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Message 1 of 8 (2,179 Views)

Bolt Lengths and @@@

2179 Views, 7 Replies
11-14-2012 12:59 PM

This is just to confirm something.

In the catalog builder for bolts the length of the bolt is got from what is input as the Length in the “Piping Component Properties” section. When you add @@@ into the description Plant 3D inserts the bolt into the model and gets the length from the “Piping Component Properties” using a project setting to round the value up. In Plant 3D 2013 it looks up a bolt table to see if the length is available.

Is this correct as I was expecting a bigger improvement from CadWorx

Employee
Posts: 102
Registered: ‎07-26-2007
Message 2 of 8 (2,111 Views)

Re: Bolt Lengths and @@@

11-16-2012 10:22 AM in reply to: PatrickByrne

Hi Patrick,

I started to reply to this yesterday based on my previous experience implementing bolt sizes but soon realized it was changed last release cycle so I asked the author of the changes for some notes about it and here is his response:

I hope I can declare that with short words…

For bolt length calculation we check the FlangeThickness values defined at flange and bolt set

If both are equal (or one is not set) and it’s no wafer component we use the bolt length defined inside bolt set

But if both are different we subtract the bolt set FlangeThickness from bolt set bolt length, add the flange FlangeThickness

Now  look for the next possible bolt ‘standard’ length (if define – if not we round up to next 10)

If we look now into 10HS01 spec we see that the DN 50 flange has as defined FlangeThickness a length of 18.0 mm

Now let us have a look now into the bolt set definition. We see that there is FlangeThickness defined with 20.00 mm and an overall length 87.0 mm

We see that the bolt set and flange FlangeThickness are different so we have to recalculate (booth used flanges are equal)

87.0 20.0 20.0 + 18.0 + 18.0 = 83.0

So we get a new calculated bolt length 83.0 mm … the next possible ‘standard’ bolt length would be 85.0

This definitions and recalculations give us the possibility for easier use of different flange sheet thickness with the same base definition PressureClass, NominalDiameter, EndType, Facing for bolt set selection – that is otherwise problematic if we connect  an orifice flange with a welded flange … the orifice flange normally has a larger flange sheet for the instrument connections but the same base definitions so we would always get the same bolt length defined in bolt set.

So we have only 1 bolt set for the base properties with 1 standard FlangeThickness we used for base length and recalculate it if necessary.

if look like for

• DN 100:   95.0 24.024.0 + 20.0 + 20.0=   87.0  -> next possible bolt length would be   90.0
• DN 125:   99.0 26.026.0 + 22.0 + 22.0=   91.0 -> next possible bolt length would be    95.0
• DN 150: 112.0 28.028.0 + 22.0 + 22.0 = 100.0 -> next possible bolt length would be 100.0

I hope this short overview help to understand the different bolt length values

Jorge Lopez
Software Architect
Autodesk Plant Solutions
Autodesk, Inc.

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Posts: 385
Registered: ‎07-07-2011
Message 3 of 8 (2,095 Views)

Re: Bolt Lengths and @@@

11-17-2012 02:46 AM in reply to: PatrickByrne

One question, which is utility of Bolt Standard in Catalogs? In the Spec Editor: Catalogs->Edit Bolts Length Maping...

Each catalog have diferent standard.

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Yury Bogdanov
ASIDEK(Grupo CT) - Partner Directo de Autodesk
Barcelona (Spain)
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Message 4 of 8 (1,973 Views)

Re: Bolt Lengths and @@@

11-26-2012 01:00 PM in reply to: lopezjo

Thank you Jorge, I am currently using Plant 3D 2012, but hopefully moving to Plant 3D 2013 soon. I see in 2013 there is a lot more to the bolts and it appears to be more intelligent. This is something to look at later.

Active Contributor
Posts: 27
Registered: ‎06-03-2011
Message 5 of 8 (1,896 Views)

Re: Bolt Lengths and @@@

12-05-2012 04:11 AM in reply to: PatrickByrne

hi, the BOLT STANDARD LENGHT shlould take the available lenght form the EDIT BOLT LENGHT MAPPING function inside the catalog. But it doesn't. If i define a new BOLT MAPPING STANDARD call DIN931 and inserting the same valure (DIN931) in the BOLTCOMPATIBLESTD field of the bolt component it should take the value entered. Let's speak about M16 --> lenght 86: the result is that the system take anywasy 85 as calculated according to what you have explained. Where is really defined the STANDARD BOLT AVAILABLE LENGHT? thanks

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Posts: 5
Registered: ‎11-14-2011
Message 6 of 8 (1,407 Views)

Re: Bolt Lengths and @@@

05-22-2013 07:23 AM in reply to: PatrickByrne

Thanks a lot Jorge!

This helps me very much. I was been told that the calculation works in a completly different way and therefore i didn't understood why the calculation is alway wrong.

But I think such informations should be available in the online-help. This would avoid many problems beforehand!

And it's true. The Bolt compactible standard mapping is just not working. Please FIX IT!

Best regards

Klaus from Salzburg/Austria

Active Contributor
Posts: 40
Registered: ‎05-27-2010
Message 7 of 8 (1,209 Views)

Re: Bolt Lengths and @@@

09-04-2013 03:30 AM in reply to: k.schachinger

Hallo Klaus,

kannst du dich mal mit mir in Verbindung setzen.

mfg

Hartmut

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Posts: 14
Registered: ‎08-15-2014
Message 8 of 8 (224 Views)

Re: Bolt Lengths and @@@

09-24-2014 01:13 PM in reply to: lopezjo

I understand that the bolt length is calculated based on the flange thicknesses, but it must consider the height of the nut and washer thickness as well doesn't it?. The company I work for is currently implementing the plant 2015 suite for the first time. I am in charge of the implemnetation. We use materials such as PVC, FRP, HDPE quite often. The only catalog I find bolt sets in is the ASME Piping Catalog. So I am having to dig deeper in my understanding of how bolt lengths are calculated so I can be sure to set up correctly. Example, the main Catalog we use is the Spears_Sch_80_Pipes_and_Fittings_Catalog.pcat. I found that for some reason, the flange thickness was left out of the catalog for the various flanges. So because my bolt sets came from the ASME catalog, the bolt length is being caculated based on carbon steel flange thickness, which is a problem as PVC SCH80 flanges are thicker so it's giving me bolts that are too short. I must go into the catalog and enter all the flange thickness data. (Could Autodesk fix this for future version of this Spec?)

But for now I wanted to find out where the program calculates the nut height so I can be sure to get the correct bolt length based on the nuts and washers we use.

I know where to set flange thicknesses.

Thanks

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