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Creating Pipe Saddles

33 REPLIES 33
Reply
Message 1 of 34
JRPalmer
5730 Views, 0 Replies

Creating Pipe Saddles

I was trying to create a pipe saddle for fibreglass piping. I thought the easiest way was to modify an olet so that one end is BELL and the other is something. I was going to chance it to BELL but that did not seem right.

 

What should my end types be so that it connects to the pipe.

 

33 REPLIES 33
Message 2 of 34

Whatever you want it to be in the Project Configuration. Add your end types in the Joint Settings dialog box.



Tomislav Golubovic
Technical Specialist - Plant and Infrastructure
Autodesk Australia / New Zealand
Autodesk, Inc.
Autodesk ANZ YouTube Channel
Message 3 of 34
jason.drew
in reply to: JRPalmer

The BELL endtype is intended for bell and spigot connections so the connection/joint rules in Plant 3D wouldn't make the connection properly.

 

Is this part for a pipe saddle, as in a support? Or something similar to a reinforcing saddle?

 

Thank you,



Jason Drew
Designated Support Specialist
Message 4 of 34
FishrOfGrizz
in reply to: jason.drew

So was the author of this thread correct in using an Olet to create saddle? The saddle that I'm interested in would a saddle to provide a tap in a pipe.
Message 5 of 34
JohnHolder
in reply to: FishrOfGrizz

I mainly use PVC, and I ended up just using olets for my pipe saddles.  They seem to work ok.

 

Though I do not get the red 'connection'  line through them, nor a point showing a connection.

 



An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't.
-------------------------------------
"Do or do not... there is no try"
Master Yoda.
Message 6 of 34
FishrOfGrizz
in reply to: JohnHolder

Thanks John, could I get you to elaborate a little on the process you use to make this happen? And with your method, does it represent as a saddle would look? In this case, it would look like a half section of pipe glued onto the OD of a pipe where I'd end up having an instrument tap.


Thanks
Message 7 of 34
JohnHolder
in reply to: FishrOfGrizz

Been a while since I looked at how it was made.  

I thought I used TAP for the connection to the larger pipe, but it seems I used "Undefined_ET" for the connection to the larger pipe(Port 1(S1)) and "PSW" as the outlet to the smaller pipe(Port 2 (S2).  I am thinking now the Larger pipe connection should be "TAP"

 

All and all, the long desc. shows up properly in the BOM so for me it works.  but still bothers me that there is no red 'connection' line when the pipe line is highlighted.

 

I will modify the fitting to TAP and see what happens for a different project.

 



An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't.
-------------------------------------
"Do or do not... there is no try"
Master Yoda.
Message 8 of 34
FishrOfGrizz
in reply to: JohnHolder

Thanks John, I appreciate it.

Things like this should already exist as this is a normal attachment in
real life. Just saying.






Bryan
Bordelon .. Houston, Tx . . (main) 281-920-9559 . . . . (fax)
281-920-3559 . . (email) bryanb@ecl-eng.com
Message 9 of 34
JohnHolder
in reply to: FishrOfGrizz

Also found out that for Sch 40 - Flush bushings break ISO drawings ( if they are correctly modeled ) since they involve negative length start points. 

 

Flush bushings insert to a socket, and the smaller pipe starts inside the flush bushing being a negative length in regards to the socket.  They are having a look at this though.

 

It seems that PVC and HDPE pipe specs are largely not noticed.  I have had to make my sch 40 / pvcu and hdpe pipe specs largely from scratch.

George Fisher and Spears have very very limited specs avaliable, but they omit over half of their actual catalog.



An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't.
-------------------------------------
"Do or do not... there is no try"
Master Yoda.
Message 10 of 34
btrevena
in reply to: JRPalmer

Hi,

 

This has been on my list of ToDo things for a while.

We have Clamp-On Victaulic branch connections (Reinforcment Saddles in PE) that behave like an Olet.

Victaulic, PVC and PE Catalogues.

See video link demonstrating placement in 3D model.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bifudfTfbO0

 

Bruce

Message 11 of 34
BryanJB
in reply to: JohnHolder

I haven't been able to do anything to make an FRP saddle (created from an olet) stick to an FRP pipe. There seems to be every connection possible under the sun in the Pipe Connection Settings but it apparantly doesn't find anything it likes to make a connection. I wonder if anyone has made any new discoveries since this thread was started.

 

 

Message 12 of 34
btrevena
in reply to: BryanJB

Hi Bryan,

 

Are you using Nominal Flange Sizes for your FRP pipe Nominal Size or are you using the OD sizes? If using OD make sure the OD sizes are referenced in your strap component.

