Your advice for Plant 3D project schema for a large contract

[sergey.utkin]

Hi, i would like to know your advice for the following problem. We have some experience in Plant 3D 2013 and one of its major issues is, that Isometrics creates the ISO-drawings for all Model-drawings where the LineNumber runs. We are planning to design a large project (contract) in Plant 3D with about 10 engineers working on it simultaneously, they need to produce ISO-drawings for their separate part, without inclusion of neighboring areas of drawings. As there is no solution for a moment we are planning to create a single Plant 3D project for each area (engineer). The engineers that have to connect the pipes with the neighboring areas properly, will use the XREFs to the drawings from corresponding Plant 3D projects. I would like to know if there are known issues (Orto-, ISO-drawings, general productivity, etc.) with this schema? Another question is, if we will stay with the schema with one common project for all 10 areas, will there be issues with SQLite database productivity with 10 workstations, working with it simultaneously?

[feschaurich]

We are facing the same issue with the iso creation. In our project we have 30 areas, something about 4000 lines and 15 designers working at same time. For the construction company the isometric must be made by area with its respective number. As you said, there is no solution for this problem and nowadays we are spliting the isos by area "manually".

Plant 3D should have a option to generate isometric by physical area, this would solve my problems.

I strongly recommend that you use the SQL Express instead of SQLite. Here we're using the SQL express with 15 professionals working simultaneously and it's working fine. Sometimes a lost of comunication between drawing and database happens, but not so serious.

[sergey.utkin]

Hi, feschaurich, thanks for your reply!

Would you please tell, how do you split isos by area "manually"?

There are some other questions about your database engine. How do you backup/recover project if some issue occurs? We now have SQLite database and, if needed, we can easily restore the whole project folder from a backup as one step. If you must recover, say "yesterday's state" of the project, you have: 1) to restore the project folder and 2) to restore SQL-database?

Did you follow some Autodesk official guidelines or your own experience to select SQL Express for a large project?

[dgorsman]

Another +1 for SQL Server.  SQLite isn't designed for that kind of user load/traffic.  You may already have SQL Server running for other applications; if not, you should have at least a part-time SQL DB expert on hand to help with the configuration and management.  The management tools provide for such things as restoring back-ups, but its not something you can just walk into and get going.

[eadkins73]

I think if you add an "Area" Parameter to your line tags you should be able to run the iso based on a particular area.  You will have to redefine the lines tags in the P&ID and in the model so the will showup in the line number selector list as well as the iso creation list.  I have not tried this myself but I know I have added "service" parameters to my line tag and it will show up in the Iso creation dialog box.  For example: "CO-1003".  I don't see why it couldn't be defined as "66-CO-1003" for an Area 66 drawing lets say.

[sergey.utkin]

Thank you all for the replies.

As for SQLite\SQL Express\SQL Server options, the feature of the last 2 is, that the database information is stored separate from the other Plant 3D project files. And to work out an effective backup/restore system means to create synchronized database backup and project files backup? Would anyone please share their experience in this task?

The backup/restore system is really an important part of design process for us. We had to restore Plant 3D projects periodically due to some pre Service Pack 1 and HotFixes issues in Plant 3D 2013.

As for adding "Area" parameter to LineNumber Tag, in Plant 3D we have found no way for a linenumber to inherit a property from Plant 3D model drawing. If you were suggesting to split the large linenumber into separate parts and name then including project area parameter, this is really not an option for us, because designer would have to deal with a large list of linenumbers (few dozens of LineNumber Tags from P&ID, multiplied by say 10 project areas which gives over 100 unique LineNumber Tags).

[kudryavcevrm]

Hello from Saratov, S_Utkin ! As from our Plant-3D (6 monthes) and Plant-4D (2 years) experience, we make backup for every 4 hours as for all of the SQL Server databases (one server for all users) and for special "Plant" shared folder, where all of the project files has been stored. We also use windows shadow copies for this share folder. Also as for us, we never to rollback plant project databases. It is enough to restore corrupred dwg (Plant model) only, replace dwg file and refresh database after.

[martinTstewart_Adsk]

FYI…
Here are a couple links to AU Classes on-demand that tie-in well with this topic:
PD4675: Making the Move from SQLite to Microsoft® SQL Server®: AutoCAD® Plant 3D Database Configuration
http://au.autodesk.com/au-online/classes-on-demand/class-catalog/2011/autocad-plant-3d/making-the-mo...
PD2653: Managing a Complete Site Over Multiple AutoCAD® Plant 3D Projects
http://au.autodesk.com/au-online/classes-on-demand/class-catalog/2012/autocad-plant-3d/managing-a-co...
And here is a link to a white paper that also applies:
http://autocad.autodesk.com/ama/orig/plant/How_to_Manage_Large_Projects.pdf

[dean_bloomer]

Hi Martin,

Absolute newbie here.

trying to follow the link for http:// autocad.autodesk.com/ama/orig/plant/How_to_Manage_Large_Projects.pdf unsuccessfully.

tried searching the Autodesk domain for file name also.

Any hints?

Ta Dean

[martinTstewart_Adsk]

Yes, here's the updated link:

Managing large AutoCAD Plant 3D projects

[dean_bloomer]

Cheers Martin.