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Inter office collaboration dillemma...

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Message 1 of 28
dzine14u
865 Views, 27 Replies

Inter office collaboration dillemma...

Dear P3D User Group & Autodesk Professionals:

 

In my 20+ years of doing CAD design it has never been an issue for multiple people to collaborate and work together on a single 3D model or drawing.  Before users would do their portion and then their work would be inserted into the main drawing or model.  However, this is not quite as simple with the P3D piping.  When inserting piping from another model often the colors and layers change or the connectivity of the pipes, fittings and valves are often lost.  Right now we are just using copy/paste from one model to the main model.  There must be a better way!

 

Can someone offer suggestions for multiple users to collaborate work in our office on 3D piping layout so we can easily mesh the piping work together in our main model fluidly, with far better results and less rework.  If that is even possible?  We have searched the Autodesk knowledge base and have not found any good advice.

Chuck Altmix
Lead Engineering Designer
Upper Consulting, Inc.
www.upperconsulting.com
27 REPLIES 27
Message 21 of 28
patpat79
in reply to: dzine14u

Hi we have been done 1200 lines, 220 equipment in our last project, with no errors nor bumps, yours is just 300 and your laughing at it? I am an admin in our piping department here in the Philippines, a Japanese company that greatly values quality, I think you have an idea what's the name. This recent project that we had accomplished is very small compared to what we are currently working on. Well, it's our procedure and standard that I had just shared because I thought it would help anyone. Thanks by the way.

Best Regards,
Pat Andres
Autodesk Expert Elite
Plant 3D Administrator
GHD Manila

Message 22 of 28
dzine14u
in reply to: patpat79

Patpat:

 

Thank you for your input.  I would like to emphasize again that we are still new to the P3D intelligent piping and are learning more every day.  I think our biggest hurdle is that fact that we are a very small firm of just a few people and have taken on a very large project.  Without formal training on the full capabilities of P3D, we have used this project to learn the piping and utilize it on our own.  We still have much to learn.  In addition, we did not use the P&ID portion of the software on this project as the P&ID's were produced by another firm and not in P3D.  With time NOT on our side we simply went to work on creating a very complex 3D model (I say we but mostly me).  It has been one of the largest challenges I have faced in my career, but again, we have learned a lot in the process.

 

Today we successfully created our first 493 iso piping sheets...a huge milestone.

 

We do see the value in xrefs and will continue to improve how we manage larger projects with their extensive use.  We have never had a problem in the past with collaboration...but then again, this is our first attempt to utilize the intelligent piping.  We are learning.

Chuck Altmix
Lead Engineering Designer
Upper Consulting, Inc.
www.upperconsulting.com
Message 23 of 28

I think its just going to be a change in workflow and (internal) process on how you are running a project. Its best to break the job down into 'workable' area's and give each designer their own area, be it a space, or a set of numbers in a model, or by something to break the project down. XREF'ing between model's isn't an issue, so you  just stop one model at a Tee (or elbow) for example, and then the next model continues the pipe run.

 

I wouldn't lean towards trying to copy things into a master model. For example, if you had 10 area's in your project, I would break each area into its own discipline, so that makes 30 models. One for Piping, one for Equipment and one for Plant3D Structure, for each area. That way you can have different designers working on different area's without having to go tap someone on the shoulder asking them to exit their model.



Tomislav Golubovic
Technical Specialist - Plant and Infrastructure
Autodesk Australia / New Zealand
Autodesk, Inc.
Autodesk ANZ YouTube Channel
Message 24 of 28
patpat79
in reply to: dzine14u

Hi,good to hear you are progressing with Plant 3D well, i hope you got to know more of its use and features, most like for customization but now, Kudos for the learning of workflow and procedures. I had also started using Plant 3D when i was still on a small team in my previous company. Lots of work, less man power, that's why, plans, standard and procedures to maximize the manhour and the software efficiency was our top priority back then. In my present company, we have PDS, PDMS, SP3D and Plant 3D in use, and as to what i am seeing, Plant 3D could be the future P&ID and Piping software to dominate in the near future(Just my thought). Cheers!

Best Regards,
Pat Andres
Autodesk Expert Elite
Plant 3D Administrator
GHD Manila

Message 25 of 28
lauth
in reply to: dzine14u

Hi Chuck,

 

I have been watching the frustration you have been going through online & I thought this might help.  It is set up similarly to the link about how to manage large projects.  I too have been in a similar situation to yours, with no formal training & trying to make it work on the fly.  It's getting easier as I learn & as they improve the software.

 

I used to work in an office where they used “another major plant program”, however, they were not efficient or disciplined enough to create the NWDs effectively – it took hours to create with many duplicated models, making it sluggish to use.  I realized that I needed to create a hierarchy of xrefs & a template folder for project setups that already contained the drawings as they are shown.  This setup will create a drawing that can be turned into an NWD in seconds without duplication of xrefs if done correctly.  It also shows the breakdown of the piping by service.  If all xrefs are @ 0,0,0, there should be no problem with connectivity.

 

I realize this is a lille off the subject, being mainly concerned with NWD creation, but it works for file management as well.

 

There are a hundred ways to skin a cat, & you will have your own way of breaking things down, but I would bet that if you came up with a nice visual such as this for your people (the visual thinkers that they are), it will turn out much easier for you.

 

Regards,

Lisa

 

workflow.JPG

Message 26 of 28
dzine14u
in reply to: lauth

Lisa:

 

Thanks to you as well for your input.  Sounds like you have been in the same exact position.  When I tell people we are a very small firm I don't think they realize that I am talking about a group of four...two of which are fresh out of school and have only recently joined our group.  So a large project such as the one we are currently tackling is a collossal task for us.  We are responsible for nearly every aspect of the project with the exception of the building itself.

 

This was obviously not the best situation to be in to self-learn how to use all the added functionality of P3D.  I am a wizard when it comes to creating complex 3D models of an entire plant, equipment, etc. but this intelligent piping is a whole different animal.

 

On the brighter side...we have gained new phrases like "Blow it out your olet!" LOL.   I hate olets in P3D!!!  They dont seem to play well with everything else and have a mind of their own.

Chuck Altmix
Lead Engineering Designer
Upper Consulting, Inc.
www.upperconsulting.com
Message 27 of 28
dzine14u
in reply to: dzine14u

Ooops.  LOL  I meant Lauth. My apologies.

Chuck Altmix
Lead Engineering Designer
Upper Consulting, Inc.
www.upperconsulting.com
Message 28 of 28
milic.srdjan
in reply to: dzine14u

Greetings to all,

I read carefully all posts...
I understand discussion, but answer, will not be so easy (as You see everyone miss target with answer)
If You have one area, one unit, or one pipe on one drawing, than that drawing become read only when some designer starts to work, that complicated all things.

You must think, or try to find more information with Your Autodesk dealer and try Plant 3D with Vault collaboration...look at
http://www.autodesk.com/products/vault-family/overview

Srdjan


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