Hidden Line Removal - How can I get it to work? What are the alternatives?

[Anonymous]

On complex multi-storey buildings (in other words, large files) HLR either
takes an hour to create its block or fails. Sometimes this crashes ADT,
other times it only creates half the block.

The alternative that I use at the moment is to plot to a DXB file and bring
the resulting 2d view back into ADT. There are always (sometimes quite
serious) inaccuracies in the resulting drawing such as lines almost running
parallel to one another, over one another or displaces from where they ought
to be. Is there a way of making the DXB plot more accurate?

Obviously DXB is far from ideal (it is the only workable solution that I can
find) particularly as I lose all layer information. Is there a way to
preserve the layer information, or is there another way. I haven't had time
to play with DWFs yet, could they help?

I'm getting some great models out of ADT but hidden line plots are not good
enough for some (most) presentations and I really NEED a solution to this
issue. I would really be rather pleased if the resulting file had a good
level of accuracy also.

Thanks,
Mike

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[Anonymous]

"Michael Sealey" wrote in message
news:ECC83BDC6B9437E602F78F30D117063F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> On complex multi-storey buildings (in other words, large files) HLR either
> takes an hour to create its block or fails. Sometimes this crashes ADT,
> other times it only creates half the block.

I believe there is a limitation on HLR when using xrefs, I believe you have
to make an elevation object from the combined xrefs then run the HLR. See
below for other limitations of HLR.

>
> The alternative that I use at the moment is to plot to a DXB file and
bring
> the resulting 2d view back into ADT. There are always (sometimes quite
> serious) inaccuracies in the resulting drawing such as lines almost
running
> parallel to one another, over one another or displaces from where they
ought
> to be. Is there a way of making the DXB plot more accurate?

DXB and HLR both create an image of your drawing. Relative accuracy
(precision) is constant regardless of scale, absolute accuracy varies with
scale; the further out you are zoomed the "farther" objects will be from
their correct position. Zoomed in tight when the image is generated a line
may only be off a tiny fraction of an inch, whereas when zoomed out to a
large site or elevation the line may be off an inch or more.

>
> Obviously DXB is far from ideal (it is the only workable solution that I
can
> find) particularly as I lose all layer information. Is there a way to
> preserve the layer information, or is there another way. I haven't had
time
> to play with DWFs yet, could they help?

DWF will flatten your images provided that the Whip viewer CANNOT find the
original file. If the DWF and the 3-d DWG from which it was created are
both on your local machine, opening the DWF will open the original DWG.
Thus this method requires fooling the ACAD, by renaming or moving files,
etc.

>
> I'm getting some great models out of ADT but hidden line plots are not
good
> enough for some (most) presentations and I really NEED a solution to this
> issue. I would really be rather pleased if the resulting file had a good
> level of accuracy also.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.227 / Virus Database: 109 - Release Date: 18/01/2001
>

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the reply. I should have added that HLR fails on the elevation
object also. These are very large drawings with a lot of detail. Works
perfectly on small drawings - like the ones that AutoDesk does demos on,
haha.

The thing is, I want to hatch the generated elevations - so DXBs aren't good
enough as I have to trace new polylines where I want to add hatching, very
detailed hatching, because the lines don't meet.

Thanks again,
Mike

"brudgers" wrote in message
news:754E0B545D17BEC3C5ADB1C3E9D26E7D@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
>
> "Michael Sealey" wrote in message
> news:ECC83BDC6B9437E602F78F30D117063F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > On complex multi-storey buildings (in other words, large files) HLR
either
> > takes an hour to create its block or fails. Sometimes this crashes ADT,
> > other times it only creates half the block.
>
> I believe there is a limitation on HLR when using xrefs, I believe you
have
> to make an elevation object from the combined xrefs then run the HLR. See
> below for other limitations of HLR.
>
> >
> > The alternative that I use at the moment is to plot to a DXB file and
> bring
> > the resulting 2d view back into ADT. There are always (sometimes quite
> > serious) inaccuracies in the resulting drawing such as lines almost
> running
> > parallel to one another, over one another or displaces from where they
> ought
> > to be. Is there a way of making the DXB plot more accurate?
>
> DXB and HLR both create an image of your drawing. Relative accuracy
> (precision) is constant regardless of scale, absolute accuracy varies with
> scale; the further out you are zoomed the "farther" objects will be from
> their correct position. Zoomed in tight when the image is generated a
line
> may only be off a tiny fraction of an inch, whereas when zoomed out to a
> large site or elevation the line may be off an inch or more.
>
> >
> > Obviously DXB is far from ideal (it is the only workable solution that I