Also check the position and orientation of your ports. The PowerPoint on the attached link shows the port positions and steps through the workflow.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zp6p7ypijc4hd7h/Autodesk%20University%202014%20-%20Pipe%20Saddle%20Workflo...

 

Bruce

Message 13 of 34
BryanJB
in reply to: btrevena

Bruce, thanks for replying -

 

When you ask if I'm using Nominal Flange size - do you mean Nominal Pipe Size? Because that is the typical way of referencing nominal sizes in piping systems. In the spec editor it asks for both the Nominal and Matching Pipe OD so those are always provided for each component. The strap component, or the Olet turned into a saddle component, also references the same ND and Matching Pipe OD.

 

I took a look at the link you provided in your reference to port orientation. The only thing it shows in that video is the orientation of the clamps as in their video. So is that what you're referring to when you ask about the port orientation. Certainly the port, or branch outlet, would be rotated to whatever orienation is required for the piping design. That part of the process is a given but it would have no affect on whether it makes a connection or not.

 

This program is very flaky and its very easy to cause the spec to not work just by testing settings to achieve a connection - sometimes even if you return all settings to their original state. I've even had entire drawings disappear from my project. I've had to resort to restoring from an earlier save but I still lost half a days work on that drawing. This actually happened twice to me. Thankfully it was a test project. It worries me to think that this could easily happen to a real project.

 

Thanks again for reponding to me dilemma Bruce.

Message 14 of 34
dave.wolfe
in reply to: BryanJB

I may be off base, but is there a reason you can't use the saddle from the supports dialog? I may be misunderstanding the question.

2015-03-10_16-13-30.png

 

You can play with the dimensions to get other results too:

 

2015-03-10_16-15-53.png

Dave Wolfe
Isaiah 57:15



Tips and Tricks on our blog: ASTI blog
EXPERT ELITE MEMBER
Plant 3D Wish list
Message 15 of 34
JohnHolder
in reply to: dave.wolfe

The saddle we are talking about isn't a support item. It's a pipe attachment like an olet.


An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't.
-------------------------------------
"Do or do not... there is no try"
Master Yoda.
Message 16 of 34
BryanJB
in reply to: JohnHolder

However, it does allow you to create a saddle that really looks the part. But it doesn't have a branch connection in it. Not sure if this is possible. Maybe with enough reverse engineering it may be possible to add this. Also it would good if I could simply change the description of it in properties so that I could call it a "Branch Saddle" along with its other unique qualities. When I place my cursor over it after renaming it in properties it still describes it as a SUPPORT.

 

Dave do you have any idea on how to make that happen? That would get us a long ways down the road if you did.

 

Thanks

 

 

Message 17 of 34
btrevena
in reply to: BryanJB

Hi Bryan,

This image was embedded in my powerpoint.

ClampOnBranch.png

  • Create your block with insertion point at the cntre of your header (Port1)
  • Run PlantPartConvert and add Port 1 and Port 2
  • Add block to catalogue.

Note: that if you need to modify your block geometry you can modify the alias block generated by the Cat and Spec editor.
If you are developing components you run through various iterations of modifying the Ports or block units run PlantPartConvert again to delete the ports and reapply them. If your block name is unchnged the Cat and Spec editor will retain the previous version of Port and Unit parameters so delete the affected size entry for the component, add new size and associate your modified block with this new component size definition.

Your welcome to call Cadgroup Australia if you would like to discuss further.

Bruce

Message 18 of 34
JohnHolder
in reply to: btrevena

I thought about that, but *every* time I've made custom blocks there has been issues. Each and every time I've upgraded releases, with custom blocks as pipe fitting the pipe spec basically exploded. But that was a few years ago. Been bittin too many times, so I avoid custom blocks now.


An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't.
-------------------------------------
"Do or do not... there is no try"
Master Yoda.
Message 19 of 34
dave.wolfe
in reply to: JohnHolder

Does anyone have a datasheet for what this looks like?

Dave Wolfe
Isaiah 57:15



Tips and Tricks on our blog: ASTI blog
EXPERT ELITE MEMBER
Plant 3D Wish list
Message 20 of 34
JohnHolder
in reply to: dave.wolfe

These are some of the ones I used when I modeled up the blocks ( years ago and don't have them anymore )  I download the pdf dimensional catalog to make sure the parametric modeling is accurate.

 

http://parts.spearsmfg.com/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=22



An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't.
-------------------------------------
"Do or do not... there is no try"
Master Yoda.

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