Autodesk's Version of Standards

[Anonymous]

This may sound like a stupid question, but I'm wondering how Autodesk came
up with their color scheme & lineweights for their AIA (2nd Edition) layer
standards. I have NCS 3.1 (as well as the older version). If NCS or AIA
specifies colors or lineweights for layers I must've missed it. The reason
I'm asking is we have additional layers (using AIA layering guildlines) that
I want to add... but I'm not sure if there's a color component in keeping
with standards. Can anyone help me out with this?

[cprettyman]

I heard an explanation at a seminar one time about how they looked at the indexed color palette (the 256 colors we all know and love) and identified percived bright spots, and then developed a strategy for keeping similar elements in the smae construction family, etc. What it all boiled down to was

They made it up on their own.

[Anonymous]

AutoDESK developed the AIA standards???


"Steven Craig Basham" wrote in
message news:4960295@discussion.autodesk.com...
This may sound like a stupid question, but I'm wondering how Autodesk came
up with their color scheme & lineweights for their AIA (2nd Edition) layer
standards. I have NCS 3.1 (as well as the older version). If NCS or AIA
specifies colors or lineweights for layers I must've missed it. The reason
I'm asking is we have additional layers (using AIA layering guildlines) that
I want to add... but I'm not sure if there's a color component in keeping
with standards. Can anyone help me out with this?

[cprettyman]

The AIA Standard is pretty much just names. ADESK built a layering standard into ADT, and some other applications that includes colors and linetypes, etc. Since the AIA never addressed that stuff, ADESK had to do something, and as far as I can tell, the only quasi-official standard in the US that addressed those issues was the one that was developed by the Coast Guard, and ultimately adopted by the US military. That's a great standard if you need to get the right color for the Mean High Water line, or if you are concerned about what layer the pilings that support your piers go one, but isn't really good for commercial architectural needs. So, in the end, as far as I can tell, ADESK just made something up.

[Anonymous]

You need to read further than the AIA Guidelines. All those do is specify a
naming convention. The NCS is a three part consensus standard consisting of
the AIA Layer Guidelines, the CSI Uniform Drawing System (UDS) and the
Tri-Services Plotting Guidelines. All of these work together.

Take walls as an example. The AIA Guidelines indicate that they should go on
"A-Wall" - that's where the name in the layer key style comes from. But
that's ALL that the AIA Guidelines contribute. The lineweight for walls is
specified in the UDS as "Wide", which is 0.5 mm (and yes, I know they should
usually be different for different scales - but I'm talking generalizations
here). Take a look at the layer key style - note that the lineweight
assigned to walls is 0.5 mm. Also note that if you're using named plot
styles, note that the plot style assigned is "Wide", which, in the "ADT
Standard" plot style table is assigned a lineweight of 0.5 mm. Looking at
the Tri-Services plotting guidelines you'll find that every other color that
ends with a "3" is assigned black as it's plotting color and a lineweight of
(you guessed it) 0.5 mm. So those are the colors you have to choose from if
you want to be in compliance with NCS and you're using color based plotting.
Realizing that some people use white as a background and some use black,
that's why color 113 is chosen for wall shrinkwrap. It's easily seen with
either color background.

Believe it or not, there was quite a bit of thought into how it all fits
together.

FYI - ADT 2004 through 2006 is NCS 2.0 compliant, however I've reviewed NCS
3.1 and the only change that would impact ADT that I can see is the
relaxation of requirements for the "Minor" fields in the AIA Layer
Guidelines, which allow for numbers in those fields as well as characters.

--

Matt Dillon
Autodesk Architectural Desktop Certified Expert

View my ADT Blog "Breaking Down the Walls" at
http://www.modocrmadt.blogspot.com

"Steven Craig Basham" wrote in
message news:4960295@discussion.autodesk.com...
This may sound like a stupid question, but I'm wondering how Autodesk came
up with their color scheme & lineweights for their AIA (2nd Edition) layer
standards. I have NCS 3.1 (as well as the older version). If NCS or AIA
specifies colors or lineweights for layers I must've missed it. The reason
I'm asking is we have additional layers (using AIA layering guildlines) that
I want to add... but I'm not sure if there's a color component in keeping
with standards. Can anyone help me out with this?

[Anonymous]

I wonder how many folks will have divergent opinions.

Time will tell. 🙂

--
Don Reichle
"King Of Work-Arounds"
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
--------------------------------------
LDT-2K4
AMD64 3200+
XPPro 32bit SP2
1GB RAM
Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 128MB
Western Digital Raptor 10K-rpm HD


wrote in message news:4961236@discussion.autodesk.com...
The AIA Standard is pretty much just names. ADESK built a layering standard
into ADT, and some other applications that includes colors and linetypes,
etc. Since the AIA never addressed that stuff, ADESK had to do something,
and as far as I can tell, the only quasi-official standard in the US that
addressed those issues was the one that was developed by the Coast Guard,
and ultimately adopted by the US military. That's a great standard if you
need to get the right color for the Mean High Water line, or if you are
concerned about what layer the pilings that support your piers go one, but
isn't really good for commercial architectural needs. So, in the end, as
far as I can tell, ADESK just made something up.

