AutoCAD Raster Design General Discussion

AutoCAD Raster Design General Discussion

Reply
*R.K. McSwain
Message 1 of 15 (383 Views)

Image Insertion

383 Views, 14 Replies
10-29-2007 03:48 PM
When inserting an image using Raster Design, on the Source
tab, the Coorelation Source is "Image File", and the
Coordinate System is "NAD83 NUTM14".

I switch to the Transform tab, and click "Transform to
drawing's coordinate system". In the pane above this, the
coordinate system of the drawing is correctly reflected. In
the pane above that, the Image coordinate system (NAD83
NUTM14) is once again shown to me in text, but the code in
the edit box is "LL".

Why do I have to go and select the image zone as "UTM83-14"?
If Raster Design knows the zone from the image (NAD83
NUTM14), why can't it figure out "UTM83-14"?

Is it just not meant to do that?
Are the image makers using the wrong codes?

TIA

--
R.K. McSwain
http://rkmcswain.blogspot.com
*Matt Osborn
Message 2 of 15 (383 Views)

Re: Image Insertion

10-30-2007 08:51 AM in reply to: *R.K. McSwain
We automatically select the right coordinate system
whenever possible. In this case, the image file has a CS
tag that says "NAD83 NUTM14" (what's a "NUTM"?).
We don't understand that one, so we let the user know
exactly what the image reports and leave it up to him
to figure out the proper mapping to Mentor codes.
When we don't know the mapping, that edit box defaults
to the last manually selected coordinate system
(or, if you've never selected one before, "LL").

Matt

"R.K. McSwain" wrote in message
news:5763790@discussion.autodesk.com...
When inserting an image using Raster Design, on the Source
tab, the Coorelation Source is "Image File", and the
Coordinate System is "NAD83 NUTM14".

I switch to the Transform tab, and click "Transform to
drawing's coordinate system". In the pane above this, the
coordinate system of the drawing is correctly reflected. In
the pane above that, the Image coordinate system (NAD83
NUTM14) is once again shown to me in text, but the code in
the edit box is "LL".

Why do I have to go and select the image zone as "UTM83-14"?
If Raster Design knows the zone from the image (NAD83
NUTM14), why can't it figure out "UTM83-14"?

Is it just not meant to do that?
Are the image makers using the wrong codes?

TIA

--
R.K. McSwain
http://rkmcswain.blogspot.com
*David Parker
Message 3 of 15 (383 Views)

Re: Image Insertion

10-30-2007 09:16 AM in reply to: *R.K. McSwain
A NUTM is a utm coord in the zone north of the equator.

http://welcome.warnercnr.colostate.edu/class_info/nr502/lg3/datums_coordinates/utm.html

dave



"Matt Osborn" wrote in message
news:5764333@discussion.autodesk.com...
We automatically select the right coordinate system
whenever possible. In this case, the image file has a CS
tag that says "NAD83 NUTM14" (what's a "NUTM"?).
We don't understand that one, so we let the user know
exactly what the image reports and leave it up to him
to figure out the proper mapping to Mentor codes.
When we don't know the mapping, that edit box defaults
to the last manually selected coordinate system
(or, if you've never selected one before, "LL").

Matt

"R.K. McSwain" wrote in message
news:5763790@discussion.autodesk.com...
When inserting an image using Raster Design, on the Source
tab, the Coorelation Source is "Image File", and the
Coordinate System is "NAD83 NUTM14".

I switch to the Transform tab, and click "Transform to
drawing's coordinate system". In the pane above this, the
coordinate system of the drawing is correctly reflected. In
the pane above that, the Image coordinate system (NAD83
NUTM14) is once again shown to me in text, but the code in
the edit box is "LL".

Why do I have to go and select the image zone as "UTM83-14"?
If Raster Design knows the zone from the image (NAD83
NUTM14), why can't it figure out "UTM83-14"?

Is it just not meant to do that?
Are the image makers using the wrong codes?

