Anyone running ADT on Intel Mac yet?

[luka]

I am extremely curious if anyone has already run ADT on Intel Mac with bootcamp, running Win XP. This will solve all my dilemma for my needs for both platform.

thank you

luka

[JeffreyMcGrew]

Why? The whole point of BootCamp is that it's a fully supported dual-booting solution. Apple gives you all the Window drivers you need to use their hardware. What folks were doing before was unstable, this is in beta now and will be 100% by the next version of OS X.

I think there's some confusion here as to what Boot Camp is. It's just a tool that allows dual-booting Windows XP and OS X on a intel-bsed Mac. It also includes an install and repartitioning tool, and all the drivers you need for Windows. Think of it as a version of Partition Magic, but just for the new Macs. It's really not that much different. My laptop dual boots Linux and Windows, and the Linux I use came with a very similar tool that allows for dual-booting. The big news is that this one is actually made by and supported by Apple...

As for the speed, it ran it as fast as any other nice Duo-based laptop would. i.e. really, really fast. 😄 We'll have to wait and see if the EFI it uses (instead of BIOS) makes much of a difference in overall speed once more of the Windows Duo laptops ship (like the new Dells). Then it will be an Apples to Apples comparison for speed.

Just go to AUGI and search for 'MacBook running Revit' and you'll see all the info you want, and can ask the guy who's doing this.

[Anonymous]

On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 20:20:05 +0000, David Kurtz wrote:
>But it doesn't change a few realities:
>. this is still BETA software.
>. One must reboot to run windows.
>. What is the *real* compelling reason fore a PC/Windows user to switch?
>. Apple hardware is still priced higher than PC; and most likely will remain
>for for the time to come.

Well, when it comes down to it, there are a few realities:

1. It's still MICROSOFT WINDOWS on an INTEL based PC. Just like everyone has
right now, except it's built by *gasp* Apple - So at most it's probably a little
shiny.

2. Because it's built by *gasp* Apple, it almost certainly _will_ have a few
"quirks." Goofy Celtic symbols on the keyboard notwithstanding, there are
probably a couple of things that normal PCs won't have. But that list is
shrinking too - I don't think you can even buy a Mac with Firewire on it anymore
(and if you can it's probably a $359.95 option).

3. The hardware in the box will probably be off-the-shelf-but-rebranded-by-Apple
stuff. nVidia video cards, Micron RAM, Western Digital hard drives, Mitsumi
DVD/RWs, etc. Just with the *gasp* Apple logo.

4. Apple's provided Windows drivers are almost certainly rebranded OEM drivers,
like the drivers you get with your nVidia video card. IOW, you don't _have_ to
install PNY's drivers - they are the same from nVidia except have the PNY logo.
Same with *gasp* Apple's stuff.

Remember, this IS a PC we are talking about here, and as such, no one is going
to reivent the PCI-interconnect wheel just because they're *gasp* Apple.

So, in the end, running ADT, under Windows, on a Mac simply isn't newsworthy. If
it's fast enough, great.

Now if it was running under OSX, on a Dell Precision workstation, without
emulation, with a single button mouse - yeah, that would be something to see.

Matt
mstachoni@comcast.net
mstachoni@bhhtait.com

[Anonymous]

Which makes you wonder, if macs are now running on PC hardware with Intel
processors, how long before someone could just buy mac OS if they wanted it
and install it as a duel boot option on their Dell or IBM or HP or whatever
else PC they already had... makes you wonder if this is the next BIG
announcement...

[Anonymous]

One would only imagine the chaos that would cause. Heh-heh.
Apple has released a statement a while back saying that they would "never" do that (seel the OS as a separate product). But the've changed their positions before.
- S

[Anonymous]

On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 21:22:25 +0000, Paul F. Aubin wrote:

>Which makes you wonder, if macs are now running on PC hardware with Intel
>processors, how long before someone could just buy mac OS if they wanted it
>and install it as a duel boot option on their Dell or IBM or HP or whatever
>else PC they already had

Depends: if you are an OSX fan, hopefully by this time next week:
http://www.uneasysilence.com/archive/2005/08/3907/
http://www.osx86project.org/

However, if you are Steve Jobs, never in a million frickin' years.
http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/FAQ#Will_Apple_sell_OS_X_for_PCs.3F

Basically, the problem is due to the special BIOSes that Mac PCs have. OSX
requires it, and ordinary off the shelf PCs do not have them. So, it's basically
1991 all over again.