[Anonymous]

Actually, no. It wasn't made up. Compare the colors assigned to the objects
in the layer key style with those in the Tri-Services - they match and are
in compliance. I agree, however, that Tri-Services is out-dated at best and
more realistically asinine. I've got my own theory about how they found
their way into the NCS (which I've posted before), but I'll spare you that.

The good news is that you can completely bypass and ignore Tri-Services by
using either of the "LWT By Object" plot style tables (either the STB or CTB
files) and the lineweights used in the "Lineweight" column of the layer key
style, layer manager and display control dialogs will be what is plotted.
Color becomes completely irrelevant from a monochrome plotting standpoint,
as well they should be.

--

Matt Dillon
Autodesk Architectural Desktop Certified Expert

View my ADT Blog "Breaking Down the Walls" at
http://www.modocrmadt.blogspot.com

wrote in message news:4961236@discussion.autodesk.com...
The AIA Standard is pretty much just names. ADESK built a layering standard
into ADT, and some other applications that includes colors and linetypes,
etc. Since the AIA never addressed that stuff, ADESK had to do something,
and as far as I can tell, the only quasi-official standard in the US that
addressed those issues was the one that was developed by the Coast Guard,
and ultimately adopted by the US military. That's a great standard if you
need to get the right color for the Mean High Water line, or if you are
concerned about what layer the pilings that support your piers go one, but
isn't really good for commercial architectural needs. So, in the end, as
far as I can tell, ADESK just made something up.

[Anonymous]

snip>Color becomes completely irrelevant from a monochrome plotting
standpoint,
as well they should be.
And that would be a consideration for the Final Construction Plans of any
sort, but in the Preliminary Approval Process I've seen some Colored
"renderings" used with some fore-thought based on the use and market aspects
of the Project.

Especially in the realm of the High Ticket realm of housing here in SoCal.

--
Don Reichle
"King Of Work-Arounds"
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
--------------------------------------
LDT-2K4
AMD64 3200+
XPPro 32bit SP2
1GB RAM
Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 128MB
Western Digital Raptor 10K-rpm HD


"Matt Dillon" wrote in message
news:4961950@discussion.autodesk.com...
Actually, no. It wasn't made up. Compare the colors assigned to the objects
in the layer key style with those in the Tri-Services - they match and are
in compliance. I agree, however, that Tri-Services is out-dated at best and
more realistically asinine. I've got my own theory about how they found
their way into the NCS (which I've posted before), but I'll spare you that.

The good news is that you can completely bypass and ignore Tri-Services by
using either of the "LWT By Object" plot style tables (either the STB or CTB
files) and the lineweights used in the "Lineweight" column of the layer key
style, layer manager and display control dialogs will be what is plotted.
Color becomes completely irrelevant from a monochrome plotting standpoint,
as well they should be.

--

Matt Dillon
Autodesk Architectural Desktop Certified Expert

View my ADT Blog "Breaking Down the Walls" at
http://www.modocrmadt.blogspot.com

wrote in message news:4961236@discussion.autodesk.com...
The AIA Standard is pretty much just names. ADESK built a layering standard
into ADT, and some other applications that includes colors and linetypes,
etc. Since the AIA never addressed that stuff, ADESK had to do something,
and as far as I can tell, the only quasi-official standard in the US that
addressed those issues was the one that was developed by the Coast Guard,
and ultimately adopted by the US military. That's a great standard if you
need to get the right color for the Mean High Water line, or if you are
concerned about what layer the pilings that support your piers go one, but
isn't really good for commercial architectural needs. So, in the end, as
far as I can tell, ADESK just made something up.

[Anonymous]

Reply From: Randall Culp

DISPSILH will have no effect on SHADEMODE

[Anonymous]

Correct, but what does that have to do with AIA layers?

wrote in message news:4962090@discussion.autodesk.com...
Reply From: Randall Culp

DISPSILH will have no effect on SHADEMODE

[Anonymous]

I'm thinking it belonged in another thread?

