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freezing layers in Orthographic View Selection or in XREFs

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Message 1 of 27
eski
2780 Views, 26 Replies

freezing layers in Orthographic View Selection or in XREFs

I need to create some ortho 2D drawings and I am trying to figure out the correct work flow for this. I have piping drawn and I am trying to create an ortho plan drawing with a building and equipment included in the view. The building and equipment files include pieces that I will not need in the ortho 2D drawing, so I would normally freeze them. So what I did was select the original building and equipment files from the models to include into the "Orthographic View Selection (green box view)" with the appropriate pieces frozen (in their files) that I don't need to see. When I cut the view, the pieces I froze weren't there which was great. Everything works but the problem with that is if other people reference those building or equipment files, they will have things frozen that shouldn't be for them. To try and fix this, I created a separate file called "plan view" with the building and equipment referenced in. I froze the pieces I don't need then chose the "plan view" from the models to include box into the "Orthographic View Selection (green box view)". The problem with doing that is the parts that I froze are not retained into the view. The "Orthographic View Selection (green box view)" is not allowing me to freeze things. When i cut the view, the objects come back. What is the correct work flow to create plan views?

26 REPLIES 26
Message 2 of 27
jason.drew
in reply to: eski

Hi Eli,

 

I did some testing on this and I'm seeing similar results. I just to make sure I'm using the same environment in my test:

 

Scenario 1:

 

1. XREF an external drawing into a Plant 3D 2012 project with layers already frozen in the original drawing

2. Define a new ortho view

3. Layers are still frozen on view generation

 

This works, but affects others who use the XREF drawings.

 

 

Scenario 2:

 

1. XREF an extenal drawing into a Plant 3D 2012 project

2. Freeze XREF layers using layer manager

3. Define an new ortho view

 

Result: The XREF layers are automatically thawed turing the ortho view boundary selection process. Resulting in all layers shown.

 

Please let us know if that is the case and I will look into a workaround.

 

Thank you,



Jason Drew
Designated Support Specialist
Message 3 of 27
eski
in reply to: eski

Jason,

 

Thanks for your reply.  Both scenarios you explained seem to be what happens to us as well.  We tried both those scenerios without them working so then we actually made a copies of original 3D files and then added them to the Project through the ProjectManager.  Once all the files were a part of the project we did the following:

 

1)  Created a new blank file in the "source files" tab under "Plant 3D Drawings" (lets call this TEST.dwg)

2)  Xref'd in copies of files added to the project (ex: arch bldg done in autocad arch, steel columns & beams done in

      autocad arch, mech equip. done using 3D solids, piping files done using Plant3D)

3)  In this newly created blank file (TEST.dwg) with the Xrefs we froze (also tried just turning OFF) layers using the layer

      manager, also turned layers different colors & lineweights. (VISRETAIN=1)

4)  We then clicked "Create Ortho View" on the "HOME" tab of the ribbon.

5)  In the "Select Orthographic Drawing" dialogue box, we created a new ortho drawing

6)  This brought up the temporary "green box" file called "Orthographic View Selection 1.dwg" where we clicked "Choose

      models to include" on the "Ortho Editor" contextual ribbon tab.

7)  In the "Select Reference Models" dialogue box I select only TEST.dwg and click "OK".

😎  Visually none of the changes (freezing/ON/OFF/color changes/lineweight changes) seem to have stuck.  Everything is

     visible and the colors originally from the files copied to the Project are shown.

9)  So when we actually get the green box oriented the way we want and click "Create Ortho View" the 2D view created

      shows all layers and colors originally from the copied files.

 

We want to be able manage our layers in the layer manager in that TEST.dwg file as a helper model to create the views we want, showing the correct information.  It seems that the ability to manage layers in the temporary "green box" view called "Orthographic View Selection 1" is not possible, and we dont want to manage layers in the original files copied to the Project.  So this seemed like the next best step.  It seems that we would need a "blank (helper file)" for each ortho 2D view we want to create.

 

The above steps for that process kind of came from a White Paper I found on the Plant Exchange website called "Managing Large Projects".  There was a section that seemed to suggest this process for managing layers for Ortho generation.  I will attach a scanned copy of that selection (starts on first page under "ORTHOGRAPHIC DRAWINGS").  In theory it makes sense, but for some reason we cannot get it to work.  Sorry for the long explanation, but we just didnt want to leave anything out.  Thanks for the help.

Message 4 of 27
jnmarsh02
in reply to: eski

Jason,

 

Has this problem been resolved? I am using autocad 2012 plant 3d. A fix for this would save lots of time in drawing creation.

 

Thanks

Jerry

Message 5 of 27
eski
in reply to: eski

sorry, none that i have heard of.  I havent tested it in Plant3D 2013 yet either.

