I understand what you are saying, but I think what the others are trying to
say is that the thought procees involved with board drafting is very
important. When you start a drawing, you have to consider the scale,
orientation, line wieghts to express what you are trying to show, in
general, you have to think the whole process thru before you start. Per
your later post, I see that you are teaching this and that's great. But
most don't teach this and these kids are coming out without a clue how to
even set up a drawing, let alone the whole process. It is great to see
someone teaching this mentallity, and combineing that with cad.
Keep up the good work!!!
--
Larry
larrye@dabrownengineering.com
"Craig Black" wrote in message
news:5154960@discussion.autodesk.com...
no, no, no... you misunderstood. I have been *teaching* drafting via the
computer for last two years. I have been drafting since 1978, and using
AutoCAD since 1985. We just got rid of our manual drafting portion of the
curriculum two years ago. As you will see by my other subsequent posts, I
do teach sketching manually, but it ends there. Saying that you need to
learn manual drafting to appreciate the wonders of the CAD system is like
saying you need to learn to write with ink and feather quill to appreciate a
pencil.
--
Craig
_______________
Dreamers don't have strategic grill locations...
wrote in message news:5154702@discussion.autodesk.com...
Two years?
My what a wealth of experience - I am sure some people here could probably
top my 26 years of draughting - by hand or CAD - and I would say that you
need to learn how to hand draft - if only to produce neat sketches from site
visits etc , and yes you can teach orthographic and other projections in CAD
but you will only really appreciate how important they are when you do them
by hand and make a mistake - Its really a case of learning that attention to
detail and that everything you do matters and has an effect on the
appearance of the finished drawing. Drawings are a work of art when done
correctly - they have a nice and relaxing feel to them - done badly they are
just plain ugly and put you on edge just looking at them.