TIA

--
R.K. McSwain
http://rkmcswain.blogspot.com
*R.K. McSwain
Message 4 of 15 (383 Views)

Re: Image Insertion

10-30-2007 10:20 AM in reply to: *R.K. McSwain
Matt Osborn wrote:
> We automatically select the right coordinate system
> whenever possible. In this case, the image file has a CS
> tag that says "NAD83 NUTM14" (what's a "NUTM"?).
> We don't understand that one, so we let the user know
> exactly what the image reports and leave it up to him
> to figure out the proper mapping to Mentor codes.
> When we don't know the mapping, that edit box defaults
> to the last manually selected coordinate system
> (or, if you've never selected one before, "LL").

Thanks for the explanation Matt.
Do you plan to support tags such as NAD83 NUTM14 now that
you have a resource for figuring them out, or should we ask
our image provider to adhere to some published standard? If
so, what standard?


--
R.K. McSwain
http://rkmcswain.blogspot.com
*Matt Osborn
Message 5 of 15 (383 Views)

Re: Image Insertion

10-30-2007 02:01 PM in reply to: *R.K. McSwain
Thanks Dave. But we are well aware of what UTM is.
(Mentor and EPSG don't appear to use the acronym "NUTM")

I've oversimplified the situation in my example. RK didn't
say what image type he is working with, but let's assume
we're talking about a GeoTIFF. The header of the GeoTIFF
must contain a valid ProjectedCSTypeGeoKey. Most of the
time we can map this EPSG code to a Mentor CS code that
AutoCAD understands (it's not always possible, as there's not
a one-to-one mapping between the systems). If the image
doesn't have that key, or it's an invalid/unknown key, or we
can't map it, then we present the user with as much as we do
know. Often this is just a text citation from the header (which
is what I'm guessing "NAD83 NUTM14" is). We're not going
to do a fuzzy-logic string compare and try to guess what the
intended CS is. So in cases like that, it's up to user to select the CS.

Matt

"David Parker" wrote in message
news:5764375@discussion.autodesk.com...
A NUTM is a utm coord in the zone north of the equator.

http://welcome.warnercnr.colostate.edu/class_info/nr502/lg3/datums_coordinates/utm.html

dave



"Matt Osborn" wrote in message
news:5764333@discussion.autodesk.com...
We automatically select the right coordinate system
whenever possible. In this case, the image file has a CS
tag that says "NAD83 NUTM14" (what's a "NUTM"?).
We don't understand that one, so we let the user know
exactly what the image reports and leave it up to him
to figure out the proper mapping to Mentor codes.
When we don't know the mapping, that edit box defaults
to the last manually selected coordinate system
(or, if you've never selected one before, "LL").

Matt

"R.K. McSwain" wrote in message
news:5763790@discussion.autodesk.com...
When inserting an image using Raster Design, on the Source
tab, the Coorelation Source is "Image File", and the
Coordinate System is "NAD83 NUTM14".

I switch to the Transform tab, and click "Transform to
drawing's coordinate system". In the pane above this, the
coordinate system of the drawing is correctly reflected. In
the pane above that, the Image coordinate system (NAD83
NUTM14) is once again shown to me in text, but the code in
the edit box is "LL".

Why do I have to go and select the image zone as "UTM83-14"?
If Raster Design knows the zone from the image (NAD83
NUTM14), why can't it figure out "UTM83-14"?

Is it just not meant to do that?
Are the image makers using the wrong codes?

TIA

--
R.K. McSwain
http://rkmcswain.blogspot.com
*Matt Osborn
Message 6 of 15 (383 Views)

Re: Image Insertion

10-30-2007 02:06 PM in reply to: *R.K. McSwain
If it's a GeoTIFF then it has to use a standard EPSG code.
If you could send me your image I can take a look at it
and let you know what's wrong with it. If you can't send it,
I can send you a commandline utility that you can run on the
image to extract the information we need from its header.