> can
> > find) particularly as I lose all layer information. Is there a way to
> > preserve the layer information, or is there another way. I haven't had
> time
> > to play with DWFs yet, could they help?
>
> DWF will flatten your images provided that the Whip viewer CANNOT find the
> original file. If the DWF and the 3-d DWG from which it was created are
> both on your local machine, opening the DWF will open the original DWG.
> Thus this method requires fooling the ACAD, by renaming or moving files,
> etc.
>
> >
> > I'm getting some great models out of ADT but hidden line plots are not
> good
> > enough for some (most) presentations and I really NEED a solution to
this
> > issue. I would really be rather pleased if the resulting file had a good
> > level of accuracy also.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mike
> >
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.227 / Virus Database: 109 - Release Date: 18/01/2001
> >
>

---
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[Anonymous]

"Michael Sealey" wrote in message
news:5854B94D34606BF4A8A089088336B6B5@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Thanks for the reply. I should have added that HLR fails on the elevation
> object also. These are very large drawings with a lot of detail. Works
> perfectly on small drawings - like the ones that AutoDesk does demos on,
> haha.

It may be that there is "corrupt" geometry in the elevation object, or in
its source xrefs.

>
> The thing is, I want to hatch the generated elevations - so DXBs aren't
good
> enough as I have to trace new polylines where I want to add hatching, very
> detailed hatching, because the lines don't meet.

Express tools "mpedit" allows multiple join with a "fuzz factor" - generally
faster than tracing.

>
> Thanks again,
> Mike
>
> "brudgers" wrote in message
> news:754E0B545D17BEC3C5ADB1C3E9D26E7D@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> >
> > "Michael Sealey" wrote in message
> > news:ECC83BDC6B9437E602F78F30D117063F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > On complex multi-storey buildings (in other words, large files) HLR
> either
> > > takes an hour to create its block or fails. Sometimes this crashes
ADT,
> > > other times it only creates half the block.
> >
> > I believe there is a limitation on HLR when using xrefs, I believe you
> have
> > to make an elevation object from the combined xrefs then run the HLR.
See
> > below for other limitations of HLR.
> >
> > >
> > > The alternative that I use at the moment is to plot to a DXB file and
> > bring
> > > the resulting 2d view back into ADT. There are always (sometimes
quite
> > > serious) inaccuracies in the resulting drawing such as lines almost
> > running
> > > parallel to one another, over one another or displaces from where they
> > ought
> > > to be. Is there a way of making the DXB plot more accurate?
> >
> > DXB and HLR both create an image of your drawing. Relative accuracy
> > (precision) is constant regardless of scale, absolute accuracy varies
with
> > scale; the further out you are zoomed the "farther" objects will be from
> > their correct position. Zoomed in tight when the image is generated a
> line
> > may only be off a tiny fraction of an inch, whereas when zoomed out to a
> > large site or elevation the line may be off an inch or more.
> >
> > >
> > > Obviously DXB is far from ideal (it is the only workable solution that
I
>
> > can
> > > find) particularly as I lose all layer information. Is there a way to
> > > preserve the layer information, or is there another way. I haven't
had
> > time
> > > to play with DWFs yet, could they help?
> >
> > DWF will flatten your images provided that the Whip viewer CANNOT find
the
> > original file. If the DWF and the 3-d DWG from which it was created are
> > both on your local machine, opening the DWF will open the original DWG.
> > Thus this method requires fooling the ACAD, by renaming or moving files,
> > etc.
> >
> > >
> > > I'm getting some great models out of ADT but hidden line plots are not
> > good
> > > enough for some (most) presentations and I really NEED a solution to
> this
> > > issue. I would really be rather pleased if the resulting file had a
good
> > > level of accuracy also.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > > Version: 6.0.227 / Virus Database: 109 - Release Date: 18/01/2001
> > >
> >
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.227 / Virus Database: 109 - Release Date: 17/01/2001
>

[Anonymous]