--
Don Reichle
"King Of Work-Arounds"
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
--------------------------------------
LDT-2K4
AMD64 3200+
XPPro 32bit SP2
1GB RAM
Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 128MB
Western Digital Raptor 10K-rpm HD


"Randall Culp" wrote in message
news:4962218@discussion.autodesk.com...
Correct, but what does that have to do with AIA layers?

wrote in message news:4962090@discussion.autodesk.com...
Reply From: Randall Culp

DISPSILH will have no effect on SHADEMODE

[Anonymous]

Please read my statement again:

"Color becomes completely irrelevant from a monochrome plotting
standpoint"

I agree that color plotting is valuable, for presentation's sake. But using
color to control lineweight in a monochrome plot is ludicrous, inefficient
and downright stupid. Just because "we've always done it that way" doesn't
mean it's the right way. Ask anybody who's used MicroStation.

--

Matt Dillon
Autodesk Architectural Desktop Certified Expert

View my ADT Blog "Breaking Down the Walls" at
http://www.modocrmadt.blogspot.com

"Don Reichle" wrote in message
news:4962078@discussion.autodesk.com...
snip>Color becomes completely irrelevant from a monochrome plotting
standpoint,
as well they should be.
And that would be a consideration for the Final Construction Plans of any
sort, but in the Preliminary Approval Process I've seen some Colored
"renderings" used with some fore-thought based on the use and market aspects
of the Project.

Especially in the realm of the High Ticket realm of housing here in SoCal.

--
Don Reichle
"King Of Work-Arounds"
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
--------------------------------------
LDT-2K4
AMD64 3200+
XPPro 32bit SP2
1GB RAM
Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 128MB
Western Digital Raptor 10K-rpm HD


"Matt Dillon" wrote in message
news:4961950@discussion.autodesk.com...
Actually, no. It wasn't made up. Compare the colors assigned to the objects
in the layer key style with those in the Tri-Services - they match and are
in compliance. I agree, however, that Tri-Services is out-dated at best and
more realistically asinine. I've got my own theory about how they found
their way into the NCS (which I've posted before), but I'll spare you that.

The good news is that you can completely bypass and ignore Tri-Services by
using either of the "LWT By Object" plot style tables (either the STB or CTB
files) and the lineweights used in the "Lineweight" column of the layer key
style, layer manager and display control dialogs will be what is plotted.
Color becomes completely irrelevant from a monochrome plotting standpoint,
as well they should be.

--

Matt Dillon
Autodesk Architectural Desktop Certified Expert

View my ADT Blog "Breaking Down the Walls" at
http://www.modocrmadt.blogspot.com

wrote in message news:4961236@discussion.autodesk.com...
The AIA Standard is pretty much just names. ADESK built a layering standard
into ADT, and some other applications that includes colors and linetypes,
etc. Since the AIA never addressed that stuff, ADESK had to do something,
and as far as I can tell, the only quasi-official standard in the US that
addressed those issues was the one that was developed by the Coast Guard,
and ultimately adopted by the US military. That's a great standard if you
need to get the right color for the Mean High Water line, or if you are
concerned about what layer the pilings that support your piers go one, but
isn't really good for commercial architectural needs. So, in the end, as
far as I can tell, ADESK just made something up.

[Anonymous]

OK, sorry. 🙂

I was just making sure that you had thought of it. And making sure that the
masses could see the difference also.

--
Don Reichle
"King Of Work-Arounds"
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
--------------------------------------
LDT-2K4
AMD64 3200+
XPPro 32bit SP2
1GB RAM
Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 128MB
Western Digital Raptor 10K-rpm HD


"Matt Dillon" wrote in message
news:4962282@discussion.autodesk.com...
Please read my statement again:

"Color becomes completely irrelevant from a monochrome plotting
standpoint"

I agree that color plotting is valuable, for presentation's sake. But using
color to control lineweight in a monochrome plot is ludicrous, inefficient
and downright stupid. Just because "we've always done it that way" doesn't
mean it's the right way. Ask anybody who's used MicroStation.

--

Matt Dillon
Autodesk Architectural Desktop Certified Expert

View my ADT Blog "Breaking Down the Walls" at
http://www.modocrmadt.blogspot.com

"Don Reichle" wrote in message
news:4962078@discussion.autodesk.com...
snip>Color becomes completely irrelevant from a monochrome plotting
standpoint,
as well they should be.
And that would be a consideration for the Final Construction Plans of any
sort, but in the Preliminary Approval Process I've seen some Colored
"renderings" used with some fore-thought based on the use and market aspects
of the Project.

Especially in the realm of the High Ticket realm of housing here in SoCal.

--
Don Reichle
"King Of Work-Arounds"
"The only thing worse
than training your staff,
and having them leave is -
not training your staff,
and having them stay."
Courtesy Graphics Solution Providers
--------------------------------------
LDT-2K4
AMD64 3200+
XPPro 32bit SP2
1GB RAM
Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 128MB
Western Digital Raptor 10K-rpm HD


"Matt Dillon" wrote in message
news:4961950@discussion.autodesk.com...
Actually, no. It wasn't made up. Compare the colors assigned to the objects
in the layer key style with those in the Tri-Services - they match and are
in compliance. I agree, however, that Tri-Services is out-dated at best and
more realistically asinine. I've got my own theory about how they found
their way into the NCS (which I've posted before), but I'll spare you that.

