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Autodesk offers ... 25-30% off ... upgrading from R12-2000

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Message 1 of 34
Anonymous
419 Views, 33 Replies

Autodesk offers ... 25-30% off ... upgrading from R12-2000

from upFront.eZine Publishing And Autodesk offers customers in Australia and New Zealand 25-30% off the full price of AutoCAD 2005 when upgrading from R12-2000 -- with purchase of a one-year subscription; discount is 20-25% without the sub. http://www.autodesk.com.au/loyalty ---- I thought you could not upgrade from before 2000i? Too bad this is not availble in the US. Its a nice deal compared to full price upgrades. David
33 REPLIES 33
Message 2 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

>>Its a nice deal compared to full price upgrades. And it conveniently hoses the subscription members that have been paying all along. I hope this never occurs in the US. This is my single biggest frustration with Subscription. As soon as Autodesk needs an influx of sales, they offer upgrade pricing to all of the dead product holders and punish the people that paid for development. It should be punitive technologically and fiscally to fall off of the upgrade wagon, not a savings plan. -- James Wedding, P.E. IT Manager Jones & Boyd, Inc. Dallas, TX XP/1 on P4-1.6/512 LDT2004+C3D
Message 3 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Exactly............... A bit of a roll of the dice though. But since you can never keep shareholders happy forever it's probably a safe bet that it will happen again in the future. Some quarter will be bad and need an emergency influx of cash. "James Wedding" wrote in message news:40854eb4$1_3@newsprd01... > >>Its a nice deal compared to full price upgrades. > > And it conveniently hoses the subscription members that have been paying all > along. I hope this never occurs in the US. > > This is my single biggest frustration with Subscription. As soon as Autodesk > needs an influx of sales, they offer upgrade pricing to all of the dead > product holders and punish the people that paid for development. It should > be punitive technologically and fiscally to fall off of the upgrade wagon, > not a savings plan. > > -- > James Wedding, P.E. > IT Manager > Jones & Boyd, Inc. > Dallas, TX > XP/1 on P4-1.6/512 > LDT2004+C3D > >
Message 4 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Isn't this what they call a Legacy Upgrade? I thought anyone could do it. Shawn "David Allen" <*@*.com> wrote in message news:poha801trb0qevtfgbbg7jfjdicf13eaq4@4ax.com... > from upFront.eZine Publishing > > And Autodesk offers customers in Australia and New Zealand 25-30% off the full price of AutoCAD 2005 when upgrading from > R12-2000 -- with purchase of a one-year subscription; discount is 20-25% without the sub. > http://www.autodesk.com.au/loyalty > > ---- > > I thought you could not upgrade from before 2000i? Too bad this is not availble in the US. Its a nice deal compared to > full price upgrades. > > David
Message 5 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

They regularly announce the "death" of a version - the point at which it is no longer supported or upgradable. All versions prior to 2000i are supposed to be dead. -- Jon Rizzo Langan Engineering and Environmental Services, Inc. "Shawn Caldwell" wrote in message news:40857760$1_1@newsprd01... > Isn't this what they call a Legacy Upgrade? I thought anyone could do it. > > Shawn > > > "David Allen" <*@*.com> wrote in message > news:poha801trb0qevtfgbbg7jfjdicf13eaq4@4ax.com... > > from upFront.eZine Publishing > > > > And Autodesk offers customers in Australia and New Zealand 25-30% off the > full price of AutoCAD 2005 when upgrading from > > R12-2000 -- with purchase of a one-year subscription; discount is 20-25% > without the sub. > > http://www.autodesk.com.au/loyalty > > > > ---- > > > > I thought you could not upgrade from before 2000i? Too bad this is not > availble in the US. Its a nice deal compared to > > full price upgrades. > > > > David > >
Message 6 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

>> And it conveniently hoses the subscription members that have been paying all along.<<

How does this hose subscription users?
Message 7 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Because inevitably, the price they offer to dead product users is less than the subscription costs were. -- James Wedding, P.E. IT Manager Jones & Boyd, Inc. Dallas, TX XP/1 on P4-1.6/512 LDT2004+C3D
Message 8 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

hmmm... I don't see it. So, if a guy's been using R9 for the last dozen years and now buys R2005 at the full price he is somehow hosing subscription users because he paid less for it than all the upgrades costs would have been? A guy who upgrades from V1.8 hoses us even more?