Matt
mstachoni@comcast.net
mstachoni@bhhtait.com

[anthony]

You should check your facts before you type/speak:

1. All Macs, from the consumer Mac Book to the lowly cheap Mac mini have at least one (1) Firewire 400 port built-in. There hasn't been a Mac built without Firewire since they first started shipping them. The Pro Macs have Firewire ports (plural) and some even have the incredibly awesome Firewire 800 (standard).

2. Mac hardware is more than shiny. Some have hard drives that detect a drop, they have a wicked great new power plug connection that keeps people from tripping your laptop off the table and hence killing your machine and they have niceties like backlit keyboards (great for working completely in the dark like in the bedroom when the mrs. is sleeping or on a plane, etc. They are not JUST PCs.

3. The internals are most of the same stuff as PCs. Yes, but Apple must be doing something well because consumer reports and others keep rating their equipment higher than everyone else (including Dell).

4. Apple writes many of its own drivers. The Windows XP drivers for instance that control the Apple Mighty Mouse, eg. ATI and nVidia write drivers for their cards for Apple and often collaborate on software driver development with Apple directly. And BTW, all nVidia cards are platform neutral. They could run in a Mac if Apple shipped a driver with them. But Apple wants a limited number of hardware configs to support and thus limits GPUs options. After years of complaints they are now supporting more options than ever - and there are 3rd party options later on in the product's life (like the ATI X1900 card just released for PowerPC machines).

Apple still engineers its motherboards and collaborated with Intel on the Mac Pro motherboard. It will maintain its hardware engineering in many capacities for years to come because ultimately Apple is a very talented engineering company and its one way they can differentiate.

[betazero]

Installed bootcamp on an imac 20" and ADT works better than my Sony dual core Pentium D.

Had an office coworker allow me to install bootcamp on his shiny new Mac PRO and OMG HELLL YEAH. That thing FLYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and its soo super quite. I would like to see any workstation out there for 2.5k that works that well with ADT for that price (quad core zeons!!!!) and look that pretty in the mean time oh and run a FAR superior OS on the flip side. Made me VERY jellous and those 24" iMacs make me jellous too. I dont recommend the Ati imacs as much as the Nvidia ones. Nvidia seems to make better drivers in my opinion.

So the answer is hellll yeah its works Flawlessly in a MAC. And come January with the new OS, Mac will be able to flop its screen like changing a user to Vista and then back again to OS11 or whatever it will be called (even a rumor that you will be able to buy a mac with Vista/OS11 installed). You can even try that program that allows to you run ADT inside OS10. I personally havnt tried it but sounds interesting.

Any questions ask away. I have been working on in iMac at home for maybe 3 months. ADT2007 crashed with hatching but no more than my Sony. After the service patch 1 it hasnt crashed yet. The guy on the Mac Pro has been using it on 3d models for maybe 2 weeks and he said it crashed one time when he was doing a dynamic 3d rotate but this is normal ADT crash. Otherwise it has worked flawlessly.

By the way I have been using Microsoft&Clone ever since they killed Commodore Amiga a Long time ago and it feels great to use OS10. You have to get used to the cutting and pasting and text navigation (apple key and arrows instead of home and end), but otherwise it never crashes and is actually fun to use. There is so much to do with a MAc with just what comes out of the box and you can do it far after 30 days (there are no trial periods except on iWork). I really only use my PC to play Battlefield 2142 and run ADT 2007 at the moment.

[Anonymous]

I've also been on a PC ever since I gave up my Amiga 2000. I still have it
up in the attic. It's still fun to play with, once in a while.

Dan
--
Daniel J. Altamura, R.A.
Altamura Architectural Consulting
and SoftWorx, Autodesk Authorized Developer
http://partnerproducts.autodesk.com/popups/company.asp?rdid=2139
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


wrote in message news:5425115@discussion.autodesk.com...
By the way I have been using Microsoft&Clone ever since they killed
Commodore Amiga a Long time ago and it feels great to use OS10.