Thanks so much for your input, especially the expresstools tip. I think
that there may be may be some corrupt information in some of the xrefs as
this project has developed from the first that I did on ADT and I struggled
with some of the concepts to start with.
Cheers,
Mike

"brudgers" wrote in message
news:B6197694F94026BCD9E71AC2396AB98A@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
>
> "Michael Sealey" wrote in message
> news:5854B94D34606BF4A8A089088336B6B5@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > Thanks for the reply. I should have added that HLR fails on the
elevation
> > object also. These are very large drawings with a lot of detail. Works
> > perfectly on small drawings - like the ones that AutoDesk does demos on,
> > haha.
>
> It may be that there is "corrupt" geometry in the elevation object, or in
> its source xrefs.
>
> >
> > The thing is, I want to hatch the generated elevations - so DXBs aren't
> good
> > enough as I have to trace new polylines where I want to add hatching,
very
> > detailed hatching, because the lines don't meet.
>
> Express tools "mpedit" allows multiple join with a "fuzz factor" -
generally
> faster than tracing.
>
> >
> > Thanks again,
> > Mike
> >
> > "brudgers" wrote in message
> > news:754E0B545D17BEC3C5ADB1C3E9D26E7D@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > >
> > > "Michael Sealey" wrote in message
> > > news:ECC83BDC6B9437E602F78F30D117063F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > On complex multi-storey buildings (in other words, large files) HLR
> > either
> > > > takes an hour to create its block or fails. Sometimes this crashes
> ADT,
> > > > other times it only creates half the block.
> > >
> > > I believe there is a limitation on HLR when using xrefs, I believe you
> > have
> > > to make an elevation object from the combined xrefs then run the HLR.
> See
> > > below for other limitations of HLR.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > The alternative that I use at the moment is to plot to a DXB file
and
> > > bring
> > > > the resulting 2d view back into ADT. There are always (sometimes
> quite
> > > > serious) inaccuracies in the resulting drawing such as lines almost
> > > running
> > > > parallel to one another, over one another or displaces from where
they
> > > ought
> > > > to be. Is there a way of making the DXB plot more accurate?
> > >
> > > DXB and HLR both create an image of your drawing. Relative accuracy
> > > (precision) is constant regardless of scale, absolute accuracy varies
> with
> > > scale; the further out you are zoomed the "farther" objects will be
from
> > > their correct position. Zoomed in tight when the image is generated a
> > line
> > > may only be off a tiny fraction of an inch, whereas when zoomed out to
a
> > > large site or elevation the line may be off an inch or more.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Obviously DXB is far from ideal (it is the only workable solution
that
> I
> >
> > > can
> > > > find) particularly as I lose all layer information. Is there a way
to
> > > > preserve the layer information, or is there another way. I haven't
> had
> > > time
> > > > to play with DWFs yet, could they help?
> > >
> > > DWF will flatten your images provided that the Whip viewer CANNOT find
> the
> > > original file. If the DWF and the 3-d DWG from which it was created
are
> > > both on your local machine, opening the DWF will open the original
DWG.
> > > Thus this method requires fooling the ACAD, by renaming or moving
files,
> > > etc.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I'm getting some great models out of ADT but hidden line plots are
not
> > > good
> > > > enough for some (most) presentations and I really NEED a solution to
> > this
> > > > issue. I would really be rather pleased if the resulting file had a
> good
> > > > level of accuracy also.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > > > Version: 6.0.227 / Virus Database: 109 - Release Date: 18/01/2001
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.227 / Virus Database: 109 - Release Date: 17/01/2001
> >
>

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Version: 6.0.227 / Virus Database: 109 - Release Date: 17/01/2001

[Anonymous]

"Michael Sealey" wrote in message
news:A0E1B3FBB027F16E58F5B9F87EBB79CB@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Thanks so much for your input, especially the expresstools tip. I think
> that there may be may be some corrupt information in some of the xrefs as
> this project has developed from the first that I did on ADT and I
struggled
> with some of the concepts to start with.
> Cheers,
> Mike
>

I have made several posts on how to deal with "corrupt" geometry, under
various headings. It typically manifests itself as a "FATAL ERROR:
Unhandled Access Violation ..." when performing 3d operations, including
HLR.

Many times this is caused by complex wall cleanups - I think it is related
to having 3 or more intersecting walls which will only clean-up in a
specific order. Another source I have found is mirroring a stair object. I
suspect there are many others.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Brudgers, that will help. I have now changed my method to:

Plot to HPGL file. Use Expresstools PLT to DWG to import it back in. This
produces a much more accurate file than dxb and allows the colours to be
distinguished.