The good news is that you can completely bypass and ignore Tri-Services by
using either of the "LWT By Object" plot style tables (either the STB or CTB
files) and the lineweights used in the "Lineweight" column of the layer key
style, layer manager and display control dialogs will be what is plotted.
Color becomes completely irrelevant from a monochrome plotting standpoint,
as well they should be.

--

Matt Dillon
Autodesk Architectural Desktop Certified Expert

View my ADT Blog "Breaking Down the Walls" at
http://www.modocrmadt.blogspot.com

wrote in message news:4961236@discussion.autodesk.com...
The AIA Standard is pretty much just names. ADESK built a layering standard
into ADT, and some other applications that includes colors and linetypes,
etc. Since the AIA never addressed that stuff, ADESK had to do something,
and as far as I can tell, the only quasi-official standard in the US that
addressed those issues was the one that was developed by the Coast Guard,
and ultimately adopted by the US military. That's a great standard if you
need to get the right color for the Mean High Water line, or if you are
concerned about what layer the pilings that support your piers go one, but
isn't really good for commercial architectural needs. So, in the end, as
far as I can tell, ADESK just made something up.

[Anonymous]

"Matt Dillon" wrote
But using color to control lineweight in a monochrome plot is ludicrous,
inefficient
and downright stupid.

Unless, of course it's already setup that way, and color settings are a
client requirement, in which case it makes complete sense, and is as
efficient as any other method.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Matt Dillon" wrote
Just because "we've always done it that way" doesn't
mean it's the right way. Ask anybody who's used MicroStation.

I understand the desire to Microstation and "stupid" in the same sentence,
especially pertaining to plotting, but I'm missing your point here, unless
you're attempting to promote MSTA's extremely lame attempt at WYSIWYG as
something intelligent.

[Anonymous]

I realize that it may have already been set up that way, and that migrating
off of it may take time, or that it may be required by a client.

But to choose to do it for any other reason is ridiculous, speaking as one
who did it that way for many years myself.

--

Matt Dillon
Autodesk Architectural Desktop Certified Expert

View my ADT Blog "Breaking Down the Walls" at
http://www.modocrmadt.blogspot.com

"Randall Culp" wrote in message
news:4962338@discussion.autodesk.com...
"Matt Dillon" wrote
But using color to control lineweight in a monochrome plot is ludicrous,
inefficient
and downright stupid.

Unless, of course it's already setup that way, and color settings are a
client requirement, in which case it makes complete sense, and is as
efficient as any other method.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Matt Dillon" wrote
Just because "we've always done it that way" doesn't
mean it's the right way. Ask anybody who's used MicroStation.

I understand the desire to Microstation and "stupid" in the same sentence,
especially pertaining to plotting, but I'm missing your point here, unless
you're attempting to promote MSTA's extremely lame attempt at WYSIWYG as
something intelligent.

[Anonymous]

Can I get an "Amen"!

...........I've been feeling very alone about that..........hehehe.

"Matt Dillon" wrote in message
news:4962282@discussion.autodesk.com...

I agree that color plotting is valuable, for presentation's sake. But using
color to control lineweight in a monochrome plot is ludicrous, inefficient
and downright stupid. Just because "we've always done it that way" doesn't
mean it's the right way. Ask anybody who's used MicroStation.

[Anonymous]

There's more of us than you think. We meet every Thursday night out in Mrs.
Miller's barn - just outside of town.

But don't tell anybody.

--

Matt Dillon
Autodesk Architectural Desktop Certified Expert

View my ADT Blog "Breaking Down the Walls" at
http://www.modocrmadt.blogspot.com

"TomD" wrote in message
news:4962630@discussion.autodesk.com...
Can I get an "Amen"!

...........I've been feeling very alone about that..........hehehe.

"Matt Dillon" wrote in message
news:4962282@discussion.autodesk.com...

I agree that color plotting is valuable, for presentation's sake. But using
color to control lineweight in a monochrome plot is ludicrous, inefficient
and downright stupid. Just because "we've always done it that way" doesn't
mean it's the right way. Ask anybody who's used MicroStation.

[Anonymous]

Reply From: Randall Carp Gacy
Date: Sep/20/05 - 18:28 (CDT)

Re: Autodesk's Version of Standards
Correct, but what does that have to do with AIA layers?

wrote in message news:4962090@discussion.autodesk.com...
Reply From: Randall Carp Gacy

DISPSILH will have no effect on SHADEMODE

*****

I want you to go to Galveston and I'll meet you there Friday night. Hurry! It's important.