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Message 1 of 56
Alian
6422 Views, 55 Replies

Autodesk for Linux

Any info about running AutoCAD or Inventor on Linux
55 REPLIES 55
Message 41 of 56
irneb
in reply to: Alian

OK, this is starting to become a slinging match - you say I don't know about MS OS's - unfortunately I've been programming in them for some time (also in Linux). Both are only slightly OO (see below):

Yes I know the libraries are OO, as is most of the libraries for any new OS. My point is that the base OS is still Procedural - all those libraries do is map an Object Oriented interface to the underlying Procedural functions.

Not as per the JavaOS (from Sun Microsystems), which is class based from the get go. Providing all those nifty stuff such as inheritance, encapsulation, abstraction & polymorphism at a binary level, making a programmer's life heaven compared to procedural. Components are added to it by simply adding a class file - without the problems of unexpected overloading, memory clashes, etc. Which is usually a great headache for programmers. Since you don't know what other programs your users has on his system, which drivers, add-ons to the OS, etc. With OO you don't have to worry about most of that. In the MFC (as well as the Linux classes) you simply have the ability to program your own program using OO - you don't get the same "sandbox" effect between your program and someone else's. Therefore, if any one of the programs don't follow some basic rules, you're sure to get conflicts. Even if they do follow rules, the chances are that conflicts could occur.

A big example of this was when people noticed that AutoCAD did not want to run if you had Norton Anti-Virus installed. It wasn't AutoDesk's fault, Norton used some memory allocation which clashed with AutoCAD - strictly speaking, it wasn't Norton's fault either. Neither company knew what the other was doing until it was too late. With an OO base OS, this would never have happened.

Unfortunately current OS systems are lagging far behind cutting edge programming techniques. Simply because an OS needs to be robust - not allowing for to much experimentation.
Message 42 of 56
irneb
in reply to: Alian

The true situation about OS's is that they're all based on a pre-selected Programming Language. Most OS's these days stem from the C programming language (especially MS & Linux). As the language also got extended (C++ has some OO elements built on top of normal C) so did the OS. There's very few truly OO programming languages, most so-called OO "capable" languages only add an interface onto the existing thing (C++, VB, Delhi, Ada, Fortran). You get "pure" OO programming languages such as SmallTalk, Eiffel & Ruby, and then OO languages with some procedural elements built in such as Java & Python. The most however are procedural with extensions to provide OO features, such as C++, Fortran 2003, Perl.

Here's a link to what this really means: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-oriented_operating_system

So you get 3 different types of OO: 1. what the user sees & how he/she interacts, 2. How the programmer creates the program, and 3. an actual OO implemented OS. As you can see from the above link, point 3 is far from becoming a reality. Some OS's use only portions of OO - while most provide point 1 (event driven interaction) and some provide point 2 (foundation classes as an API).
Message 43 of 56
dgorsman
in reply to: Alian

Even the most OOP oriented language, still needs to go to linear based programming at some point. Computers still run operations one at a time, even if it splits them across multiple cores or implements a time sharing arrangement between multiple applications.
----------------------------------
If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.
"I don't know" is the beginning of knowledge, not the end.


Message 44 of 56
Anonymous
in reply to: Alian

On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:24:51 +0000, irneb <> wrote:

>The true situation about OS's is that they're all based on a pre-selected Programming Language. Most OS's these days stem from the C programming language (especially MS & Linux). As the language also got extended (C++ has some OO elements built on top of normal C) so did the OS. There's very few truly OO programming languages, most so-called OO "capable" languages only add an interface onto the existing thing (C++, VB, Delhi, Ada, Fortran). You get "pure" OO programming languages such as SmallTalk, Eiffel & Ruby, and then OO languages with some procedural elements built in such as Java & Python. The most however are procedural with extensions to provide OO features, such as C++, Fortran 2003, Perl.
>
>Here's a link to what this really means: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-oriented_operating_system

Ah, the ubiquitous Wikipedia article linked to give an argument some strength.
Gotta love it.