Those of us who upgrade with some regularity do so to gain the advantage of the newer features of the software. We are not hosed by those who choose to forego the newer features in favor of saving some cash.
Message 9 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Just curious, if I said the sun was yellow, would you argue with me just for fun? I think that subscription should make sense from a financial and technology sense, just like I said few posts back. Now you're just being a troll, and I'm done with it. -- James Wedding, P.E. IT Manager Jones & Boyd, Inc. Dallas, TX XP/1 on P4-1.6/512 LDT2004+C3D
Message 10 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

the deal was for R12 not R9 I upgraded some 2000 seats last October to 2004 and got a great end of quarter discount. I did the math and we saved money instead of doing subscription because of the big promotion discounts. I hope to pull the same rabbit out of the hat this next October. OLD-CADaver |>hmmm... I don't see it. So, if a guy's been using R9 for the last dozen years and now buys R2005 at the full price he is somehow hosing subscription users because he paid less for it than all the upgrades costs would have been? A guy who upgrades from V1.8 hoses us even more? |> |>Those of us who upgrade with some regularity do so to gain the advantage of the newer features of the software. We are not hosed by those who choose to forego the newer features in favor of saving some cash. David
Message 11 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

David, But think of all the lost money due to lower productivity which is a real cost. If you users can accomplish something faster in the new release, then holding back for years to save $100 makes no cents. But upgrading or subscription is a choice for the customer and if you want to upgrade later instead of a subscription, that is your choice and each have their own requirements. Cheers, -Shaan "David Allen" <*@*.com> wrote in message news:5r4e80p24nuie4up0rqut99rudtsirhqul@4ax.com... > the deal was for R12 not R9 > > I upgraded some 2000 seats last October to 2004 and got a great end of quarter discount. I did the math and we saved > money instead of doing subscription because of the big promotion discounts. I hope to pull the same rabbit out of the > hat this next October. > > OLD-CADaver > |>hmmm... I don't see it. So, if a guy's been using R9 for the last dozen years and now buys R2005 at the full price he is somehow hosing subscription users because he paid less for it than all the upgrades costs would have been? A guy who upgrades from V1.8 hoses us even more? > |> > |>Those of us who upgrade with some regularity do so to gain the advantage of the newer features of the software. We are not hosed by those who choose to forego the newer features in favor of saving some cash. > > > David
Message 12 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

This is the old Express Tools argument all over again. VIP people paid for ET and got them, while others didn't. Then they were given away for 4 months. Then they were being sold to those not on subscription. A lot of guys who suddenly wanted Express Tools screamed they were being ripped off. Then the subscribers got worried that if Autodesk gave away Express Tools on a regular basis, subscribers would be ripped off. To me, I bought VIP and subscription. I got my Express Tools when Bonus Tools was changed to Express Tools. I received free upgrades, and quarterly updates on Express Tools for a couple of years. I was happy. I am still happy. I never begrudged those who were able to take advantage of that small window when they could get Express Tools for free. I am talking about the VIP Express Tools, not the abbreviated version that came with AutoCAD 2000. That one was free, but was an abridged version. Should I be upset because someone is getting a 25% discount on upgrades from 2000i to 2005? I don't think so. If anything, I rejoice because the sooner everyone is up to date the better for all of us. All of us lose time trying to convert our files to the lowest common denominator of our consultants. When they finally upgrade it will make our work less problematical. My blood pressure was 140 over 93 today. My doctor wants it at 130 over 80. Why should I get upset because somebody gets a great deal? I got a good deal that made sense to me at the time of my purchase. If someone can get a better deal at a later date, or even the same date, more power to them. Now if Autodesk said they were going to bill everyone who received 2005 as a free update via subscription, say 25% to make up for Australia getting a discount....that I would scream about...or worse. Jack
Message 13 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Think of all the money he saved by not having to deploy a new version every 12 months. -- Jon Rizzo Langan Engineering and Environmental Services, Inc. "Shaan Hurley, Autodesk, Inc." wrote in message news:40872f4c$1_2@newsprd01... > David, > > But think of all the lost money due to lower productivity which is a real > cost. If you users can accomplish something faster in the new release, then > holding back for years to save $100 makes no cents. But upgrading or > subscription is a choice for the customer and if you want to upgrade later > instead of a subscription, that is your choice and each have their own > requirements. > > Cheers, > -Shaan > > "David Allen" <*@*.com> wrote in message > news:5r4e80p24nuie4up0rqut99rudtsirhqul@4ax.com... > > the deal was for R12 not R9 > > > > I upgraded some 2000 seats last October to 2004 and got a great end of > quarter discount. I did the math and we saved > > money instead of doing subscription because of the big promotion > discounts. I hope to pull the same rabbit out of the > > hat this next October. > > > > OLD-CADaver > > |>hmmm... I don't see it. So, if a guy's been using R9 for the last dozen > years and now buys R2005 at the full price he is somehow hosing subscription > users because he paid less for it than all the upgrades costs would have > been? A guy who upgrades from V1.8 hoses us even more? > > |> > > |>Those of us who upgrade with some regularity do so to gain the advantage > of the newer features of the software. We are not hosed by those who choose > to forego the newer features in favor of saving some cash. > > > > > > David > >
Message 14 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

