AutoCAD P&ID General Discussion

AutoCAD P&ID General Discussion

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Active Contributor
tgwestbrook
Posts: 29
Registered: ‎08-25-2010
Message 1 of 10 (1,010 Views)

How to switch to alternate equipment tag format?

1010 Views, 9 Replies
12-28-2011 11:49 AM

Is it possible to switch the tag format after a piece of equipment has been placed?

 

The company i work for has a um...'unique' tagging system for their P&IDs.  Many types of equipment may have a different tag format depending on where it is in the process.  E.G, a Storage Tank can be either 

 

[AREA]-[Type]-[Number]A01-ST-12

or

[AREA]-[Type][Number]-[Service]A01-ST12-AA

 

Both tag formats exist in the 'Tag Format' box in Project Setup, but the equipment seems permentantly locked into whatever the 'TagFormatName' default is set.  Is there a way to switch the tag type for a single piece of equipment?  I would like to avoid having to avoid having to create duplicate instances of all the equipment to make the alternate tag available.

Product Support
Joshua.Benoist
Posts: 518
Registered: ‎08-23-2006
Message 2 of 10 (992 Views)

Re: How to switch to alternate equipment tag format?

12-29-2011 01:37 PM in reply to: tgwestbrook

Hi,

 

To resolve your support request, we need additional information from you.

 

It would help to have a sample of your file(s).

 

We need to reproduce the issue.  It will help to see your workflow,  the behavior, and where to look for this issue.  There is a free video recorder called www.jingproject.com.  Please make us a video of the issue.  Jing allows you to upload the video to a website called www.Screencast.com, for free.  Jing places a link to the video onto your computers clipboard.  Simply paste that link into a reply to this email and we can then watch it from here.

 

We will resume troubleshooting when we receive the requested information.  Have a great day.

 



Joshua Benoist, PE
Senior Support Specialist
Product Support
Autodesk, Inc.

Active Contributor
tgwestbrook
Posts: 29
Registered: ‎08-25-2010
Message 3 of 10 (987 Views)

Re: How to switch to alternate equipment tag format?

12-29-2011 02:33 PM in reply to: Joshua.Benoist

I don’t mean to be confrontational, especially when asking for help, but this reply baffles me.  

 

The original post was a question on if it was possible to use more than one tag format for a single equipment class.  There is no software bug or issue to reproduce; there is nothing to capture, and nothing that having my project files would help shed clarify.  Also, there is no email to reply to.  Was it just a cut and paste without reading the post?  A reply to the wrong thread?

 

To clarify what I am asking:

Our P&ID standards use multiple Tag Formats for a single class of equipment.  Is it possible to change the Tag Format on a single instance of a P&ID object within a particular class?  

 

In 'Project Setup' -> Class settings:' there is the TagFormatName, where you chose the default Tag Format from the list of available formats in the box right below it.  What I need is to be able to be able to switch the to one of the other Tag Formats listed without going into 'Project Setup' and changing the tag of all entities in that class.

 

This ability is also necessary for converting existing P&IDs.  I have hundreds of P&IDs that we would like to start converting to ACAD P&ID.  Some of the P&IDs are 15 years old and the original engineers were not always consistent in the equipment tag formats.  To be able to redraw the old P&IDs I would need to be able to switch equipment every so often to a 'legacy tag format', probably consisting of a single string, to include them without breaking the intelligence of the project.

 

To put it at a conceptual level:  ACAD P&ID is very good at enforcing consistency.  I need it to be better at accommodating existing inconsistencies.  

 

Product Support
jason.drew
Posts: 324
Registered: ‎06-17-2010
Message 4 of 10 (958 Views)

Re: How to switch to alternate equipment tag format?

01-03-2012 08:28 AM in reply to: tgwestbrook

Hello,

 

You can configure tag formats all the way down to individual P&ID class symbols, for example having a unique tag for just one type of tank. But currently there is no way to select a tag format while working on a project drawing without going into project setup and switching manually. Obviously that is a time consuming process.

 

One workaround would be to add a new property to the Equipment class level and call it something like, "Legacy Tag" and set it to be a string value. When you come across a symbol that requires the use of a non-standard tag you can key it into the properties window. Then setup a new annotation for equipment using the legacy tag value to place on the drawing as you would a standard equipment tag. That would avoid the task of going back into project setup to switch the tag format each time and you could still keep the tag data saved inside the project database (instead of just placing it as an unintelligent text annotation.)

 

The only drawback to this would be the project reports where you would have the regular "Tag" data field and separate "Legacy Tag" field. You would have to concatenate those two fields into one in Excel for a clean report.