You seem to think that just because an OS is purely Object Oriented, that that
somehow makes it exceptional above all others, and all other OSes to be crap in
comparison.

What you don't mention is any reference to the idea that you write OO code in a
much higher level language than something like C++, and with every higher order
of programming means it is built on abstraction after abstraction, as C++ is
higher level than C, which is a higher level than Assembly, which is higher than
pure machine code.

Thus, a completely OO-based OS may not be the best thing, or even a good thing,
because what you want in an OS is lighting fast efficient code - you rarely get
that with OO code because it was built to make programming easier, not for speed
or efficiency. Just because it is OO doesn't make it a wonderful OS to work with
on a daily basis

JavaOS may be a wonderful example of an OS built on OO based programming from
the ground up. Might also be nice to hear from a person who actually USES it.
And, if you read your linked article, you would see that the kernel itself is
NOT OO, because it cannot be.

I would think that Microsoft - after a dozen years, handful of operating systems
under their belt, and the collective IQ of a small galaxy at their disposal -
would completely understand OO programming principals and would have applied
them to the various operating systems it has built over the years. IF that
solution would have provided benefits to the user in performance, stability, or
ease of use.

It's always easy to criticize Windows and Microsoft in general, but to spank
Windows for its apparent lack of OO code base is REALLY stretching things a bit.

Matt
mstachoni@verizon.net
mstachoni@bhhtait.com
Message 45 of 56
Antisthenes
in reply to: Alian

http://www.intellicad.org/members/productdetail.php?productid=77

this works for me 100% compatible to all my DWGs

complaing about MS and Autodesk is not going to change them, chaning what
you use might... but as you have stated these corporations ring their own
death knell because of the profit over all model.
Message 46 of 56
Antisthenes
in reply to: Alian

Take a look at McNeel is doing with www.irhino3d.com it looks possible and
not to hard to port to mac
Message 47 of 56
dgorsman
in reply to: Alian

Profit enables the company to pay people - you know, like secretaries, janitors, and other essential personnel.

Businesses that don't make a profit don't survive. Its not evil, its just good business practice.
----------------------------------
If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.
"I don't know" is the beginning of knowledge, not the end.


Message 48 of 56
Antisthenes
in reply to: Alian

evil? no idea
/me consults dictionary of fibs , ahh hah something we created with our
semi-collective imagination that has been given more power than any
individual or group of similar to a corporation...

the issue is sustainability and diversity

being top dog doesn't work unless you are a bully and being a bully
forecasts a fall and an abuse of this status

I see it as cooperation that is way over due when a open source team makes a
program better than that witch they seek to mimic and on more platforms too,
within a economic footprint. Meanwhile the 'competitors' don't get it,
unless they buy it but ideas are not for sale and can't be owned according
the law of mathematics last I checked. When they are we will only see
further suffering and polarization waged by an elite owner class drunk in
shortsighted privilege.




wrote in message news:5751613@discussion.autodesk.com...
Profit enables the company to pay people - you know, like secretaries,
janitors, and other essential personnel.

Businesses that don't make a profit don't survive. Its not evil, its just
good business practice.
Message 49 of 56
dgorsman
in reply to: Alian

Open source designers typically volunteer work and don't get paid. Support services such as secretaries and janitors don't exist. Much easier to produce a product when you don't have to both show a profit and there isn't a payroll and benefits to deliver.

Oh, and ideas *are* owned. Copyright, trade mark, service mark, patent.
----------------------------------
If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.
"I don't know" is the beginning of knowledge, not the end.


Message 50 of 56
Antisthenes
in reply to: Alian

and the result: Hegemony because according the laws of the universe they
can't. Revisions to copyright law and the 14th amendment are far overdue to
get them in line with science. "It's only about the ____." (fill in blank
with your favorite resource)

And I ask how far with the cogs with the power and privilege they currently
have go to retain it?

Worker owned and Open source business models that value the costumers
participation seem to be doing fine and sustainable.