Message 6 of 27
eski
in reply to: eski

I have finally installed Plant3D 2013 and tested out my above methods again.  There has been no changes so far that i can tell.  It still seems like the layers can not be managed in the green box view.  The white paper that was referenced in my comment still makes sense to me in theory but cannot figure out why it doesnt work on our end.  It would be real nice if we could get some more feedback on this from anyone at autodesk or on the plant3d team.

Message 7 of 27
blorich
in reply to: eski

I just so happened to run into this very same problem also.  My situation is we have a building.dwg that has side walls, roofs and floor, and I want to hide the roof so I can get a complete plan view of the building.  If I was to slide the clipping plane down I would then start cutting away at some of the steel and equipment because of the slope of the building. 

 

So my work around for this was to create the roof as its own .dwg.   Was easy to fix, but I don't want to start creating xrefs for each piece of steel just because I don't want to show something. 

 

 

Message 8 of 27
eski
in reply to: jason.drew

I have just installed Plant3D 2014 and this problem is still NOT fixed!  I am quite furious and have no clue why this cant happen or a better work around is not being described.  How am I suppose to use the tools to make othos in Plant3D if they wont address what should be a simple yet greatly needed fix.  It has been 3 releases now of this software, and I have been patiently and eagerly adopting the latest release in hopes improvements in this area would be made.  But I have seen very minimal advancments in the ortho documentation process.  I am almost at a loss for words, incredibly mad that this and the other major problem (incorrect catalog parameter sizes for standard components) with software has not been addressed yet.  Can I please get into contact with someone so I can possibly explain this better and work towards a solution or workaround?  I want to be able to spend most of my time in Plant3D and complete a project using just this software, but currently can not see how this would be feasible.  I am just looking for a little feedback and some help here.  Thanks.

Message 9 of 27
TheCadGuyDavid
in reply to: eski

I am working with point clouds at the moment, and I am running into the same issue. I also ran into the issue when working with a building from Revit.

 

It would be a great idea to make it so one can freeze layers one does not want to see... before creating the ortho view. All one would have to do in the coding is make an if-then that checks if the drawing has the layer frozen and then does not include any object on that layer for the clipping process during the number crunching part of ortho creation. 

 

As it stands, after creating the view, one has to manage a new layer for every ortho view (top, front, right, etc.). It is quite a hassle to manage after the fact and sometimes makes the drawing view unusuable. I have to delete all the markers I use from the point cloud right now, so that they don't show up and obscure anything I want to see in the ortho drawing, which means I loose valuable placeholders. And I have to make crazy jogs to miss parts of the rafters. What a waste of time!

 

Thanks for adding the centerlines, matchlines, and what not... but the car will not move much faster with flat tires--no matter how big the engine. I figured this would have been addressed for 2014 at least. AutoDesk can't say it is because a lack of comunication from the user base. We have done our part, please do yours.

 

David

Message 10 of 27
thebearjed
in reply to: TheCadGuyDavid

we having been asking for this for quite a while now. it is a serious problem...pay attention Autodesk!
Message 11 of 27
frenchyoutoo
in reply to: thebearjed

I think i have foudn the solution to this problem. (if its the same problem i have been encountering).

 

First go to the Home Tab and under 'Project Manager' go to 'Project set-up'.

 

A window should pop up. On the left select "Ortho DWG Settings" the again select the sub option under it "Titleblock and Display".

 

On the right click on "Set up Title Block" Button.

 

This will take you to a new window workspace area with a new ribbon option.

 

Then on the ribbon select "Ortho Settings" and another window should pop up. This window shows the layer options you can change. I foudn that by selecting the box "Use 3D model layers" helps by bringing in all layers associated with imported Models for Orthgraphic views.

 

You should be able to select a layer and freeze it (once you have selected models for your ortho view) and then they should pop up. even change layer colours and all that jazz.

 

Hope this is what you were after I just found this out just now while at work spending all day yesterday wondering what the heck was going on.

Message 12 of 27
eski
in reply to: frenchyoutoo

frenchyoutoo,

 

Thanks for contributing to this issue, ,many of us have been asking for a solution to this for quite a few releases now, and have yet to hear anything from Autodesk about it.  It's very frustrating and actually horribly disrespectful that we cannot even get some kind of feedback from them.  

 

With that being said, I tried what you have described and I wasn't able to capture the freezing or layer modifications (color/lw) in the 2D ortho view.  I followed your step exactly and once I selected my models to use in "the green box" view, I went to my layer manager and froze some layers, and changed others to be different colors and Lineweights.  I clicked "ok" on the ribbon and placed my view on the ortho titleblock.  After the "extraction" of the ortho view was finished, all the layer modifications I performed were lost, nothing changed.  

 

The only thing I noticed was, by checking the box in the setup, the layers used the same colors on the 2d ortho view instead of all being placed on the assigned layer.  

 

Again, thanks for contributing, I hope to one day have some sort of answer from Autodesk about this.  Even to tell us that this may never happen, I JUST WANT TO KNOW! haha.  Anyways, if you find out anything else, please keep posting, I will gladly try out any other ideas.


