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Distinguished Contributor
kochcad
Posts: 198
Registered: ‎04-01-2005
Message 31 of 101 (356 Views)

Re: 2D Autocad vs AutoCAD 2007

03-13-2006 05:44 PM in reply to: *David Allen
There already is a company that developed something much like you are describing on adt. Look into a procduct called visionrez.com

Last time I looked it was going for only about $2300 which made for good middle ground for us b/c we couldn't afford (or needed) a full seat of autocad or adt but LT was well too LT

It is primarily built for residential but I am sure it could handle many light commercial projects. No lisp so probably still wouldn't fit David's needs but worth a look at what can be done. - Terry
Distinguished Contributor
kochcad
Posts: 198
Registered: ‎04-01-2005
Message 32 of 101 (356 Views)

Re: 2D Autocad vs AutoCAD 2007

03-13-2006 05:48 PM in reply to: *David Allen
you mention through out the post "no lisp" as your reason for not using LT. just curious but exactely what do you need lisp for? might help others suggestions if they know exactely what you are looking to accomplish that you can only get if you have lisp routines. - Terry
*Allen Jessup
Message 33 of 101 (356 Views)

Re: 2D Autocad vs AutoCAD 2007

03-14-2006 05:31 AM in reply to: *David Allen
This type of application would be correct for you. I won't argue that.
However I go to the 2004 NG and see a post from someone who want to know how
to automatically generate Isometric views from the 2D floorplan he has
drawn. The answer is of course it can't be done because it's 2D.

I've also seen many posts from people trying to do the type of 3D
applications that are being included in 2007. When told they need Inventor
the answer is; "Why should I have to pay for Inventor when I can do
everything I need in Autocad except loft?". They wanted a 3D autocad that
was just a little more powerful. Just like you want an LT that is just a
little more powerful. Autodesk listened to them this time. Maybe you will be
the next ones they listen to.

Remember to submit your wishes directly to autodesk and to the AUGI web
site.

Allen

"kemp" wrote in message
news:5109628@discussion.autodesk.com...
100% agreement here. My office deals with retired clients so modeling in
3D is is worthless to them. They prefer to see a hand drawn elevation
anyhow. We use all the customization but never use 3D. When/if we do
decide to use a 3D package it will likely be revit or something
comparable...

Arkitec wrote:
> David,
>
> Let me just say, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU! Autodesk is quite confused as
> far as what 3d application they want to promote, so lets promote them
> all.
>
> I agree 2D AutoCAD with LISP.... A step above LT but lower than full blown
> AutoCAD...
>
> BTW: You mention no lisp - like 3 times~!
*Craig Black
Message 34 of 101 (356 Views)

Re: 2D Autocad vs AutoCAD 2007

03-14-2006 08:16 AM in reply to: *David Allen
If you want all the bells and whistles you have to pay for 'em.
Unfortunately sometimes it includes more bells and whistles than you might
want.

It does have DIESEL...

--
Craig
_______________
Dreamers don't have strategic grill locations...


"David Allen" wrote in message
news:5109269@discussion.autodesk.com...
no lisp

--
Dave

"Craig Black" wrote in message
news:5108368@discussion.autodesk.com...
Ever heard of LT?

--
Craig
_______________
Dreamers don't have strategic grill locations...


"David Allen" wrote in message
news:5108310@discussion.autodesk.com...
After reviewing all the great new 3D features of 2007 I really have to say
who cares.
If I want to do 3D design I'm going to use inventor or revit.
But really I'm thinking how can we get a 2D only AutoCAD?
I wish some company would come out with a 2D only clone of AutoCAD
and sell it for less. Hey autodesk could do it and just concentrate on the
2D
features. I'm sure a 2D only AutoCAD would run faster then the current
bloatware.
My company pays alot of money each year to Autodesk and for that money
Autodesk
is giving us 3D features that we will never use. Maybe 1% of my company
will use any of the 3D
features of AutoCAD. That 1% probably would be better off using Revit
anyways.

I want a 2D only AutoCAD.
We already have 3D CAD software, how about a 2D CAD software for less money
and better features!

Am I alone in this opinion?

--
Dave
*Craig Black
Message 35 of 101 (356 Views)

Re: 2D Autocad vs AutoCAD 2007

03-14-2006 08:23 AM in reply to: *David Allen
>>BTW: You mention no lisp - like 3 times~!

Because 37 people have told him "Use LT"... doesn't anyone read the previous
reply before replying with the same response?

--
Craig
_______________
Dreamers don't have strategic grill locations...


wrote in message news:5109616@discussion.autodesk.com...
David,

Let me just say, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU! Autodesk is quite confused as
far as what 3d application they want to promote, so lets promote them all.

I agree 2D AutoCAD with LISP.... A step above LT but lower than full blown
AutoCAD...
*Rodney McManamy - CADzation
Message 36 of 101 (356 Views)

Re: 2D Autocad vs AutoCAD 2007

03-14-2006 09:13 AM in reply to: *David Allen
David,

Actually it would cost more to do a pure 2D. AutoCAD is the core of which
everything else is built around. 3D, ADT, LDT, even LT are different
flavors of the base AutoCAD. In the case of LT it's AutoCAD with a bunch of
features disabled. In the case of 3D it's AutoCAD with additional modeling
functionality.

So to create an AutoCAD 2D along with LT would be mean a whole new set of
documentation, licensing and support. Not to mention another team to
program it and test it.

Yes it does seam like 2D users are getting very little for their money out
of 2007 but 3D users got very little out of their money for 2006. It's a
delicate balance but I'm guessing most of the 3D editing they now have is
because of work done for the dynamic blocks in the old versions. And the
new file format in 2007 which they say is needed for the new 3D stuff will
probably bring 2D enhancements in 2008 that couldn't be done in the old
format.