A good argument, thanks Jack. It's just hard to think of all those reasons when my boss gets the mailer offering huge discounts for upgrades, asks me what we paid for subscription., then asks me why I made that decision. It can be frustrating. God, I do wish everyone would upgrade. Maybe then my LDT 2005 drawings wouldn't be such a headache for all the people they go to. Thanks again! -- James Wedding, P.E. IT Manager Jones & Boyd, Inc. Dallas, TX XP/1 on P4-1.6/512 LDT2004+C3D
Message 15 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

>>the deal was for R12 not R9 <<

You missed my point. The guy upgrading for the full price from R9 still paid a LOT less for R2005 than those of us who upgrade at every release. The loss for both guys, whether paying full price from R9 or a discounted price from R12, is in the productivity gains each interim release offered.

Getting a deal hoses no one.

>>I upgraded some 2000 seats last October to 2004 and got a great end of quarter discount<<

Silly me. I had to read that twice before I snapped that it was "R"2000, not 2000 count. I was gonna say I hope you got a deal for bulk. We were mandated by corporate to subscription, and I think they got a substantial deal for bulk. World-wide, corporate is responsible for around 9,000-10,000 seats of AutoCAD and associated ADESK products.
Message 16 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Jon, I think that is negligible in the grander scheme but depends on many factors and how well organized you are. A deployment can be from minutes to months depending on many factors. Also on the subscription there is support and the license ability to run the upgraded releases in your network to ease the deployment and migrations. Again, it is your choice. Cheers, -Shaan "Jon Rizzo" wrote in message news:4087b2f2_2@newsprd01... > Think of all the money he saved by not having to deploy a new version every > 12 months. > > -- > Jon Rizzo > Langan Engineering and Environmental Services, Inc. > > > "Shaan Hurley, Autodesk, Inc." wrote in message > news:40872f4c$1_2@newsprd01... > > David, > > > > But think of all the lost money due to lower productivity which is a real > > cost. If you users can accomplish something faster in the new release, > then > > holding back for years to save $100 makes no cents. But upgrading or > > subscription is a choice for the customer and if you want to upgrade later > > instead of a subscription, that is your choice and each have their own > > requirements. > > > > Cheers, > > -Shaan > > > > "David Allen" <*@*.com> wrote in message > > news:5r4e80p24nuie4up0rqut99rudtsirhqul@4ax.com... > > > the deal was for R12 not R9 > > > > > > I upgraded some 2000 seats last October to 2004 and got a great end of > > quarter discount. I did the math and we saved > > > money instead of doing subscription because of the big promotion > > discounts. I hope to pull the same rabbit out of the > > > hat this next October. > > > > > > OLD-CADaver > > > |>hmmm... I don't see it. So, if a guy's been using R9 for the last > dozen > > years and now buys R2005 at the full price he is somehow hosing > subscription > > users because he paid less for it than all the upgrades costs would have > > been? A guy who upgrades from V1.8 hoses us even more? > > > |> > > > |>Those of us who upgrade with some regularity do so to gain the > advantage > > of the newer features of the software. We are not hosed by those who > choose > > to forego the newer features in favor of saving some cash. > > > > > > > > > David > > > > > >
Message 17 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Shaan - you are thinking like a programmer and not a manager or owner who owns/runs a design firm and pays staff. My basic business rule for CAD: Increased productivity via CAD means one of two things: 1. You can do the same amout of CAD work in less time therefore for the increased productivity to be beneficial the "sales force" must "sell" more work for the staff who now does the same amount of work in less time - otherwise staff sits around with nothing to do between projects unless there are more projects to accomplish in the given hours for a work year. 2. You can do the same amount of CAD work with less people; therefore, you can reduce staff - layoffs! Less staff - that's where the real savings appear! Remember - CAD is only one portion of a design project and from my perspective - at the most, maybe half. The other half is knowledge, code research, meetings, design thought, coordination, etc. There are only so many hours in a day that can be devoted to a project so any reduction in CAD hours needs to be filled with other means of productivity otherwise the increased productivity is lost to non-billable hours. Carol Bartz is using this same reasoning when Autodesk publically announces that they are shipping some of their programming to programmers overseas and reducing their staff here in the USA. Autodesk management obviously is hoping that Autodesk will achieve the same programming productivity at a reduced cost - another variation of items 1 and 2 above - pay people less and yet achieve the same productivity. Time will tell! "Shaan Hurley, Autodesk, Inc." wrote in message news:40872f4c$1_2@newsprd01... > David, > > But think of all the lost money due to lower productivity which is a real > cost. If you users can accomplish something faster in the new release, then > holding back for years to save $100 makes no cents. But upgrading or > subscription is a choice for the customer and if you want to upgrade later > instead of a subscription, that is your choice and each have their own > requirements. > > Cheers, > -Shaan > > "David Allen" <*@*.com> wrote in message > news:5r4e80p24nuie4up0rqut99rudtsirhqul@4ax.com... > > the deal was for R12 not R9 > > > > I upgraded some 2000 seats last October to 2004 and got a great end of > quarter discount. I did the math and we saved > > money instead of doing subscription because of the big promotion > discounts. I hope to pull the same rabbit out of the > > hat this next October. > > > > OLD-CADaver > > |>hmmm... I don't see it. So, if a guy's been using R9 for the last dozen > years and now buys R2005 at the full price he is somehow hosing subscription > users because he paid less for it than all the upgrades costs would have > been? A guy who upgrades from V1.8 hoses us even more? > > |> > > |>Those of us who upgrade with some regularity do so to gain the advantage > of the newer features of the software. We are not hosed by those who choose > to forego the newer features in favor of saving some cash. > > > > > > David > >
Message 18 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Marshall, I was not painting a wide brush as each is unique and not all would see things your or my way so each has to make their own decision and at least there are options and upgrades instead of only a subscription offering. I was basing my comments on my past customer experience not Autodesk experience. I know those that held on 9 and 10 were really missing out and could not come close to the productivity as R12. The same was true of my fellow cad users that held onto DOS instead of being able to use the design tools and CAD at the same time when doing engineering design work. ROI and benefit is a complex thing and differs greatly on many factors. Cheers, -Shaan "Marshall Caudle" wrote in message news:4087e64d$1_3@newsprd01... > Shaan - you are thinking like a programmer and not a manager or owner who > owns/runs a design firm and pays staff. >
Message 19 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