[Charles Adshead]

yes i have this running it works perfectly.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, they had to drag me kicking and screaming from my A3000.

[betazero]

I remember when I bought my amiga they had Apple something and I wanted one too but at the time I could only afford an amiga 500 (I couldnt afford a monitor on McDonald's income) but I loved that thing. Wish I would have kept it for nostalgia. Its funny how Apple and Commodore had all in one boxes 18 years (yikes im getting old) ago and just now PCs are starting to do it (finally Sony made a decent one thats half as powerfull as an comparribly priced iMac.....uh?? anyone awake over there at Sony?? Few will pay 2k for something you can buy for 1.2k at apple with the same speed minus a TV tuner. For 2k at apple you can get the 24"...I hope they come out with a 30" iMac:) ).

I get a strange feeling that Microsoft is turning into IBM (and will soon implode). Totattly oblivious to what a consumer/customer wants and just focused on bottom line. Kinda like Autodesk...hmmm. Hopefully Apple does not capture too much market share and then turn bloated (like microsoft/Autodesk and the late IBM-Are they still alive?). Whats funny is that if ADT does not start to improve and someone makes a really good MAC alternative ...I would seriously consider switching. Since you have to learn a whole new program anyways might as well switch to a new OS too... hehe. We have some old PCs here that I think I will turn into MACs sometime next year.


Sorry I went off on a tangent Message was edited by: betazero

[bt-arch]

I'm still trying to figure out why you would buy a Mac to run windows. It seems there remains a 75%-100% Apple vs. PC extra cost premium for apple to apples CPU/Ram/Disk performance (get the pun?).

I'll certainly agree that the Apple stuff is nicely done. But it's just not worth 75% more. And it's not like 1990, when it was Mac vs. Windows for Workgroups. THAT was the time that Apple held the advantage. But they frittered it away, mostly be refusing to lower their margins and thereby keeping their prices always higher than the windows option.

When Windows 95/98 showed up, the game was on and Apple didn't make the right moves. When we are a Mac shop, first we had to buy Virtual PC in order to run PC-only apps, then soon we just bought the PC's outright. That's why Boot Camp seems so odd to me. Why pay more for a Mac to run the (hated) windows software?

I thought Linux was to be the dark horse that would ride away from rubble of Windows. Anyone know about CAD/Linux in the future?

[Anonymous]

"Anyone know about CAD/Linux in the future?"
ya right! ADT, AutoCAD, and Revit on Linux...I WISH! Looks like MAX is
getting close though.

--
Brian Earsley
www.arete3.com
18645 South West Creek Drive
Tinley Park, Illinois 60477
708.342.1250 x.225

New to DWF? Check it out!
http://www.arete3.com/services/communication.html
select "ARCHITECTURE" - "File Formats"

wrote in message news:5426372@discussion.autodesk.com...
I'm still trying to figure out why you would buy a Mac to run windows. It
seems there remains a 75%-100% Apple vs. PC extra cost premium for apple to
apples CPU/Ram/Disk performance (get the pun?).

I'll certainly agree that the Apple stuff is nicely done. But it's just not
worth 75% more. And it's not like 1990, when it was Mac vs. Windows for
Workgroups. THAT was the time that Apple held the advantage. But they
frittered it away, mostly be refusing to lower their margins and thereby
keeping their prices always higher than the windows option.

When Windows 95/98 showed up, the game was on and Apple didn't make the
right moves. When we are a Mac shop, first we had to buy Virtual PC in order
to run PC-only apps, then soon we just bought the PC's outright. That's why
Boot Camp seems so odd to me. Why pay more for a Mac to run the (hated)
windows software?

I thought Linux was to be the dark horse that would ride away from rubble of
Windows. Anyone know about CAD/Linux in the future?

[JeffreyMcGrew]

Some folks (mike me) use software that runs on both, or only on Mac. My own business is a mixed shop with both. The only tools that are Windows-only that I care about are Revit and the CAM software we use to drive the CNC. So, to me, if I can get a Mac that can run those things then it's worth it, because I live off my laptop, so having ONE nice computer that can do BOTH is really great.

And it's not 75% more. Not anymore. Especially when you get into the high-end. It's cheaper to get a top-of-the-line tower from Apple than Dell now, if you don't go for the fancy huge Apple monitors.