Thanks again,
Mike

"brudgers" wrote in message
news:7D622F40BBD8BBE9C676BEEB0DB3E911@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
>
> "Michael Sealey" wrote in message
> news:A0E1B3FBB027F16E58F5B9F87EBB79CB@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > Thanks so much for your input, especially the expresstools tip. I think
> > that there may be may be some corrupt information in some of the xrefs
as
> > this project has developed from the first that I did on ADT and I
> struggled
> > with some of the concepts to start with.
> > Cheers,
> > Mike
> >
>
> I have made several posts on how to deal with "corrupt" geometry, under
> various headings. It typically manifests itself as a "FATAL ERROR:
> Unhandled Access Violation ..." when performing 3d operations, including
> HLR.
>
> Many times this is caused by complex wall cleanups - I think it is related
> to having 3 or more intersecting walls which will only clean-up in a
> specific order. Another source I have found is mirroring a stair object.
I
> suspect there are many others.
>

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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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[Anonymous]

have you tried WMFOUT? The wmf also is a good output source too, but
again cannot tell you its accuracy...

Michael Sealey wrote:
>
> On complex multi-storey buildings (in other words, large files) HLR either
> takes an hour to create its block or fails. Sometimes this crashes ADT,
> other times it only creates half the block.
>
> The alternative that I use at the moment is to plot to a DXB file and bring
> the resulting 2d view back into ADT. There are always (sometimes quite
> serious) inaccuracies in the resulting drawing such as lines almost running
> parallel to one another, over one another or displaces from where they ought
> to be. Is there a way of making the DXB plot more accurate?
>
> Obviously DXB is far from ideal (it is the only workable solution that I can
> find) particularly as I lose all layer information. Is there a way to
> preserve the layer information, or is there another way. I haven't had time
> to play with DWFs yet, could they help?
>
> I'm getting some great models out of ADT but hidden line plots are not good
> enough for some (most) presentations and I really NEED a solution to this
> issue. I would really be rather pleased if the resulting file had a good
> level of accuracy also.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.227 / Virus Database: 109 - Release Date: 18/01/2001

--

Nauman M
PC TroubleShooters
Need to easily Navigate to your Custom Content Folders?
Need Autolayering for Dimensions without going through Design Center?
Download the updated ADT Tools for ADT 2 & 3 at
http://www.mysorewala.com

[Anonymous]

Thanks, I admit that I found WMFOUT so bad in previous releases that I
haven't tried it, I'll give it a shot.
Mike

"Nauman M" wrote in message
news:3A918080.967BB7F6@email.com...
> have you tried WMFOUT? The wmf also is a good output source too, but
> again cannot tell you its accuracy...
>
> Michael Sealey wrote:
> >
> > On complex multi-storey buildings (in other words, large files) HLR
either
> > takes an hour to create its block or fails. Sometimes this crashes ADT,
> > other times it only creates half the block.
> >
> > The alternative that I use at the moment is to plot to a DXB file and
bring
> > the resulting 2d view back into ADT. There are always (sometimes quite
> > serious) inaccuracies in the resulting drawing such as lines almost
running
> > parallel to one another, over one another or displaces from where they
ought
> > to be. Is there a way of making the DXB plot more accurate?
> >
> > Obviously DXB is far from ideal (it is the only workable solution that I
can
> > find) particularly as I lose all layer information. Is there a way to
> > preserve the layer information, or is there another way. I haven't had
time
> > to play with DWFs yet, could they help?
> >
> > I'm getting some great models out of ADT but hidden line plots are not
good
> > enough for some (most) presentations and I really NEED a solution to
this
> > issue. I would really be rather pleased if the resulting file had a good
> > level of accuracy also.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mike
> >
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.227 / Virus Database: 109 - Release Date: 18/01/2001
>
> --
>
> Nauman M
> PC TroubleShooters
> Need to easily Navigate to your Custom Content Folders?
> Need Autolayering for Dimensions without going through Design Center?
> Download the updated ADT Tools for ADT 2 & 3 at
> http://www.mysorewala.com

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Version: 6.0.227 / Virus Database: 109 - Release Date: 17/01/2001