>>There are only so many hours in a day that can be devoted to a project so any reduction in CAD hours needs to be filled with other means of productivity otherwise the increased productivity is lost to non-billable hours. <<

I was right there with ya' until this. You seem to be saying that if now it takes 40 hours to complete a drawing set and increased production means it only takes 32 hours next week, you gonna lose 8 hours to non-billable?

If that's the case, you can reduce your fees by 20% which will makes sales a load easier. I dunno, I've worked for large companies and places where I was the only guy in my dept. And I don't care how fast we got it out, there was always something to do. Developement, improve standards, migrate an upgrade, a new project, or a resume to update.
Message 20 of 34
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

OLD-CADaver: Shaan will get no argument from me that AutoCAD has certainly become a better product to use with major improvements going from r14 to r2000 and r2000 to 2004. From my perspective the jury is still out on r2005. I've gone through the turorials on "Sheet Manager and Layer manager" and so far they seem too complicated to mess with - I'm still using the beta and probably will until it expires and then will decide whether or not to load my copy of R2005 or stick with R2004. Personally, I'm not real keen on this hardware/software activation lock - just something else to go wrong. R2004's Layer Manager worked fine. I'll have to agree with Shaan in that my CAD time on a project does seem to be consuming less of my time on a project that it did with earlier versions. Some of that I attribute to AutoCAD's improvements and some I attribute to third party "add-on's" by Terry Dotson and Owen Wengard and countless other lisp routines generously shared by so many on this peer to peer network. I said productivity improvements in billable hours. Granted there is generally always something to do in a design office but improve standards, migrate an upgrade, a new project or update a resume are not "billable" hours. What I'm trying to say is that for there to be a gain in productivity and hence the income benefit, the 8 hours really needs to be moved to something that produces income. If the project is a lump sum fee - great, then the 8 hours saved on Project A and moved to another billable Project B is money ahead or as you said, one can reduce the CAD fee by 20%. Since CAD is only a portion of a project, it would make no sense to reduce the total fee 20%. If the project is an hourly fee basis, then you have lost 8 hours of billable time and it "cost you to upgrade to boot" so you are actually losing money by upgrading in that scenario. I've also worked with and for some of the largest firms in the US as well as the largest bureaucracy (the VA) in our federal government and the inefficiencies astounded me. They are almost like the government. What I observed at most of them is that they have clients willing to pay for projects at hourly rates set by the firm and generally those projects don't have a maximum so productivity is not an issue. Since there's a profit factor built into each hourly rate, the more hours the better! "OLD-CADaver" wrote in message news:27827457.1082651214184.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost... > >>There are only so many hours in a day that can be devoted to a project so any reduction in CAD hours needs to be filled with other means of productivity otherwise the increased productivity is lost to non-billable hours. << > > I was right there with ya' until this. You seem to be saying that if now it takes 40 hours to complete a drawing set and increased production means it only takes 32 hours next week, you gonna lose 8 hours to non-billable? > > If that's the case, you can reduce your fees by 20% which will makes sales a load easier. I dunno, I've worked for large companies and places where I was the only guy in my dept. And I don't care how fast we got it out, there was always something to do. Developement, improve standards, migrate an upgrade, a new project, or a resume to update.

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