 

Please let me know if you have any questions.

 

Thank you,

 

 

 



Jason Drew
Premium Support Specialist
Product Support
Autodesk, Inc.





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Employee
TomislavGolubovic
Posts: 545
Registered: ‎12-01-2010
Message 5 of 10 (939 Views)

Re: How to switch to alternate equipment tag format?

01-10-2012 02:57 PM in reply to: jason.drew

You can have different Tags for the equipment, you just have to add it to the Annotation Style for that equipment, or the whole class. Once you place the equipment and the default Tag is placed, you can then right click on the equipment, and select "Annotate" and a flyout will appear with some new styles.

 

If you can't find it, I can write up a how-to. Have a look at the attached image to see what I'm on about.



Tomislav Golubovic
Plant Solutions Engineer
Autodesk Australia / New Zealand
Autodesk, Inc.

Active Contributor
tgwestbrook
Posts: 29
Registered: ‎08-25-2010
Message 6 of 10 (910 Views)

Re: How to switch to alternate equipment tag format?

01-19-2012 01:19 PM in reply to: TomislavGolubovic

This also misses the point, as Annotation != Equipment Tag.  I could set the 'Equipment Tag' annotation to display almost anything, but it would not change the actual equipment tag, and would not check against other equipment in the project for duplicate tags.  

 

I want to avoid any work arounds that lessen the inherent intelligence of the  program.  Making the P&IDs look correct is not enough, I want the data behind it to be correct and consistent, even when the tag formats are not.

Employee
TomislavGolubovic
Posts: 545
Registered: ‎12-01-2010
Message 7 of 10 (907 Views)

Re: How to switch to alternate equipment tag format?

01-19-2012 01:58 PM in reply to: tgwestbrook

So is this what you are after? I added a property to the Tank class called "Service" and then users add that property to the tank, and the annotation style appends the Service to the end of the Equipment Tag.

 

1st image shows the different Tags

2nd and 3rd image shows the different annotation with the appended "Service" to the end of the tag.

 

 



Tomislav Golubovic
Plant Solutions Engineer
Autodesk Australia / New Zealand
Autodesk, Inc.

Active Contributor
tgwestbrook
Posts: 29
Registered: ‎08-25-2010
Message 8 of 10 (901 Views)

Re: How to switch to alternate equipment tag format?

01-19-2012 02:19 PM in reply to: TomislavGolubovic

Not quite.

 

I need to be able to swap the actual 'Equipment Tag'.  The annotation is in the end irrelevant, as it can be made to display any information.

 

I need the system to recognize TK-100 and TK-101-PPP as the actual 'Equipment Tag'.  With the the example you provided you could not enter:

 

TK-100

AND

TK-100-PPP

 

Which is what I need the system to do.

Employee
TomislavGolubovic
Posts: 545
Registered: ‎12-01-2010
Message 9 of 10 (898 Views)

Re: How to switch to alternate equipment tag format?

01-19-2012 02:25 PM in reply to: tgwestbrook

I think you're going to have to go down the 'separate equipment class' option you (reluctantly) stated before.

 

If you make the new classes, and then put them in the tool palette, then at least its a pick of one or the other.



Tomislav Golubovic
Plant Solutions Engineer
Autodesk Australia / New Zealand
Autodesk, Inc.

Active Contributor
tgwestbrook
Posts: 29
Registered: ‎08-25-2010
Message 10 of 10 (896 Views)

Re: How to switch to alternate equipment tag format?

01-19-2012 02:50 PM in reply to: TomislavGolubovic

We have decided to just not implement the software at all rather than use some wonky work around that will cause all kinds of problems and omissions later.  I desperately want our company to adopt P&ID as the main platform, but as is it seems that it is incompatible with our P&ID standards.

 

Our Parent company is pushing Autoplant very hard, and AutoPlant allows for alternate tag formats within an equipment class.

 

I can see no obvious reason that each class needs to be locked down to a single tag format.  Indeed, the program checks for duplicates across all equipment classes and tag formats, you can have multiple tag formats listed in the project manager for a single class.  I would assume that too high a premium was placed on enforcing consistency within a project, which has hurt the adaptability of the program.

 

All I need is a pull-down menu in the 'Assign Tag' window that list all the tag formats in the Class's Project Setup, which would allow you to switch between the predetermined formats.

 

I am loathed to think that I will have to wait another year, to the 2013 release, to get a (only possible, but not guaranteed) solution. -by which I will have lost the battle to adopt ACAD P3D.  Not when almost everything else is so much better than the alternative.

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