The other (3D) users have complained for years that AutoCAD didn't do enough
for 3D users who didn't want to move up to Inventor. So now it's fair to
them.

If they continue on with 2008 being mainly 2D features and 2009 being mainly
3D features it's probably not a bad way to do it. An upgrade every 12
months is too much for most companies to handle anyways.

--
Rodney McManamy
President
CADzation
-------------------------
rmcmanamy@cadzation.com
-------------------------
518 South Route 31 Suite 200
McHenry, IL 60050
http://www.cadzation.com
Providing Industrial Strength
PDF & DWF Solutions to the
Global CAD Marketplace.

"David Allen" wrote in message
news:5109573@discussion.autodesk.com...
I guess I should have been more explentative
But as the subject says "2D AutoCAD"
To me AutoCAD with no 3D features would be
smaller, cost less and run faster with the 3D code
taken out. I don't need it but I'm paying for it
as shown in AutoCAD 2007.
I (my company) paid alot of money for 2007 and
I think we are getting a horrible return on our money.
We want 2D features, not 3D features for our money.
If I want 3D features then we buy Revit.
Simple as that.

--
Dave

"Jason Hickey" wrote in message
news:5109513@discussion.autodesk.com...
hector@work wrote:
> he has, what LT doesn't have is lisp


Well, yeah, but he didn't mention the need of LISP. I put that under
some of the "bloatware" that he was wanting to get rid of. It's also
missing Sheet Set Manager, but he didn't mention needing that. If he
wants everything BUT 3D, then he should just purchase AutoCAD and not
use 3D...


--
Jason Hickey

http://beneaththelines.blogspot.com
*David Allen
Message 37 of 101 (356 Views)

Re: 2D Autocad vs AutoCAD 2007

03-14-2006 05:13 PM in reply to: *David Allen
There is going to be a certain number of people who want 3D autocad
I bet there is alot more autocad users who could care less about 3D
There is 50 cad users in my office. I would gestimate that maybe 3 have
ever done any real world work in 3D. I'm not talking about learning 3D
at the community college or ITT. Thats why I say that 3D is worthless
to traditional autocad users in the AEC world.

--
Dave

"Allen Jessup" wrote in message
news:5110214@discussion.autodesk.com...
This type of application would be correct for you. I won't argue that.
However I go to the 2004 NG and see a post from someone who want to know how
to automatically generate Isometric views from the 2D floorplan he has
drawn. The answer is of course it can't be done because it's 2D.

I've also seen many posts from people trying to do the type of 3D
applications that are being included in 2007. When told they need Inventor
the answer is; "Why should I have to pay for Inventor when I can do
everything I need in Autocad except loft?". They wanted a 3D autocad that
was just a little more powerful. Just like you want an LT that is just a
little more powerful. Autodesk listened to them this time. Maybe you will be
the next ones they listen to.

Remember to submit your wishes directly to autodesk and to the AUGI web
site.

Allen

"kemp" wrote in message
news:5109628@discussion.autodesk.com...
100% agreement here. My office deals with retired clients so modeling in
3D is is worthless to them. They prefer to see a hand drawn elevation
anyhow. We use all the customization but never use 3D. When/if we do
decide to use a 3D package it will likely be revit or something
comparable...

Arkitec wrote:
> David,
>
> Let me just say, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU! Autodesk is quite confused as
> far as what 3d application they want to promote, so lets promote them
> all.
>
> I agree 2D AutoCAD with LISP.... A step above LT but lower than full blown
> AutoCAD...
>
> BTW: You mention no lisp - like 3 times~!
*David Allen
Message 38 of 101 (356 Views)

Re: 2D Autocad vs AutoCAD 2007

03-14-2006 05:20 PM in reply to: *David Allen
LiSP provides a way to give the users whatever the core application does not
offer
There is mountains of lisp routines that do a to z. To all the sudden
disregard that resouce
is just plain silly. Who would want to work in an enviroment where they
could not use
the lisp routines that they have been using for the last 10 years.

--
Dave

wrote in message news:5109915@discussion.autodesk.com...
you mention through out the post "no lisp" as your reason for not using LT.
just curious but exactely what do you need lisp for? might help others
suggestions if they know exactely what you are looking to accomplish that
you can only get if you have lisp routines. - Terry
*David Allen
Message 39 of 101 (356 Views)

Re: 2D Autocad vs AutoCAD 2007

03-14-2006 05:21 PM in reply to: *David Allen
I wonder if the 3D features can be taken out of the OEM
and what does the OEM cost per seat?

--
Dave

"Luis Esquivel" wrote in message
news:5109607@discussion.autodesk.com...
David;

Here is the link to the OEM stuff... it used to be there a $ price tag if I
recall but not sure

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=790640




--
http://www.geometricad.com



David Allen

will OEM work with LiSP?
Say I want to purchase 50 seats of the OEM license
How much would that cost compared to regular seats?

--
Dave

Message was edited by: Discussion Admin
*David Allen
Message 40 of 101 (356 Views)

Re: 2D Autocad vs AutoCAD 2007

03-14-2006 05:26 PM in reply to: *David Allen
So that would me I would just need to purchase an ADN license and the OEM
licenses?
Do you have to know C to deploy OEM? Anyone used it before?

--
Dave

"Ed Jobe" wrote in message
news:5109691@discussion.autodesk.com...
I think you may be getting the wrong idea about OEM. It is an SDK for
developers to create acad-based software. It is not available to endusers.
RK mentioned "registered developer".

--
----
Ed
----
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