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Layer Key/System Customization

3 REPLIES 3
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Message 1 of 4
Anonymous
241 Views, 3 Replies

Layer Key/System Customization

Hi, Please allow me to describe our situation, our goals, our problem and then propose a "wishlist" for the future. I am part of a core team assigned to create a single company template that, as best as possible, conforms to our layer standards. Our firm has a large number of engineers across many diciplines. This template is for M,E,P,FP only. Our goal for this template is to make it as user friendly as possible so engineers do not have to set up systems or configure layer settings with every project, every drawing. We have identified the most commonly used systems or put another way, ones we do not wish to do without. We would like standard systems readily available in the drop down for engineers to select from and what they draw go to a standard layer with color and linetype preset. We want to do this with one template which we would roll-out to the users, versus having to roll out more than one template and add complexity. Our understanding of the way Autocad intended ABS to be used, we would setup all the systems and layer overrides at the system level. The layer key would contain the base layers (ie. M-Duct, P-Pipe, E-Cndt, M-Eqpm etc) and those layer settings. The System would override or add to the Layer Keys (ie. M-SYS-Duct or some variation). However, Autocad allows us to link the system to a layer key and preset colors/linetypes, etc. But this is not the original intent, not for EVERY system. The drawing itself does not contain every layer, but creates the layer from the key and system overrides when the system is used in the drawing. Absolutely love it Autocad, you are on the right track! The problem is, we cannot afford for every engineer, across every dicipline, to waste time with layer or key settings or adding systems, every time they create a new drawing. We have decided to create layer KEYS with layer settings preset for all of our systems, and to do this in one template. Sounds great and the work is 90% complete, however Autocad did not intend for the layer key to grow soo large. We currently have over 1200 keys and need to add roughly 450 more. With all the layer keys, it now takes 4-1/2 minutes to add a single key. There is no option to copy and paste or import. It has to be one at a time. With an 8-hour day it will take approximately 5 days non-stop or a month if we are to get any other work done. We have come to the realization that these additional keys slow down the duct add/pipe add/wire or conduit add dialog boxes. We feel this slowing is a far cry better than allowing users to set their own standards or configure systems every time. We will live with it for now till a better/acceptible solution presents itself. We want this post to address the layer key limitations, what are our options to add the remaining 450 keys? Is there a quicker way to add these keys? Can we use Visual Basic or a database editor/text editor? Should we continue to plug away? Finally, we want to propose a "Wish/suggestion." Please increase the layer key capabilities to handle more keys efficiently. Two, please make a layer key database outside the template, possibly in a subfolder with the MvParts catalog and other content. it would be in a location the drawing/template references to add layers as needed, but seperate from the drawing. Another suggestion would be to build in copy/paste and import/export functions to the layer key database. One suggestion would be to allow the system itself to define the layer settings (but this would still reside within the drawing), a good option nonetheless. Our last suggestion would be to add an off-drawing/template database for the systems and their settings. This could go in the same file as the layer key database or share database editors/functionality. Hope this helps. Please RSVP, we are going to grow old adding keys...LOL. Thank you in advance. Joshua
3 REPLIES 3
Message 2 of 4
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Thought of one other wish item which builds upon the last suggestion/post. If a company could store all their standard layers and their settings in the Layer Key database which is outside the drawing, Autodesk could add a feature to the Layer Manager allowing the user to use a "add layer" selection menu based on the external layer key database. I'm thinking a good example for the use of this feature would be when we create details, we don't necessarily add "objects" but often draw with lines & circles. The user could easily add a company standard layer and start drawing on it. I'm sure there would be other uses, but it still adds flexibility to the ABS software. Thanks. Joshua "Joshua P. Benoist" wrote in message news:4006f75e_2@statler... Hi, Please allow me to describe our situation, our goals, our problem and then propose a "wishlist" for the future. I am part of a core team assigned to create a single company template that, as best as possible, conforms to our layer standards. Our firm has a large number of engineers across many diciplines. This template is for M,E,P,FP only. Our goal for this template is to make it as user friendly as possible so engineers do not have to set up systems or configure layer settings with every project, every drawing. We have identified the most commonly used systems or put another way, ones we do not wish to do without. We would like standard systems readily available in the drop down for engineers to select from and what they draw go to a standard layer with color and linetype preset. We want to do this with one template which we would roll-out to the users, versus having to roll out more than one template and add complexity. Our understanding of the way Autocad intended ABS to be used, we would setup all the systems and layer overrides at the system level. The layer key would contain the base layers (ie. M-Duct, P-Pipe, E-Cndt, M-Eqpm etc) and those layer settings. The System would override or add to the Layer Keys (ie. M-SYS-Duct or some variation). However, Autocad allows us to link the system to a layer key and preset colors/linetypes, etc. But this is not the original intent, not for EVERY system. The drawing itself does not contain every layer, but creates the layer from the key and system overrides when the system is used in the drawing. Absolutely love it Autocad, you are on the right track! The problem is, we cannot afford for every engineer, across every dicipline, to waste time with layer or key settings or adding systems, every time they create a new drawing. We have decided to create layer KEYS with layer settings preset for all of our systems, and to do this in one template. Sounds great and the work is 90% complete, however Autocad did not intend for the layer key to grow soo large. We currently