Thanks,

Matt

"R.K. McSwain" wrote

Thanks for the explanation Matt.
Do you plan to support tags such as NAD83 NUTM14 now that
you have a resource for figuring them out, or should we ask
our image provider to adhere to some published standard? If
so, what standard?


--
R.K. McSwain
http://rkmcswain.blogspot.com
*David Parker
Message 7 of 15 (383 Views)

Re: Image Insertion

10-30-2007 02:33 PM in reply to: *R.K. McSwain
That's Ok. I didn,t. So what is Mentor and EPSG relative to this
discussion? This sounds like a similar probem I have had with some photos
(SID) not spitting the information out freely

Thanks


Dave


"Matt Osborn" wrote in message
news:5764835@discussion.autodesk.com...
Thanks Dave. But we are well aware of what UTM is.
(Mentor and EPSG don't appear to use the acronym "NUTM")

I've oversimplified the situation in my example. RK didn't
say what image type he is working with, but let's assume
we're talking about a GeoTIFF. The header of the GeoTIFF
must contain a valid ProjectedCSTypeGeoKey. Most of the
time we can map this EPSG code to a Mentor CS code that
AutoCAD understands (it's not always possible, as there's not
a one-to-one mapping between the systems). If the image
doesn't have that key, or it's an invalid/unknown key, or we
can't map it, then we present the user with as much as we do
know. Often this is just a text citation from the header (which
is what I'm guessing "NAD83 NUTM14" is). We're not going
to do a fuzzy-logic string compare and try to guess what the
intended CS is. So in cases like that, it's up to user to select the CS.

Matt

"David Parker" wrote in message
news:5764375@discussion.autodesk.com...
A NUTM is a utm coord in the zone north of the equator.

http://welcome.warnercnr.colostate.edu/class_info/nr502/lg3/datums_coordinates/utm.html

dave



"Matt Osborn" wrote in message
news:5764333@discussion.autodesk.com...
We automatically select the right coordinate system
whenever possible. In this case, the image file has a CS
tag that says "NAD83 NUTM14" (what's a "NUTM"?).
We don't understand that one, so we let the user know
exactly what the image reports and leave it up to him
to figure out the proper mapping to Mentor codes.
When we don't know the mapping, that edit box defaults
to the last manually selected coordinate system
(or, if you've never selected one before, "LL").

Matt

"R.K. McSwain" wrote in message
news:5763790@discussion.autodesk.com...
When inserting an image using Raster Design, on the Source
tab, the Coorelation Source is "Image File", and the
Coordinate System is "NAD83 NUTM14".

I switch to the Transform tab, and click "Transform to
drawing's coordinate system". In the pane above this, the
coordinate system of the drawing is correctly reflected. In
the pane above that, the Image coordinate system (NAD83
NUTM14) is once again shown to me in text, but the code in
the edit box is "LL".

Why do I have to go and select the image zone as "UTM83-14"?
If Raster Design knows the zone from the image (NAD83
NUTM14), why can't it figure out "UTM83-14"?

Is it just not meant to do that?
Are the image makers using the wrong codes?

TIA

--
R.K. McSwain
http://rkmcswain.blogspot.com
*R.K. McSwain
Message 8 of 15 (383 Views)

Re: Image Insertion

10-30-2007 07:47 PM in reply to: *R.K. McSwain
Matt Osborn wrote:
> If it's a GeoTIFF then it has to use a standard EPSG code.
> If you could send me your image I can take a look at it
> and let you know what's wrong with it. If you can't send it,
> I can send you a commandline utility that you can run on the
> image to extract the information we need from its header.

It's a 2GB ECW file. Better send me the utility.