Thanks,

Eli

Message 13 of 27
thebearjed
in reply to: eski

i was hoping that it would be fixed in this last expansion but nope...it is a really big and time consuming problem.
Message 14 of 27
jason.drew
in reply to: thebearjed

Are you using Plant 3D 2015 Extension 1? I just tested the new release last week and was able to freeze layers during Ortho view selection and it retained those selections, even when going back to edit the view.

 

You can use Help -> About to see if you have Extension 1 installed or type in PLANTVER on the command line.

 

If you're running Plant 3D 2015 Extension 1 this should be displayed:

 

AutoCAD Plant 3D 2015: Release: 6.100, Build: E.104.1044

 

 



Jason Drew
Designated Support Specialist
Message 15 of 27
jnmarsh02
in reply to: eski

I found the same results. I am using 2014. It has been a requested "enhancement" since 2011. 

Message 16 of 27
eski
in reply to: jason.drew

Jason,

 

Thanks for the updates.  I raced into work today to try your suggestions.  I installed the extension 1 update for 2015 and began making some orthos.  I still don't think it works 100%.  

 

When I started an ortho, in the "green box view", I opened the Layer manager and began, freezing, changing layer colors and lineweights and then hit "OK".  After the ortho view was done processing, it seemed some of the changes took effect while others didn't.  I edited the view, where I was taken back to the "green box view" and saw that the layers I froze, were still in fact frozen! Thank god! but some, not all, but some of the layers didn't retain their layer modifications (color, LW).  

 

So, again I went to the layer manager and made the same changes and hit "OK".  The updated ortho view did not show these changes.  I tried this multiple times, editing the view, changing layers in the "green box view" and looking for the results.  It seems odd that some changes work and others dont.  

 

I will try this on some other files to make sure it isn't something inside just this one.  

 

Please let me know if you have any more suggestions or can help out with this.  I really want to finally get this issue resolved so we can all begin using the ortho tools efficiently.

 

Thanks,

Eli

Message 17 of 27
eski
in reply to: jason.drew

Jason,

 

I just tried this on a brand new project with new files and I still do not get the results we'd hoped for.  It seems that the freezing of layers can be retained, but no such luck on layer modifications as far as color and lineweight.  I tried with default layer mapping settings in the ortho settings of project setup as well as with checking the box to "use model layers".  Neither option will retain any layer mods.  Is there anything else I could be missing?  I feel we are soo close to finally resolving this.  It has been years since you and I personally talked about this issue.  Can we please get some resolution.

 

Thanks,

Eli

Message 18 of 27
jason.drew
in reply to: eski

Hi Eli, 

 

I'm glad to hear the layer visibility is working for you now. So now on to the other options, such as lineweight and color.

 

The product support team has a ticket logged with our product developement group in regard to the lineweight layer selections. We had reports from several customers saying that these settings were not retained even with "Use 3D Model Layers" selected in the Ortho Title Block Setup. 

 

I'm assuming that if the "Use 3D Model Layers" is selected, you just want all layer settings (color, lineweight, linetype, etc.) to carry over into the ortho view that is generated correct?

 

 



Jason Drew
Designated Support Specialist
Message 19 of 27
eski
in reply to: jason.drew

Hi Jason,

 

Thanks for getting back to me(us). What we would like to see is that during the "green box view", where we can adjust the clipping box, choose what models to include, adjust other ortho settings, etc., is the ability to go into the layer manager and change the color of certain layers, as well as lineweights, linetypes, etc. Those modifications to the layers should be carried over to the resulting 2D ortho view.  

 

For instance, I have a piping model that was done in Plant3D, and then our structural group has structural steel model that was done in Revit (because that is the software most of our other departments use).  The steel model would be exported to a dwg and I would add that to my Plant3D project. While starting an ortho view, I would choose my piping model and their exported revit model. During the "green box view", I would like to go into the layer manager and select some of the steel model's layers and override their color to something like 254 and their lineweight .002". After doing this and clicking "OK", I would like to see on the 2D ortho view all the steel layer's color to be 254 with a .002" LW.  That way when we use our pen tables, we have 254 and other layers set up to be a screened percentage, this makes the piping "pop" out on the drawing and the steel fade away into the background.

 

That was just one example of many that could be solved by just making this change to the way layers are handled before the ortho view is processed.  And if we want to go back and edit any of those changes, we should be able to edit the view, and see those changes retained in the "green box view", then we could proceed with making any further adjustments.

 

Thanks for taking the time to try and get this issue resolved for us.  It needs to be done, many users have been asking for it for years.  And I have personally made numerous attempts to try and talk with anybody there on how we could get this fixed release after release.  

 

Please keep me informed on any progress.

 

Thanks,

Eli

Message 20 of 27
Arun_Kumar_K
in reply to: eski

ELI views are to be incorporated for effective use of Ortho.

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