Finally, that part about it being 'nicely done'. Well. You could also ask "why would anyone buy a Lexus when a Chevy or Yugo even would work?". My day job gave me a Dell M90, top of the line laptop that cost something like $1000 more than the same thing from Apple. It's twice as heavy, twice as ugly, has a power supply the size and weight of a brick, is too big to use when flying, and one of them (a coworkers) has already died (like had to be sent back) and the other (mine) has had problems with Windows getting corrupted (hard drive issues we think). All this for $1000 more! yay! I even when out and bought a special backpack to carry the stupid thing in for it was killing my back to carry this tank in a shoulder bag all the time. So design does matter, and to some, more than you might guess at first (and more than just wanting the thing that's 'cool' or 'hip').

As for Linux, well, it is doing rather well in some areas. CAD isn't one, unless you get into the high-end systems. I used to use some Linux stuff, but now that all runs on Apple too, so...

(I gave up my Amiga 2000 kicking and screaming, it's the only computer I've ever owned that I actually liked...)

Jeffrey McGrew

[bt-arch]

I'll certainly agree, Apple has always made a sweet laptop!

Its actually an area where its ability to tightly control hardware and software really yields a tangible benefit.

I had thought that the only remaining area where you might see Mac-only App's was in things like video and music, is that what you run that's mac-only?

And I'm WAY too cheap to buy top of the line anything... But please no Yugos.

[Anonymous]

I am also running ADT 2007 and my loaded mac book while my company decides on there equipment to upgrade to. Back to the mac book The only draw back i have with it is the screen size i have not had and lockups or any faitle errors com up for the 2 weeks i have be using it. Our it guy is just keeping his distance from my office with my mac book. I guess he thinks that it is bad karma to look at it.

[JeffreyMcGrew]

"I had thought that the only remaining area where you might see Mac-only App's was in things like video and music, is that what you run that's mac-only?"

Nope. We use it for three things, first off our CS2 suite from Adobe is on Mac, not Windows. This is because my business partner (my wife) is a graphic designer and pro photographer, and there is a lot of stuff on the Mac side that makes her life easier and faster and better. Color correction and system automation are way easier on a Mac in our experience. Second, I sometimes use a 3D rendering package called Radiance that need some form of Unix under it. I can use it on Cygwin under Windows, but it's slow. It runs full speed on Mac or Linux, and Macs are a lot easier to deal with than Linux (which I used to use). Finally, third, we use an old Mac for our office file server, and there are some nice advantages there for a small business like ours when it comes to search, backups, syncing with our Mac laptops, and more.

Hope that wasn't too long. I *wish* we used it for movies and music, that would be more fun!

Jeffrey McGrew

[bt-arch]

We really were quite reluctant to leave our Mac's behind.

I used to get kind of mad about it - the idea that Apple kind of had this window and they let MS blow them out of the water with Windows 95.

Sounds like the unix thing is interesting.

[betazero]

Apples to Apples currently apple is Right on with its prices (like 200.00 over Dells way too low price and 800.00 less than Sonys way to high price) . Its not more money than any comparible PC and in some cases they are cheaper. Plus you get Vista now (mac os10 looks and operates like Vista) and something that will blow Vista in January just as Vista hits the shelves.

By the way I bought one for home not work and at home I stopped using the PC side altogether. If I have to work(ADT) at home I switch to the PC side and thats it but I dont work at home much.

75% more is maybe a year ago or something but not with Intel pricing.

Have you notice more and more retailers selling Apples due to the fact that there is a halo effect going on with ipods. By the way go step into an Apple store and you tell me I am wrong (just the fact that you can barely walk in one should give you a clue something is going on) Most are ipod shoppers but soon will be imac shoppers (happened to me). There is a strong strategic mind working in Apple at the momment.

[betazero]

You can run Windows stuff inside Mac at full speed (not emulated)...so really that would be best of both worlds.

After messing with the Mac Pro I have seriously been concidering starting to swap out all our offices crappy Dells for those amazing things. The last Dell I bought was 1.5k (we have a crappy IT budget) and was nowhere close to the Mac Pros Specs. If for less than a thousand more I can get 5 times the machine I think I can sell that no problem.