'have to" profit. sounds like denial of choice, the German bureaucratic
language of the 30's and 40's to me, please accept the loss so we don't end
up any further into this neo-fascism that mega corporations have pushed us.

wrote in message news:5752056@discussion.autodesk.com...
Open source designers typically volunteer work and don't get paid. Support
services such as secretaries and janitors don't exist. Much easier to
produce a product when you don't have to both show a profit and there isn't
a payroll and benefits to deliver.

Oh, and ideas *are* owned. Copyright, trade mark, service mark, patent.
Message 51 of 56
Anonymous
in reply to: Alian

Bricscad still does not have a com compatible LISP compiler (like Visual Lisp).
There are many reasons AutoCad is better than Bricscad.
The main problem is critical mass. You get enough people doing Bricscad, and the API's will catch up.

Antisthenes <>
|>http://www.intellicad.org/members/productdetail.php?productid=77
|>
|>this works for me 100% compatible to all my DWGs
|>
|>complaing about MS and Autodesk is not going to change them, chaning what
|>you use might... but as you have stated these corporations ring their own
|>death knell because of the profit over all model.
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - at - hunsaker - dotcom
Message 52 of 56
Anonymous
in reply to: Alian

LOL

"Steven Ondrias" wrote in message
--
Steven Ondrias, Technician
President =====> Hunters of Texas
VP =====> Amigo and Jetta Society of America
Member =====> Ted Nugent Fan Club
C3DISAPOS dual 19's Matrox 650-128 XPpro sp2 dual P 3 Ghz 2GB ram
eagle point guru...
overall a nice guy......
t5's official sausage sender.....
Message 53 of 56
irneb
in reply to: Alian

Thanks for that pointer. I've tried this. BricksCAD v8 is perfectly AutoCAD 2008 DWG compatible. Never mind compatible, the 2007 DWG file format is its native format. The program itself looks so similar to AutoCAD that some of the users here didn't realize it wasn't until they found some commands not working. Those I've found not working in BricksCAD is:
1. Fields (can't create or edit them, they don't update either).
2. Dynamic Blocks - no such grips, parameters & actions available.

And that's it, the rest of the core AutoCAD commands function exactly the same in Bricks. It's even got a much more impressive xref manager / design center / styles editor combination. Even LISP & ARX add-ons work - strange that this does????? And for a program costing around $300 I can't see why anyone would want to pay an extra couple of thousand for the missing features. I'd definitely say to anyone wanting to buy LT - forget it, there's a better program for less.

They've even developed their own ADT-Like add-on, but that's a few extra thousand ... still just under a full AutoCAD 2008 license though.

However their Linux version is still at v6 (which only works for DWG up to 2005). This also required WINE to be installed. They've emailed me to say that they are in the process of porting the v8 natively into Linux XWindow system - no WINE or interpreters required, which means much better performance. This is scheduled to happen middle of next year.
Message 54 of 56
k.emery
in reply to: Alian

 

Software of any kind is NEVER designed for ANY OPPERATING SYSTEM.

 

It is compiled from a high level language, to a machine level language and runs on a given processor.  For example x86, Arm, PowerPC, Spark** my personal favorite Open Cores.  There is any number of much much much better computing platforms that many people are unable to use just because winblows wont support them.

 

Importing precompiled library's does not make the sofware designed for a opperating system.  The high level code that those librarys are written in could easily be compiled for other processors.  They are just patent encumbered that is the problem.

Message 55 of 56
cjmjr1
in reply to: k.emery

You can run almost any windows-based application using Wine.

 

On terminal type in:

Sudo apt-get install wine

 

When trying to run Autodesk, run it with wine.

Message 56 of 56

Wine always makes running software easier... ~shifty eyes~


Melanie Stone
Facilities Data Management
IWMS / CAFM / CMMS / AutoCAD / Archibus / Tririga / Planon / MRI Manhattan CenterStone / Revit / data normalization, data mapping, reporting and process documentation
mistressofthedorkness.blogspot.com/

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