have over 1200 keys and need to add roughly 450 more. With all the layer keys, it now takes 4-1/2 minutes to add a single key. There is no option to copy and paste or import. It has to be one at a time. With an 8-hour day it will take approximately 5 days non-stop or a month if we are to get any other work done. We have come to the realization that these additional keys slow down the duct add/pipe add/wire or conduit add dialog boxes. We feel this slowing is a far cry better than allowing users to set their own standards or configure systems every time. We will live with it for now till a better/acceptible solution presents itself. We want this post to address the layer key limitations, what are our options to add the remaining 450 keys? Is there a quicker way to add these keys? Can we use Visual Basic or a database editor/text editor? Should we continue to plug away? Finally, we want to propose a "Wish/suggestion." Please increase the layer key capabilities to handle more keys efficiently. Two, please make a layer key database outside the template, possibly in a subfolder with the MvParts catalog and other content. it would be in a location the drawing/template references to add layers as needed, but seperate from the drawing. Another suggestion would be to build in copy/paste and import/export functions to the layer key database. One suggestion would be to allow the system itself to define the layer settings (but this would still reside within the drawing), a good option nonetheless. Our last suggestion would be to add an off-drawing/template database for the systems and their settings. This could go in the same file as the layer key database or share database editors/functionality. Hope this helps. Please RSVP, we are going to grow old adding keys...LOL. Thank you in advance. Joshua
Message 3 of 4
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Joshua, You can use VBA to define new layer keys. These keys could be added using an Excel spreadsheet that contains the layer key name, the layer name, the color, linetype etc, as a template. Check out the ActiveX help file for samples that show how to access and add to the layer keys. On the other hand... think about why you think you need all these layers? Is it just for control of color and linetype, if so, then just use the color and linetype overrides within the system for that. If it's for display control (turning systems on and off) then you could make new display reps for those cases, and let the systems turn themselves on and off. Another alternative is to set up the system styles in a template drawing, and instead of using layer keys, control the layer the objects are drawn on, in the display properties of the system. In the template drawing, you would have all the systems, with all the layers, linetypes and colors that you want. You would then assign a layer to use inside of the system. Then when a system was imported into a new drawing (drag and drop from the Style Manager, all the layers that are needed to draw that system would be added as well. Cheers, Peter Funk Autodesk, Inc.
Message 4 of 4
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Peter, Thank you for your response. At the end we will give a report of our efforts so others may benefit. If we have to add soo many layer keys again, we would use the VBA method with Excel...unless Autocad takes our prior "wish" suggestion to create a database. We would like to address your second suggestion. Using overrides within the system can considerably multiply the effort and complexity. The color & linetype can be setup within the system but the alternative to mapping directly to a layer is a hard override. If a change is needed, one has to find the exact system and display property override. This can get very complicated. One might argue then to map it, within the system, to a layer. When one has 1000 systems they map to a layer, you have to have 1000 predefined layers within Layer Manager, whether they are used or not. And then configure 1000 layers times 1-line, 2-line, Haloed Line, Model...times all the settings within Haloed Line, Model..etc. That gets complicated. It becomes a nightmare if one tried to do it within Display Manager with all the permutations there. The Layer Key is a beautiful thing. It is a one stop shop to map the system layers to and within the System setup, you select one key with a drop down menu. No overrides to worry about, no display settings, no hard coded or non-standard colors. We do like your last suggestion to store all the Layers in a Template and use Style Manager to import only what is needed. It solves the problem. It adds extra steps that in the end, engineers may just stop using the product if they had to do it every time. We were soo close to finishing and decided to continue. This would probably be an acceptable alternative. We would like to report the results of our efforts to add the Layer Keys. We are finished adding Keys and setting them up. Towards the end, it took 8 minutes just to add one Key. There was no performance delay in configuring the Keys once added. MORE IMPORTANTLY, there is absolutely NO PERFORMANCE LOSS on the Add Duct, Pipe, Schematic Line, Wire, Conduit, Cable Tray Dialog Boxes. An engineer can select a large variety of commonly used systems and not worry about layers, colors, linetypes, performance, Layer Manager Clutter or Display Settings. The less frustrating or complicated the template is, the more likely they will use the product and the better the Quality Control will be. Thank you for listening to us and for your response. JPB "Peter Funk - Autodesk, Inc." wrote in message news:401a7cfa$1_2@newsprd01... Joshua, You can use VBA to define new layer keys. These keys could be added using an Excel spreadsheet that contains the layer key name, the layer name, the color, linetype etc, as a template. Check out the ActiveX help file for samples that show how to access and add to the layer keys. On the other hand... think about why you think you need all these layers? Is it just for control of color and linetype, if so, then just use the color and linetype overrides within the system for that. If it's for display control (turning systems on and off) then you could make new display reps for those cases, and let the systems turn themselves on and off. Another alternative is to set up the system styles in a template drawing, and instead of using layer keys, control the layer the objects are drawn on, in the display properties of the system. In the template drawing, you would have all the systems, with all the layers, linetypes and colors that you want. You would then assign a layer to use inside of the system. Then when a system was imported into a new drawing (drag and drop from the Style Manager, all the layers that are needed to draw that system would be added as well. Cheers, Peter Funk Autodesk, Inc.

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