--
R.K. McSwain
http://rkmcswain.blogspot.com
*Matt Osborn
Message 9 of 15 (383 Views)

Re: Image Insertion

10-31-2007 06:45 AM in reply to: *R.K. McSwain
They are two standards for coordinate systems.
EPSG stands for European Petroleum Survey Group:

http://www.epsg.org/

AutoCAD (Map) has always used the CS library from Mentor Software:

http://www.mentorsoftwareinc.com/

As you'll see from their new home page, Mentor was recently acquired by
Autodesk.
You can still access the content from their old site:

http://www.mentorsoftwareinc.com/faq/faq.htm

Matt

"David Parker" wrote in message
news:5764901@discussion.autodesk.com...
That's Ok. I didn,t. So what is Mentor and EPSG relative to this
discussion? This sounds like a similar probem I have had with some photos
(SID) not spitting the information out freely

Thanks


Dave


"Matt Osborn" wrote in message
news:5764835@discussion.autodesk.com...
Thanks Dave. But we are well aware of what UTM is.
(Mentor and EPSG don't appear to use the acronym "NUTM")

I've oversimplified the situation in my example. RK didn't
say what image type he is working with, but let's assume
we're talking about a GeoTIFF. The header of the GeoTIFF
must contain a valid ProjectedCSTypeGeoKey. Most of the
time we can map this EPSG code to a Mentor CS code that
AutoCAD understands (it's not always possible, as there's not
a one-to-one mapping between the systems). If the image
doesn't have that key, or it's an invalid/unknown key, or we
can't map it, then we present the user with as much as we do
know. Often this is just a text citation from the header (which
is what I'm guessing "NAD83 NUTM14" is). We're not going
to do a fuzzy-logic string compare and try to guess what the
intended CS is. So in cases like that, it's up to user to select the CS.

Matt

"David Parker" wrote in message
news:5764375@discussion.autodesk.com...
A NUTM is a utm coord in the zone north of the equator.

http://welcome.warnercnr.colostate.edu/class_info/nr502/lg3/datums_coordinates/utm.html

dave



"Matt Osborn" wrote in message
news:5764333@discussion.autodesk.com...
We automatically select the right coordinate system
whenever possible. In this case, the image file has a CS
tag that says "NAD83 NUTM14" (what's a "NUTM"?).
We don't understand that one, so we let the user know
exactly what the image reports and leave it up to him
to figure out the proper mapping to Mentor codes.
When we don't know the mapping, that edit box defaults
to the last manually selected coordinate system
(or, if you've never selected one before, "LL").

Matt

"R.K. McSwain" wrote in message
news:5763790@discussion.autodesk.com...
When inserting an image using Raster Design, on the Source
tab, the Coorelation Source is "Image File", and the
Coordinate System is "NAD83 NUTM14".

I switch to the Transform tab, and click "Transform to
drawing's coordinate system". In the pane above this, the
coordinate system of the drawing is correctly reflected. In
the pane above that, the Image coordinate system (NAD83
NUTM14) is once again shown to me in text, but the code in
the edit box is "LL".

Why do I have to go and select the image zone as "UTM83-14"?
If Raster Design knows the zone from the image (NAD83
NUTM14), why can't it figure out "UTM83-14"?

Is it just not meant to do that?
Are the image makers using the wrong codes?

TIA

--
R.K. McSwain
http://rkmcswain.blogspot.com
*Matt Osborn
Message 10 of 15 (383 Views)

Re: Image Insertion

10-31-2007 07:23 AM in reply to: *R.K. McSwain
I'm afraid I don't have a tool for ECW files.
ER Mapper may provide free utilities for viewing/editing ECW headers.
You'll notice from their website that their ECW format has fallen out of
favor... they are now pushing the non-proprietary JPEG2000 format.
Raster Design will read the correlation data from GeoJP2 files (as that just
uses an embedded GeoTIFF header).

Matt

"R.K. McSwain" wrote
Matt Osborn wrote:
> If it's a GeoTIFF then it has to use a standard EPSG code.
> If you could send me your image I can take a look at it
> and let you know what's wrong with it. If you can't send it,
> I can send you a commandline utility that you can run on the
> image to extract the information we need from its header.

It's a 2GB ECW file. Better send me the utility.


--
R.K. McSwain
http://rkmcswain.blogspot.com
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